James Harden's Game Will Age Exceptionally Well

[HotelVitale]

Love al the Philly fans who started to believe that Harden is a transcendent playmaker the moment he joined their team

Weird flex; does anyone not think he's a top-shelf playmaker?

[MrBigShot]

Harden has never been reliant on athleticism. He gets to the rim because he's got an excellent handle and uses his body well. Even late into his career he can thrive in the pick and roll. Offensively, he is a basketball savant.

[mediocrityrules]

Pity his hamstrings won't

[Clay Davis]

Love al the Philly fans who started to believe that Harden is a transcendent playmaker the moment he joined their team

Weird flex; does anyone not think he's a top-shelf playmaker?

I think he's a really good and elite playmaker but I'd reserve the word "transcendent" for people like CP3, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, etc.

[DroseReturnChi]

Love al the Philly fans who started to believe that Harden is a transcendent playmaker the moment he joined their team

Weird flex; does anyone not think he's a top-shelf playmaker?

I think he's a really good and elite playmaker but I'd reserve the word "transcendent" for people like CP3, Larry Bird, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, etc.

pretty much this. harden doesnt really have some kind of legacy and he infamously made cp3 a bum i thought he was retiring.
he is one of those common high usage guys that declines severely with age. people were saying beal was the best sg when he put up over 30 ppg and look what happened. he wont be the same caliber as cp3 who never relied on speed, much less than lebron.

morey only got harden because he semi guarantees a title for next 2 yrs not because he is a perennial all star at age 40. even embiid loved beal over harden and thats a no brainer considering age difference between joel/beal and harden. long term, no one really like harden which is why nets pulled the trigger and banked on simmons.

[Pennebaker]

His game may age well but he still needs to improve his game if he wants to be a champion.

[JN61]

No player currently in the league will be productive 2nd option on a championship team as 39 year old.

Lebron is 37 years old and would be in the MVP discussion if AD was healthy and we swapped Westbrook for a borderline All-Star that fits (ie. Fred Van-Vleet). Insert 1 starter caliber 3 & D wing and things should be much different. All that to say Lebron is on track to still be one of the top players in a couple seasons (39 years old) barring any significant injury.

That is a lot of ifs. You also underestimate how hard it's to play as 39 year old.

[Buckets22]

I doubt it, Harden must take his diet/lifestyle seriously if he wants to play at high level when he is Lebrons age. That won't happen.

[Up-And-Coming]

No player currently in the league will be productive 2nd option on a championship team as 39 year old.

Lebron is 37 years old and would be in the MVP discussion if AD was healthy and we swapped Westbrook for a borderline All-Star that fits (ie. Fred Van-Vleet). Insert 1 starter caliber 3 & D wing and things should be much different. All that to say Lebron is on track to still be one of the top players in a couple seasons (39 years old) barring any significant injury.

That is a lot of ifs. You also underestimate how hard it's to play as 39 year old.

The only main "if" is "if" Lebron can refrain from sustaining a significant injury. He's still good enough to be the #1 option on a championship team and should still be good enough to be a very good #2 if he experiences natural physical decline the next couple seasons (age 38 and 39). Lebron is an anomaly though but he should be the exception to the original quote.

[cupcakesnake]

We're still waiting to see if Harden's hamstring issues were a blip on the radar or a permanent sign of decline (4 games in Phili have been tremendous but too small a sample for a meaningful reaction). Harden has been such an iron man for so long that we all kind of went crazy over the injury clearly reducing his abilities for a while.

Regardless, I think we've learned something this year about how Harden's game will age and what kind of context he'll need to continue to be effective. For a decade now, Harden has been arguably the most potent dual-wielder of perimeter fire power and rim pressure. We've seen him murder matchups with the step back, and also obliterate defenses in the pick and roll, going to the rim for the layup/the lob, the kick to the right corner. In Brooklyn, he was tasked with being the primary source of rim pressure. He was the only one adept at generating efficient kick out and lobs out of the pick & roll (Kyrie isn't as good at this and also just wasn't playing. Durant scores on an island.) Harden's hamstring injury zapped his first step. He wasn't beginning his plays with a blow by, and he had to work way harder to do his thing (at a much less efficient level). Then he rolls into Phili (gets a little break and is probably healthier) where he isn't the main source of rim pressure. He's not partnered with one of the biggest and bestest sources of rim pressure in Joel "Troelle" Embiid. Now the rim pressure part of Harden's game is complimentary rather that crucial to the offense. He gets to be more of a point guard, and attack the rim with more of an advantage (rather than being required to give everyone else the advantage like he was in Brooklyn). I basically think that if he stays partnered with someone like Embiid, his game has a lot more lasting power.

