Lakers blame Pie, Fans divided but one is unscathed?

[TylersLakers]

I hope the rumor regarding Omar Wilkes is true. I know nothing about him or his basketball philosophy but Rich Paul doesn’t hire clowns to be head of his basketball operations department.

Agreed. I also think executives just don't like dealing with Rob and they know he won't draw a line in the sand and he'll pay a premium for everything he wants.

AD trade: Payed 150 cents on the dollar. Why include Josh Hart? Why include the swaps? Lonzo Ball, Ingram and 2 1st round picks wasn't enough?

Westbrook: totally overpaid. Why did they give up a 1st round pick? Who else was trading for Westbrook? He had privately asked for a trade to only the Lakers.

[LAKESHOW]

I'm laying off Jeanie. She said go ahead Pelinka. Go ahead Bron. Go ahead AD. I give you free reign. I give you the Freedom to make moves and bring our team success this past off-season. And that's all you can ask from an owner. Free Reign. And what did those guys do with that freedom given to them from ownership??
THOSE IDIOTS CHOSE WESTBROOK!

[Ball so hard]

Just what we need… another person that’s connected to Klutch. It’s like we sold our souls to Klutch. This is a massive risk. I’d guess this rumor was leaked by Klutch.

[thomas1897]

The Reality Check For 2022 Lakers should also include players need to be focused on their conditioning and readiness to perform at the highest level and let the management get the right combination of players who fit in with the skill set and the nucleus of players currently with the team. This is not about neighborhood basketball; this is about the NBA. Players should be able to provide their opinions but the management and coaching staff should be final option.

[tamaraw08]

I used some recent reports as a jumping off point to write about the message the Lakers have been sending to the NBA for most of this season and even before it: If you are not a star, we think we can replace you or get someone just as good for less money.

“Who could coach Westbrook at this point?” Stein said. “This is on the Lakers too. They were in the mix to try and get Scotty Brooks, and Scotty Brooks ended up on Portland’s staff. I think Frank Vogel wanted Scotty Brooks on his staff, and I think Scotty Brooks would have been a very useful voice for the Lakers to have if you’re going to put so much on Westbrook to try and go somewhere this season.”
From silverscreenandroll Harrison Faigen

[stan francisco]

1) Jeanie Buss and ownership (40%):

- They set the budget every season. It was very clear the Lakers had a budget and they weren't willing to go over it. Cost them Caruso.
- They've set up the leadership (Jeanie, Rob, Rambii, Klutch)

2) Rob Pelinka (25%)

- He had the power to say no to LeBron and AD with the trade for Russ and go with a different approach which would have been: Trade Kuzma and Harrell for Buddy Hield, re-sign Caruso, re-sign Schroder on a 1 year deal (all of this reported by Brian Windhorst). They also would've had KCP and a 1st round pick. Add in Carmelo, Monk, Howard, and Jeff Green on the tax-payers MLE and you have a roster of:

Caruso/Schroder
KCP/Monk/Cam Thomas
Hield/Jeff Green
LeBron/Melo
Davis/Howard

- He had the power and he didn't do it. Instead, he went the Klutch route. Re-sign THT, sign Nunn, do what AD and LeBron (Klutch) wanted and trade for Russ.

3) LeBron James/AD (20%):

Their decision to get in bed with Russ and push for the trade to happen is 10%. The remaining 10% is injury and when they were healthy, lethargic play. Because if LeBron and AD were each healthy and each only missed 10-15 games (reasonable), we'd still be comfortably in a Top 6 seed. I bet we'd be in the Utah/Dallas/Denver grouping.

4) Frank Vogel, Coaching Staff (15%)

The coaching has been flat out bad. Like, really, really, really bad. That's it. The amount of "good" concepts we run offensively is a joke. The defensive scheme and Frank wanting to use drop coverage when Melo or LeBron is at the 5 is incompetence. He should be switching EVERYTHING. DeAndre Jordan getting ANY minutes at the start of the season when we actually had a healthy LeBron and AD was comical in the moment. Playing Avery Bradley the way he has.. that's been comical. I also hated his approach in pre-season with LeBron/Russ/AD. The three of them played in how many games together? 1? For a brand new group, those guys should be playing a lot together - even if it's just 14-18 minutes in a first half and letting the reserves finish the game. But he set a terrible precedent to begin the season and that to me is one of the biggest reasons for the lethargic play.

He's been dealt a very bad hand especially factoring in the way he wants to play. But boy oh boy - he hasn't helped himself one bit.

I say Rob stays and Vogel stays. Jeanie backs off and let’s Rob decide.

