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Joel: unchained.

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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#421 » by Ferry Avenue » Sun Mar 6, 2022 4:33 pm

76ciology wrote:I hope its OK to ask this about Embiid.

Is embiid streaky as a superstar? Is there a big variance to his performance in terms of bad game vs good game or the frequency of his bad is higher?

Or Is it just optics (specifically, just my optics) with us being used to great bigs being consistent players or maybe Embiid’s body language is just super bad during off nights than the body language of other great bigs on their off nights?

Harden is here, our team can adjust its schemes with him to make us a better and more consistent team. I like how Harden can get Embiid to the line and easy baskets when Biid’s shots aren’t falling.


I do think that the variance is how much his bad game and good game affects the team because he anchors the team on both ends. That if steph has a bad game, draymond can still anchor the defense. If michael jordan has a bad game, pippen and rodman can anchor the defense.

If embiid has a bad game, sure Harden can anchor the offense. But hows the defense?

In the bigger scheme of things, I hope Embiid’s load of offense will decrease and focus more on being more energetic and less injury prone.

But what happens if Harden is not playing or who grabs the boards and anchor the defense when Embiid’s body language is bad? Do we play more DeAndre Jordan? Then we shift into a rox type team with a duo guard lead team and a big who is a lob threat?

Should Doc have sat Embiid during the game he played against the Heat rather than letting him play heavy minutes? If Im coaching, I would have sat Embiid for I dont like his energy and body language during the game. But it’s a players’ league, so I dont know if he has control over this.

I think Embiid has clearly shown a pattern over his career of what might be called “cumulative fatigue.”

The biggest tip-off of that is when he plays in an unanimated manner and doesn’t show any of his typical playfulness or fire. It’s like his personality and spirit completely disappear. I think that’s a symptom of accumulated fatigue.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#422 » by Ferry Avenue » Sun Mar 6, 2022 4:35 pm

Zumramania wrote:Doc has to have control over this. I know Embiid wants to play every possible game, but sometimes you gotta rest him. I just hope they condition him properly for the playoffs and that they have a plan for it, this should be the most important goal.

With Chicago coming up tomorrow and Brooklyn three days later, that definitely should’ve been a load management game for Embiid, without Harden.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#423 » by Bum Adebayo » Sun Mar 6, 2022 10:47 pm

Unfortunately, he cares too much about mickey mouse accolades like MVP, he gave it all these last months and now he is just done.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#424 » by Mik317 » Mon Mar 7, 2022 12:18 am

sometimes players have a bad stretch.

Jo is on one right now and is still putting up 25+ and 10r so boards lol.

He has shown the ability to be a quick learner and I am sure he will pick up new tactics now that Harden is here.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#425 » by SixthStreet » Mon Mar 7, 2022 12:41 am

I was all for Embiid trying to give it a go for MVP when we were Simmons less and had no chance in the playoffs but he and the braintrust seriously needs to re-evaluate. It's time to go win a championship and if sitting out 6-8 games the rest of the year helps his legs someone needs to tell him it's going to happen whether he wants to or not.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#426 » by eyeatoma » Mon Mar 7, 2022 1:50 am

THis might be his last chance to win MVP, given that Harden is on the team and Maxey is on the rise. I agree with what Ferry said about this being accumulated fatigue. You know when something is up with Jo as he is never unanimated. It's probably super frustrating to expend effort and not get the ball (Tobias), or be triple teamed because no one on the floor is an offensive threat. I do agree that he probably should have been sat for this game as it would have been a nice opportunity to get some extra rest for the next 2 games.

He also could be having a few bad nights, he's human. If this goes on for 2 weeks, then I'm concerned, at the moment, it's what it is. He does have a pattern of doing this in the past, and I'm not saying it's an issue, but he could be slightly streaky. The difference is, his high is best player in the world, and his low, is very impactful allstar.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#427 » by Negrodamus » Mon Mar 7, 2022 2:02 am

Sorry, I know there's the Philadelphia urge to see the world collapsing around us, but 3 games where Embiid is playing fine (not MVP, but not horrendous) isn't going to cause me to panic. This is the first time I can actually fully enjoy the team, so I'm going to enjoy the Sixers this year.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#428 » by the_process » Mon Mar 7, 2022 2:10 am

I have no problem with Embiid going for MVP. He does have to sit out the Chicago game, though. Probably another game or two down the stretch, as well.