I disagree with anyone in this thread talking about how Harden doesn't need the ball in his hands to impact the offense. While he is a great shooter... catch & shoot is just not part of his game (5.8% of his looks this year, and you have to go all the way back to 2017 to find a season where it was more than 6% of his shots). Every year he takes less shots off 0 dribbles (all these stats are NBA.com btw). When Harden isn't initiating offense, he's doing next to nothing. He only shoots above the break 3s, layups, and floaters, and is basically religious about his shot selection. It's a good thing most of the time but makes him inflexible with what defenses give him or shots his teammates could theoretically create for him. He never takes corner 3s and almost never goes to the corners at all. He doesn't cut (he has zero tracked field goals of the cutting variety via NBA.com), he doesn't post up (zero tracked turnarounds or hooks). Looking at his playtracking he's the most rigid high volume guys in terms of shot selection. There's nothing to his game that's off-ball. One of the worst off-ball guys in the league on offense and defense. Saying anything else just seems like wishful fan thinking.

[gmoney411]

It really depends on how much he is willing to adapt his game with age. If he's willing to focus on facilitating and being in the right place when he doesn't have the ball he should be a high level player for years to come.

[Ayt]

His body will fall apart well before then.

[SelfishPlayer]

We're still waiting to see if Harden's hamstring issues were a blip on the radar or a permanent sign of decline (4 games in Phili have been tremendous but too small a sample for a meaningful reaction). Harden has been such an iron man for so long that we all kind of went crazy over the injury clearly reducing his abilities for a while.

Regardless, I think we've learned something this year about how Harden's game will age and what kind of context he'll need to continue to be effective. For a decade now, Harden has been arguably the most potent dual-wielder of perimeter fire power and rim pressure. We've seen him murder matchups with the step back, and also obliterate defenses in the pick and roll, going to the rim for the layup/the lob, the kick to the right corner. In Brooklyn, he was tasked with being the primary source of rim pressure. He was the only one adept at generating efficient kick out and lobs out of the pick & roll (Kyrie isn't as good at this and also just wasn't playing. Durant scores on an island.) Harden's hamstring injury zapped his first step. He wasn't beginning his plays with a blow by, and he had to work way harder to do his thing (at a much less efficient level). Then he rolls into Phili (gets a little break and is probably healthier) where he isn't the main source of rim pressure. He's not partnered with one of the biggest and bestest sources of rim pressure in Joel "Troelle" Embiid. Now the rim pressure part of Harden's game is complimentary rather that crucial to the offense. He gets to be more of a point guard, and attack the rim with more of an advantage (rather than being required to give everyone else the advantage like he was in Brooklyn). I basically think that if he stays partnered with someone like Embiid, his game has a lot more lasting power.

I disagree with anyone in this thread talking about how Harden doesn't need the ball in his hands to impact the offense. While he is a great shooter... catch & shoot is just not part of his game (5.8% of his looks this year, and you have to go all the way back to 2017 to find a season where it was more than 6% of his shots). Every year he takes less shots off 0 dribbles (all these stats are NBA.com btw). When Harden isn't initiating offense, he's doing next to nothing. He only shoots above the break 3s, layups, and floaters, and is basically religious about his shot selection. It's a good thing most of the time but makes him inflexible with what defenses give him or shots his teammates could theoretically create for him. He never takes corner 3s and almost never goes to the corners at all. He doesn't cut (he has zero tracked field goals of the cutting variety via NBA.com), he doesn't post up (zero tracked turnarounds or hooks). Looking at his playtracking he's the most rigid high volume guys in terms of shot selection. There's nothing to his game that's off-ball. One of the worst off-ball guys in the league on offense and defense. Saying anything else just seems like wishful fan thinking.

If all it took for Harden to get wide open three point attempts was for him to run to the corner like some simple ordinary role player, the organizations Harden has played for would have been spamming that rather than what Harden has been doing as a superstar. You haven't unlocked a Harden weekness by saying that he hasn't been asked to perform anything like a role player in years. Harden can easily dumb his game down and wait for the action to come to him instead of initiating it.