That roster of Rob’s minus Schroeder would’ve kicked ass.

[thomas1897]

Is there a solution? Can you win another NBA Championship with Lebron & AD? Can Lebron win by himself? Can AD do it an entire season healthy at his young age? Can the management come up with any remedy for Hollywood entertainment scenarios without having team members participating? Can Future Laker teams spend more time training and practicing? Can Laker team membership compete with one objective to win a title? Therefore i recommend these questions to the Laker Nation for answers and solutions. Payment Value and Production who covers all costs relating to the Lakers?

[Kilroy]

It's weird though... I look at the teams we're playing, that are blowing us out, and I just can't get my head around how that's happening... On paper, do they really have that much more talent than us? Or, are we, even with AD out, severely under-performing...

Personally, I think we should be winning more games than we are... I don't think we're a deep playoff threat no matter what, but I also don't see how we're a sub-500 team either...
So if the roster should be good enough to perform better, what is it? It kind of has to be Vogel.

Do I think replacing him at this stage of the season will turn us around? No... But I also think he's not doing as good a job as he could be.

Frankly, I think the best lineups we had on our championship run, were the ones he limited substitutions and kind of stayed out of the way.
His substitutions and rotations always seemed distracting, and he's more likely to kill a run than he is to start one with his adjustments.

IDK... I've said all along that I didn't think the problems we're having right now are his fault... And they aren't... Trading for Westbrook was the nail in the coffin for our championship runs... Most of the roster moves for the last 3 years have been questionable to bad, to be honest.
So he kind of has a **** sandwich to deal with... That said, I also think a coach who better understood this roster and the strengths/weaknesses of the players, might have been able to be more successful.

If they want to keep him through the season, fine... But I think it's time to try a different system too... I just have no idea who that is at this point... To me, all the coaches are about the same these days.

[thomas1897]

Is there a solution? Can you win another NBA Championship with Lebron & AD? Can Lebron win by himself? Can AD do it an entire season healthy at his young age? Can the management come up with any remedy for Hollywood entertainment scenarios without having team members participating? Can Future Laker teams spend more time training and practicing? Can Laker team membership compete with one objective to win a title? Therefore i recommend these questions to the Laker Nation for answers and solutions. Payment Value and Production who covers all costs relating to the Lakers? Does the Laker Nation?

[thomas1897]

Majic Johnson should be more active with this team because he knew how to win from the beginning his first season. Now he needs to step up and out and be on this team including an individual who displays contempt for discipline and authority. Majic please step forward and show accountability to this team. The individual who is responsibile for not giving 110 percent and leadership.

[LAKESHOW]

One indicator of past championship teams, including ours, is Defensive speed. Teams can run out and challenge shooters, and cover court space. We lost that with our youth. KCP, Kuz and Caruso hustle and cover ground at their age. Then AD can cover with his length. Then Bron can just rover. We ain't set up for that

[tamaraw08]

One indicator of past championship teams, including ours, is Defensive speed. Teams can run out and challenge shooters, and cover court space. We lost that with our youth. KCP, Kuz and Caruso hustle and cover ground at their age. Then AD can cover with his length. Then Bron can just rover. We ain't set up for that

You are right but you are leaving out another attribute of these players ... Size, Kuzma is 6-9, Caruso and KCP are both 6-5.
Melo has the size to replace Kuz but doesn't have the foot speed and energy of Kyle.
Russ and Monk are both 6-2, they might have the speed to cover and rotate but taller shooters like Kennard, Morris etc are shooting over them, forcing Vogel to put in Ariza who has the size but then again don't have the foot speed to rotate.
Again the Lakers had the choice to resign Caruso but decided that they don't want to pay the tax bec Jeannie has put a lot of limits on how much they can spend.
Then the issue of disconnect bet Rob and FRank. Pelinka who loves to announce to everyone that he consults with Lebron with roster construction, hires a very good shooter in Ellington who is shooting 39% but Vogel doesn't like to use him even though the whole team is struggling from the perimeter. If Frank hates him, then Rob should have went after another player who can help this team.

[LAKESHOW]

Yup, I had mentioned in a previous thread. Pelinka went and got all these guys. Spent summer workouts and camp together. Practiced with Bron and team.. And then when a guy came available, who did not do camp. Who Did not do workouts. Who Did not even practice! Frank immediately started Avery Bradley the next Day, without even unpacking his luggage.
That was not mentioned at all by anyone, but I was correct in the fact it told a story that Frank did give a sh** about Pelinkas moves and trades.

