Post All-Star Break

[Liqourish]

Team was 13-45 Pre-All Star break. Finished with a win after going 1-12 the previous 13 games. Apparently, the team had a meeting and discussed the losing and how to turn it around. Bagley was given a playbook to learn over All Star weekend.

Since the All-Star break, the Detroit Pistons are 5-2. With wins over playoff teams Charlotte, Toronto and Atlanta.

Cade is putting up 21.6 pts 7.7 rebs 5.4 asts on 43.3% fg and getting to the FT 4.4 times per game compared to 2 times per game pre All-Star break.
Grant is putting up 19.4 pts 3.3 rebs 2.7 asts on 44.1% fg
Bey is putting up 17.1 pts 5.6 rebs 2.6 asts on 45.2%fg up +6.4% from pre all star break.
Bagley is putting up 16.8 pts 6.5 rebs 1.5 stls on 57.4% fg
Diallos and Stewarts numbers are consistent both before and after All Star weekend.

What do you think the record will be over the final 17 games? Can Cade finish the season averaging over 17/6/5? Is Bagley a piece of our core moving forward? What do you want to see to finish the season?

[GreekAlex]

I definitely think Bagley is a difference maker based on him bringing a dynamic that no one else has on the current roster.

I think Bagley is a core piece and we’ll find out more if Stewart misses any time.

[bstein14]

Even though we've played really well, I'd still expect us to be sub .500 over our last 17 games. If I had to put an over/under on wins 7 would be where I'm at. 7-10 seems reasonable. I also think we're likely to rest vets a few games down the stretch but I know guys like Cade, Bagley and Bey will want to play everything they can. We are rolling and playing well now but we'll hit some bumps in the road to finish out the season. Stewart going down hurts for sure, especially against certain bigs.

7-10 to finish would put us a 25-57. My original guess for wins on the season was for us to win between 30-32 but of course we had a struggle to start and Grant going down for a while also hurt a bit.

[edmunder_prc]

My guess is Grant gets rested for Livers. Cojo may get rested and bring up Saben Lee. Start Diallo with Cade and get Hayes and Lee some minutes.

Bagley will play, hes playing for a contract, right?

Just resting Grant will make it a lot harder to win because Grant is a good player, just not an all-star.


EDIT

Bulls lost 5 straight - so that might be a win on Wednesday at home for the Pistons.

[Sort]

I think we can enjoy the ride another week or two before Weaver goes full tank mode. And for those of you cheering for Cade to get ROY, that will probably end his chances.

[zeebneeb]

Team was 13-45 Pre-All Star break. Finished with a win after going 1-12 the previous 13 games. Apparently, the team had a meeting and discussed the losing and how to turn it around. Bagley was given a playbook to learn over All Star weekend.

Since the All-Star break, the Detroit Pistons are 5-2. With wins over playoff teams Charlotte, Toronto and Atlanta.

Cade is putting up 21.6 pts 7.7 rebs 5.4 asts on 43.3% fg and getting to the FT 4.4 times per game compared to 2 times per game pre All-Star break.
Grant is putting up 19.4 pts 3.3 rebs 2.7 asts on 44.1% fg
Bey is putting up 17.1 pts 5.6 rebs 2.6 asts on 45.2%fg up +6.4% from pre all star break.
Bagley is putting up 16.8 pts 6.5 rebs 1.5 stls on 57.4% fg
Diallos and Stewarts numbers are consistent both before and after All Star weekend.

What do you think the record will be over the final 17 games? Can Cade finish the season averaging over 17/6/5? Is Bagley a piece of our core moving forward? What do you want to see to finish the season?

I love that you made this thread, as it's exactly what I was thinking about when I was updating my stats thread. Stats are great, but without context, they are next to meaningless.

The single biggest change that has happened, and has had a ripple effect over the entire team, is Bagley. Now, instead of focusing on Bagley himself, im focusing on the player type. The player type "A" has created space, however miniscule it may seem at times, for everyone else to operate. Stewart(type "B"), as hard a worker as he is, just doesn't create this issue for opposing teams, as he is almost a non-threat offensively, and as I'll explain in a bit, defensively as well.