[cupcakesnake]

We're still waiting to see if Harden's hamstring issues were a blip on the radar or a permanent sign of decline (4 games in Phili have been tremendous but too small a sample for a meaningful reaction). Harden has been such an iron man for so long that we all kind of went crazy over the injury clearly reducing his abilities for a while.

Regardless, I think we've learned something this year about how Harden's game will age and what kind of context he'll need to continue to be effective. For a decade now, Harden has been arguably the most potent dual-wielder of perimeter fire power and rim pressure. We've seen him murder matchups with the step back, and also obliterate defenses in the pick and roll, going to the rim for the layup/the lob, the kick to the right corner. In Brooklyn, he was tasked with being the primary source of rim pressure. He was the only one adept at generating efficient kick out and lobs out of the pick & roll (Kyrie isn't as good at this and also just wasn't playing. Durant scores on an island.) Harden's hamstring injury zapped his first step. He wasn't beginning his plays with a blow by, and he had to work way harder to do his thing (at a much less efficient level). Then he rolls into Phili (gets a little break and is probably healthier) where he isn't the main source of rim pressure. He's not partnered with one of the biggest and bestest sources of rim pressure in Joel "Troelle" Embiid. Now the rim pressure part of Harden's game is complimentary rather that crucial to the offense. He gets to be more of a point guard, and attack the rim with more of an advantage (rather than being required to give everyone else the advantage like he was in Brooklyn). I basically think that if he stays partnered with someone like Embiid, his game has a lot more lasting power.

I disagree with anyone in this thread talking about how Harden doesn't need the ball in his hands to impact the offense. While he is a great shooter... catch & shoot is just not part of his game (5.8% of his looks this year, and you have to go all the way back to 2017 to find a season where it was more than 6% of his shots). Every year he takes less shots off 0 dribbles (all these stats are NBA.com btw). When Harden isn't initiating offense, he's doing next to nothing. He only shoots above the break 3s, layups, and floaters, and is basically religious about his shot selection. It's a good thing most of the time but makes him inflexible with what defenses give him or shots his teammates could theoretically create for him. He never takes corner 3s and almost never goes to the corners at all. He doesn't cut (he has zero tracked field goals of the cutting variety via NBA.com), he doesn't post up (zero tracked turnarounds or hooks). Looking at his playtracking he's the most rigid high volume guys in terms of shot selection. There's nothing to his game that's off-ball. One of the worst off-ball guys in the league on offense and defense. Saying anything else just seems like wishful fan thinking.

If all it took for Harden to get wide open three point attempts was for him to run to the corner like some simple ordinary role player, the organizations Harden has played for would have been spamming that rather than what Harden has been doing as a superstar. You haven't unlocked a Harden weekness by saying that he hasn't been asked to perform anything like a role player in years. Harden can easily dumb his game down and wait for the action to come to him instead of initiating it.

I'm not comparing Harden to role players.
Compared to other big scoring, big creating stars, James Harden does less off-ball than anyone not named Russell Westbrook. Even guys like Luka and Trae have some cutting and catch and shoot attempts to their game. Harden has virtually none. He's a bizarre outlier.

I'm not demanding Harden shoot some corner 3s or saying that he isn't a great offensive player. He's absolutely one of the best offensive player in the league (and of all-time). But he does nothing off-ball and there's no shoo-ing that under the rug. He's a historically outlier as an off-ball player, compared to every other offensive great ever. I just don't really get why Harden doesn't move into open space more often (as a cutter or when he's spotting up) or why he walks out of the possession when giving the ball up to another creator. Harden and Westbrook have always been a bit weird with their absolute refusal to do anything off-ball (at least Russ will rebound). Neither of them screen, cut, or spot up.

He doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't really get when fans push back so hard on obvious weaknesses. Every players has em!

[SelfishPlayer]

We're still waiting to see if Harden's hamstring issues were a blip on the radar or a permanent sign of decline (4 games in Phili have been tremendous but too small a sample for a meaningful reaction). Harden has been such an iron man for so long that we all kind of went crazy over the injury clearly reducing his abilities for a while.