Tell him to take the next 4 days away from the team. Glenn also has to do a better job managing his minutes.

No reason this team should not be the 2nd seed regardless.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#429 » by mjkvol » Mon Mar 7, 2022 2:22 am

Sit Embiid next Sunday, don't even have him fly to Orlando with the team, just take Fri-Sun and come back for DEN on Monday. Sit Harden the following Sunday against TOR, first game of a BtB. Perfect opportunities to give these guys a break.

I honestly don't care about the MVP. It would be nice, but it isn't worth running Embiid into the ground.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#430 » by eyeatoma » Mon Mar 7, 2022 3:00 am

mjkvol wrote:Sit Embiid next Sunday, don't even have him fly to Orlando with the team, just take Fri-Sun and come back for DEN on Monday. Sit Harden the following Sunday against TOR, first game of a BtB. Perfect opportunities to give these guys a break.

I honestly don't care about the MVP. It would be nice, but it isn't worth running Embiid into the ground.



Tell that to him, he is a very prideful man, and that is important to him. Also his next contract can be the biggest supermax possible if he wins MVP, or makes first team all NBA. Both of which he has not made yet, so there is a financial incentive as well.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#431 » by 76ciology » Mon Mar 7, 2022 3:05 am

Yes, we can win a championship while Embiid is going after the MVP. But I do think our chances will improve, if embiid is not going after the MVP.

Im not saying it’s exactly the same.. but Giannis’ maturity last season when he shifted his 100% focus on championship is a big factor for the Bucks championship.

But then, if I was jojo.. I’d also go after the MVP because it’s a once in a lifetime type award.

It will just hard for him to win a perennial winner of the MVP given it’s competition and his situation (health and championship)
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#432 » by eyeatoma » Mon Mar 7, 2022 4:32 am

Jokic just had a 46 point triple double in an OT win. The GB is going to be obnoxious.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#433 » by mjkvol » Mon Mar 7, 2022 11:13 am

eyeatoma wrote:
mjkvol wrote:Sit Embiid next Sunday, don't even have him fly to Orlando with the team, just take Fri-Sun and come back for DEN on Monday. Sit Harden the following Sunday against TOR, first game of a BtB. Perfect opportunities to give these guys a break.

I honestly don't care about the MVP. It would be nice, but it isn't worth running Embiid into the ground.



Tell that to him, he is a very prideful man, and that is important to him. Also his next contract can be the biggest supermax possible if he wins MVP, or makes first team all NBA. Both of which he has not made yet, so there is a financial incentive as well.


And I'd bet that if he won it once it would be something he had accomplished and all focus would move to winning a title or two from that point.

I just feel that a couple of games off might actually help his MVP case by making him more fresh.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#434 » by eyeatoma » Mon Mar 7, 2022 11:50 am

mjkvol wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
mjkvol wrote:Sit Embiid next Sunday, don't even have him fly to Orlando with the team, just take Fri-Sun and come back for DEN on Monday. Sit Harden the following Sunday against TOR, first game of a BtB. Perfect opportunities to give these guys a break.

I honestly don't care about the MVP. It would be nice, but it isn't worth running Embiid into the ground.



Tell that to him, he is a very prideful man, and that is important to him. Also his next contract can be the biggest supermax possible if he wins MVP, or makes first team all NBA. Both of which he has not made yet, so there is a financial incentive as well.


And I'd bet that if he won it once it would be something he had accomplished and all focus would move to winning a title or two from that point.

I just feel that a couple of games off might actually help his MVP case by making him more fresh.


Yup, you're right. Although I also think his focus is on the title as well. I think he has two goals this season, MVP and his first title.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#435 » by phillynative » Mon Mar 7, 2022 8:06 pm

Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:I hope its OK to ask this about Embiid.

Is embiid streaky as a superstar? Is there a big variance to his performance in terms of bad game vs good game or the frequency of his bad is higher?

Or Is it just optics (specifically, just my optics) with us being used to great bigs being consistent players or maybe Embiid’s body language is just super bad during off nights than the body language of other great bigs on their off nights?

Harden is here, our team can adjust its schemes with him to make us a better and more consistent team. I like how Harden can get Embiid to the line and easy baskets when Biid’s shots aren’t falling.


I do think that the variance is how much his bad game and good game affects the team because he anchors the team on both ends. That if steph has a bad game, draymond can still anchor the defense. If michael jordan has a bad game, pippen and rodman can anchor the defense.