[TylersLakers]

I don't know where to put this but my Apple watch just sent me a notification saying "WSH Offered 3 1st Rounders for Russ" and I was like, "WTF WHY DIDN'T THE LAKERS TAKE IT!?!?!?!"

5 seconds later I realized it was Russell Wilson. Damnit.

[tamaraw08]

Yup, I had mentioned in a previous thread. Pelinka went and got all these guys. Spent summer workouts and camp together. Practiced with Bron and team.. And then when a guy came available, who did not do camp. Who Did not do workouts. Who Did not even practice! Frank immediately started Avery Bradley the next Day, without even unpacking his luggage.
That was not mentioned at all by anyone, t but I was correct in the fact it told a story that Frank did give a sh** about Pelinkas moves and trades.

I really wanT to know if Rob REALLY consulted Vogel about the players he hired, I mean it would make sense, right? Because ultimately Frank decides who will play. If indeed he did get asked, did Vogel do extensive research , watched videos how these free agents play, esp how they defended before etc. Frank has professed his love for Bradley even before, so when Ariza and THT got injured before the start, he probably begged Rob to sign Avery immediately.

[LAKESHOW]

I mean, if you look at Coach Franks MO, he is and will always be a defensive coach.
So to see Rob dump Caruso. An underrated, but intelligent and very good defender. Dump KCP, a guy who can defend multiple positions. KUZ, who can at least hustle and stand in the way of somebody. Dump all those guys, For what Frank must've seen on the 1st day of practice, a bunch of Junk defenders.
Aint no way in my mind, was Frank happy and supportive of these moves

[Kilroy]

Remember when Kuzma was left off the trade table for AD? Think if we'd been able to trade Kuzma instead of Ingram...

I always assumed that happened because NO had zero interest in Kuzma, but most people had Kuzma higher than Ingram... What if that was one of the first signs the FO had no idea what they were doing?
Well, after letting Zubac walk for nothing.

[tamaraw08]

I mean, if you look at Coach Franks MO, he is and will always be a defensive coach.
So to see Rob dump Caruso. An underrated, but intelligent and very good defender. Dump KCP, a guy who can defend multiple positions. KUZ, who can at least hustle and stand in the way of somebody. Dump all those guys, For what Frank must've seen on the 1st day of practice, a bunch of Junk defenders.
Aint no way in my mind, was Frank happy and supportive of these moves

I understand but again I just wonder if what kind of conversation did they have.
Rob: Hey Frank, yes we lost your good defenders KCP, kUZ AND Jeannie didn't want to pay Caruso, so who can I hire to replace those guys? What do you think of getting Bazemore and Ariza? do you think THT is mature enough to finally defend much better?
Frank:????
Did Vogel say yes, "i like Baze, Ariza and I can mold THT into a good defender?
Did Frank say to Rob, I really don't like the defense of Monk, Ellington etc, please don't get them?

[LAKESHOW]

I mean Day 1. Starts Bradley. A guy who didn't join with us in the bubble. A guy who played for Houston. Played for Miami. Just got cut the previous day from Golden State. And without any practice. No summer camp. No training camp. AND STARTS!? Day 1!?
That shows no consideration. No consultation. FO, Bron and AD made their moves without Frank's agreement nor blessing. And Frank didn't like it.

[Kilroy]

I mean, if you look at Coach Franks MO, he is and will always be a defensive coach.
So to see Rob dump Caruso. An underrated, but intelligent and very good defender. Dump KCP, a guy who can defend multiple positions. KUZ, who can at least hustle and stand in the way of somebody. Dump all those guys, For what Frank must've seen on the 1st day of practice, a bunch of Junk defenders.
Aint no way in my mind, was Frank happy and supportive of these moves

I understand but again I just wonder if what kind of conversation did they have.
Rob: Hey Frank, yes we lost your good defenders KCP, kUZ AND Jeannie didn't want to pay Caruso, so who can I hire to replace those guys? What do you think of getting Bazemore and Ariza? do you think THT is mature enough to finally defend much better?
Frank:????
Did Vogel say yes, "i like Baze, Ariza and I can mold THT into a good defender?
Did Frank say to Rob, I really don't like the defense of Monk, Ellington etc, please don't get them?

THT is probably the best defender on the team right now when AD is out or not motivated... He's being asked to cover 1-5 and switch onto LeBron and Westbrook's man when they're getting burned... Is he perfect? No, but he's not getting nearly enough credit for what he's been doing this season... If he looks lost at times, it's usually because he's trying to be in 2 places at once... His natural cover, and the wide open space LeBron and Westbrook left when they wandered off to wait for rebound stats...