Regardless, I think we've learned something this year about how Harden's game will age and what kind of context he'll need to continue to be effective. For a decade now, Harden has been arguably the most potent dual-wielder of perimeter fire power and rim pressure. We've seen him murder matchups with the step back, and also obliterate defenses in the pick and roll, going to the rim for the layup/the lob, the kick to the right corner. In Brooklyn, he was tasked with being the primary source of rim pressure. He was the only one adept at generating efficient kick out and lobs out of the pick & roll (Kyrie isn't as good at this and also just wasn't playing. Durant scores on an island.) Harden's hamstring injury zapped his first step. He wasn't beginning his plays with a blow by, and he had to work way harder to do his thing (at a much less efficient level). Then he rolls into Phili (gets a little break and is probably healthier) where he isn't the main source of rim pressure. He's not partnered with one of the biggest and bestest sources of rim pressure in Joel "Troelle" Embiid. Now the rim pressure part of Harden's game is complimentary rather that crucial to the offense. He gets to be more of a point guard, and attack the rim with more of an advantage (rather than being required to give everyone else the advantage like he was in Brooklyn). I basically think that if he stays partnered with someone like Embiid, his game has a lot more lasting power.

I disagree with anyone in this thread talking about how Harden doesn't need the ball in his hands to impact the offense. While he is a great shooter... catch & shoot is just not part of his game (5.8% of his looks this year, and you have to go all the way back to 2017 to find a season where it was more than 6% of his shots). Every year he takes less shots off 0 dribbles (all these stats are NBA.com btw). When Harden isn't initiating offense, he's doing next to nothing. He only shoots above the break 3s, layups, and floaters, and is basically religious about his shot selection. It's a good thing most of the time but makes him inflexible with what defenses give him or shots his teammates could theoretically create for him. He never takes corner 3s and almost never goes to the corners at all. He doesn't cut (he has zero tracked field goals of the cutting variety via NBA.com), he doesn't post up (zero tracked turnarounds or hooks). Looking at his playtracking he's the most rigid high volume guys in terms of shot selection. There's nothing to his game that's off-ball. One of the worst off-ball guys in the league on offense and defense. Saying anything else just seems like wishful fan thinking.

If all it took for Harden to get wide open three point attempts was for him to run to the corner like some simple ordinary role player, the organizations Harden has played for would have been spamming that rather than what Harden has been doing as a superstar. You haven't unlocked a Harden weekness by saying that he hasn't been asked to perform anything like a role player in years. Harden can easily dumb his game down and wait for the action to come to him instead of initiating it.

I'm not comparing Harden to role players.
Compared to other big scoring, big creating stars, James Harden does less off-ball than anyone not named Russell Westbrook. Even guys like Luka and Trae have some cutting and catch and shoot attempts to their game. Harden has virtually none. He's a bizarre outlier.

I'm not demanding Harden shoot some corner 3s or saying that he isn't a great offensive player. He's absolutely one of the best offensive player in the league (and of all-time). But he does nothing off-ball and there's no shoo-ing that under the rug. He's a historically outlier as an off-ball player, compared to every other offensive great ever. I just don't really get why Harden doesn't move into open space more often (as a cutter or when he's spotting up) or why he walks out of the possession when giving the ball up to another creator. Harden and Westbrook have always been a bit weird with their absolute refusal to do anything off-ball (at least Russ will rebound). Neither of them screen, cut, or spot up.

He doesn't have to be perfect, but I don't really get when fans push back so hard on obvious weaknesses. Every players has em!

So Harden is wide open for the spot up assist?

[Vampirate]

Late in players career, height, availability and strength are the best attributes that age gracefully.

[canada_dry]

Eh. Its not just his game style thats dubious in regards to aging well.

Its also lifestyle. U live that life and it catches up to you QUICK.

Shout out allen Iverson.

Theres a CHANCE what ur saying turns out true to an extent (idk about 39, but mid 30s fine). But i wouldn't bet on it.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Edrees]

Thread was posted as he has to sit a back to back to nurse a nagging hamstring injury. He's not gonna get healthier as he gets older.

[dribble1614]

harden has a few more years of superstardom and definitely after age 35 a few more seasons of all-star level play if he stays healthy. if chris paul can be a top 3 pg approaching age 37, harden can absolutely do at least that much given his equal skillset / athleticism but significant height advantage.

sixers definitely have a 4-5 year window for titles, not just a few years.

[ajones9219]

He only looks slow relative to his size. He uses quickness and strength to draw fouls. This is a cold takes exposed thread if i've ever seen it