If embiid has a bad game, sure Harden can anchor the offense. But hows the defense?

In the bigger scheme of things, I hope Embiid’s load of offense will decrease and focus more on being more energetic and less injury prone.

But what happens if Harden is not playing or who grabs the boards and anchor the defense when Embiid’s body language is bad? Do we play more DeAndre Jordan? Then we shift into a rox type team with a duo guard lead team and a big who is a lob threat?

Should Doc have sat Embiid during the game he played against the Heat rather than letting him play heavy minutes? If Im coaching, I would have sat Embiid for I dont like his energy and body language during the game. But it’s a players’ league, so I dont know if he has control over this.

I think Embiid has clearly shown a pattern over his career of what might be called “cumulative fatigue.”

The biggest tip-off of that is when he plays in an unanimated manner and doesn’t show any of his typical playfulness or fire. It’s like his personality and spirit completely disappear. I think that’s a symptom of accumulated fatigue.


I have a different theory. I think hes just a player and plus because of his size that gets rusty fast when hes not on the floor for a few games. When he started the season he was rusty, when he came back from covid he was rusty and now after the allstar break and new teammates and new roles hes a little out of rhythm and a little rusty. I expect once he gets his rhythm back n continue to adapt to Harden we will see his play rise again.

Embiid is a very aware player im sure he knows how hes playing and what other guys are doing out there and the implications it has on the MVP race. He has to finish the season strong but he also knows he has to adjust to Harden as well. Its not the easiest task for a big man who has never played with anyone like a Harden and who put in the work to put the whole team on his back. Now he has to learn when to be aggressive when not to be agressive, when or who to give the ball to, when to pick n pop or roll. When to spread the floor, when to post and when to isolate.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#436 » by DHM » Mon Mar 7, 2022 8:20 pm

phillynative wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:I hope its OK to ask this about Embiid.

Is embiid streaky as a superstar? Is there a big variance to his performance in terms of bad game vs good game or the frequency of his bad is higher?

Or Is it just optics (specifically, just my optics) with us being used to great bigs being consistent players or maybe Embiid’s body language is just super bad during off nights than the body language of other great bigs on their off nights?

Plus after the first three games with James Harden teams were playing a lot of zone and Doc still can’t figure out how to solve the zone. If I was playing the 76ers I would play zone 90% of the time.

Harden is here, our team can adjust its schemes with him to make us a better and more consistent team. I like how Harden can get Embiid to the line and easy baskets when Biid’s shots aren’t falling.


I do think that the variance is how much his bad game and good game affects the team because he anchors the team on both ends. That if steph has a bad game, draymond can still anchor the defense. If michael jordan has a bad game, pippen and rodman can anchor the defense.

If embiid has a bad game, sure Harden can anchor the offense. But hows the defense?

In the bigger scheme of things, I hope Embiid’s load of offense will decrease and focus more on being more energetic and less injury prone.

But what happens if Harden is not playing or who grabs the boards and anchor the defense when Embiid’s body language is bad? Do we play more DeAndre Jordan? Then we shift into a rox type team with a duo guard lead team and a big who is a lob threat?

Should Doc have sat Embiid during the game he played against the Heat rather than letting him play heavy minutes? If Im coaching, I would have sat Embiid for I dont like his energy and body language during the game. But it’s a players’ league, so I dont know if he has control over this.

I think Embiid has clearly shown a pattern over his career of what might be called “cumulative fatigue.”

The biggest tip-off of that is when he plays in an unanimated manner and doesn’t show any of his typical playfulness or fire. It’s like his personality and spirit completely disappear. I think that’s a symptom of accumulated fatigue.


I have a different theory. I think hes just a player and plus because of his size that gets rusty fast when hes not on the floor for a few games. When he started the season he was rusty, when he came back from covid he was rusty and now after the allstar break and new teammates and new roles hes a little out of rhythm and a little rusty. I expect once he gets his rhythm back n continue to adapt to Harden we will see his play rise again.

Embiid is a very aware player im sure he knows how hes playing and what other guys are doing out there and the implications it has on the MVP race. He has to finish the season strong but he also knows he has to adjust to Harden as well. Its not the easiest task for a big man who has never played with anyone like a Harden and who put in the work to put the whole team on his back. Now he has to learn when to be aggressive when not to be agressive, when or who to give the ball to, when to pick n pop or roll. When to spread the floor, when to post and when to isolate.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#437 » by Ferry Avenue » Mon Mar 7, 2022 9:28 pm

phillynative wrote:
Ferry Avenue wrote:
76ciology wrote:I hope its OK to ask this about Embiid.

Is embiid streaky as a superstar? Is there a big variance to his performance in terms of bad game vs good game or the frequency of his bad is higher?

Or Is it just optics (specifically, just my optics) with us being used to great bigs being consistent players or maybe Embiid’s body language is just super bad during off nights than the body language of other great bigs on their off nights?

Harden is here, our team can adjust its schemes with him to make us a better and more consistent team. I like how Harden can get Embiid to the line and easy baskets when Biid’s shots aren’t falling.


I do think that the variance is how much his bad game and good game affects the team because he anchors the team on both ends. That if steph has a bad game, draymond can still anchor the defense. If michael jordan has a bad game, pippen and rodman can anchor the defense.

If embiid has a bad game, sure Harden can anchor the offense. But hows the defense?

In the bigger scheme of things, I hope Embiid’s load of offense will decrease and focus more on being more energetic and less injury prone.

But what happens if Harden is not playing or who grabs the boards and anchor the defense when Embiid’s body language is bad? Do we play more DeAndre Jordan? Then we shift into a rox type team with a duo guard lead team and a big who is a lob threat?

Should Doc have sat Embiid during the game he played against the Heat rather than letting him play heavy minutes? If Im coaching, I would have sat Embiid for I dont like his energy and body language during the game. But it’s a players’ league, so I dont know if he has control over this.

I think Embiid has clearly shown a pattern over his career of what might be called “cumulative fatigue.”

The biggest tip-off of that is when he plays in an unanimated manner and doesn’t show any of his typical playfulness or fire. It’s like his personality and spirit completely disappear. I think that’s a symptom of accumulated fatigue.


I have a different theory. I think hes just a player and plus because of his size that gets rusty fast when hes not on the floor for a few games. When he started the season he was rusty, when he came back from covid he was rusty and now after the allstar break and new teammates and new roles hes a little out of rhythm and a little rusty. I expect once he gets his rhythm back n continue to adapt to Harden we will see his play rise again.

Embiid is a very aware player im sure he knows how hes playing and what other guys are doing out there and the implications it has on the MVP race. He has to finish the season strong but he also knows he has to adjust to Harden as well. Its not the easiest task for a big man who has never played with anyone like a Harden and who put in the work to put the whole team on his back. Now he has to learn when to be aggressive when not to be agressive, when or who to give the ball to, when to pick n pop or roll. When to spread the floor, when to post and when to isolate.

Of course none of us knows what's really going on because we're not in the locker room or inside these guys' heads, but what you're saying above doesn't incorporate the lulls he has in his animation on the court. He has distinct periods in which he's highly animated on the court, followed by distinct periods in which he's almost completely unanimated.

If the variation in his performance we're talking about were explained exclusively by situational factors, he would remain animated despite them. There's no reason why a guy adjusting to Harden or who is rusty should become suddenly completely unanimated. Where did his personality go? Someone's personality can easily remain intact despite the situational variation you're talking about.

Whatever explains the variation in his performance has to incorporate the change in his animation on the court as well, because there is distinct and regular variation in his animation on the the court that covaries with his performance.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#438 » by Mik317 » Tue Mar 8, 2022 12:10 am

i will say this....

who was the last MVP to also win a chip the year they became MVP?

Steph? Who low key was ass in the finals, lol.

its hard to do both.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#439 » by elchengue20 » Tue Mar 8, 2022 2:21 am

Mik317 wrote:i will say this....

who was the last MVP to also win a chip the year they became MVP?

Steph? Who low key was ass in the finals, lol.

its hard to do both.


Yep, after you win MVP the pressure gets pretty big in the Playoffs to win it all. Expectations and hype get a level higher than they normally do.

It could actually be a lot better for our chances if Embiid doesnt win MVP and goes to the Playoffs with lower expextations/pressure and a chip on his shoulder.

Its understandable tho if he wants to win it, and there isnt much the team can do about it.
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Re: Joel: unchained. 

Post#440 » by Negrodamus » Tue Mar 8, 2022 1:54 pm

Seems like Embiid is cooked. Sorry guys.

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