Type A is able to operate in the Post, spreading the floor for the shooters in a way the Pistons have lacked before.(Learning how to pass out of the post to hit these shooters is something that will come in time)It creates a different player layout opposing teams are not used to, when defending the Pistons. Type A creates a lob threat that allows the ball handler freedom when trapped, to lob the ball to, as well as when getting into the lane, having one less person collapse on him, as the lob threat is real, as evidenced by the Hawks game.

Type A also is a pick and pop threat that has shown the ability to hit a mid-range jumper, and the three pointer, as well as drive the lane when closed on. This creates havoc for the defense, as when the opposing team scrambles to recover, it leaves shooters, and the gaurd who initiated the P&P, open going to the basket.

Defensively, opposing teams have to account for Type A leaping ability, and perceived shot-blocking ability, and has had an effect on lane penetration. Type B for the most part is ground-bound. Type A is perceived as a leaper, causing hesitancy in getting into the paint, whether or not the stats say otherwise.

Now, for a player like Cade, this is huge. I know myself, and many others here, and even media members have been crying out for a type A, a P&R partner for Cade to operate with and the results thus far have been exhilarating. It completes Cades game, and gives him room to operate in. It has also allowed Hayes to operate in the lane as well, and that is a big deal for him, and the team.

Is this because of Bagley, or is it because he is a type A player? I believe it is mostly because he is a type A player, and Cade is the kind of talent that can make any type A player, look great. Now over time Bagley may prove to be an actual talent, but for now, ill go with him just being exactly what Cade, and the whole damn team needed desperately.

I believe having two of these players, much like Doncic has in Dallas,(but hopefully better talents)is what is going to propel the Pistons, and Cade to new heights.

Having two type A players at the PF and C positions creates limitless opportunities for the shooters (Bey, Cade, SG), and a nightmare defensively, on both ends. Now that we have all seen what just one type A player has done, imagine;

Cade
SG
Bey
Banchero/Chet/Smith
Bagley

That is absolutely ridiculous. Now add in a solid Dumars type of player at SG, and you have something very, very real.

I know I've been long winded here, but for the remainder of the season I expect the Pistons to compete hard, and win some games. I expect Cade to average the numbers you listed, but with a slightly higher PPG average. He has posted 4 straight games of 20+, and is averaging over his past 8, (171 total points) 21.3PPG. If Cade continues that over the next 17 games, he will end at 17.7 PPG.

As for total, it could actually comes close to what I was expecting, which after such a horrendous start, would be shocking. If memory serves, I expected them to compete for a play-in slot, which before the season I believed was 31-35 wins. Competing for, and coming up short, would be 29-31 wins. Pistons need to win 10 more games to be almost exactly where I hoped they would be.

Unbelievable play as of late, and I hope they keep it up!

[Snakebites]

I’m glad we’ve won some here- I think we were all desperate to see some progress for this group and we’re really seeing it materialize now.

I’d say we’ll probably hit a rough patch before the season is out. We won’t have the same lotto position we did last year but with the new odds we’ll still stand a chance of adding another impact player.

[Cowology]

10-7 (28-54)

I don't think we are going to slow down significantly. Bagley & Livers may get more minutes, but neither one of those is bad for us. I don't think we'll see much of Lee or Garza, although Luka may get a little more burn if Stewart misses significant time.

We aren't winning games because of hot shooting. This isn't some fluke streak where things are just going right for us and teams are playing bad against us; we are actually executing well. We're gutting out tough, close games in the 4th the way more seasoned teams do. Even the games we've lost recently we've been competitive in and that includes games on the road.

And we haven't been overly reliant on any one particular player; we've been getting solid contributions up & down the roster with Cade, Grant & Bey all standing out at times. Bagley, Olynyk & Diallo are also playing well. The team is playing hard and right now they do not give a **** what their record is; they are coming to ball.

I could be wrong, but I just don't get the impression that we're going to be the team resting vets down the stretch. The "old" men on our roster are Olynyk/CoJo @ 30 and Grant @ 27. We're already a young team were every other rotation player is between 20 & 23 yrs old.

I know this is kind of a bold prediction and probably not what a lot of people want to see with regards to draft position. Sorry!!

[Piston Pete]

I want to see more of Bagley at C. I want to see him make an impact defensively.

I want to see less of Joseph and McGruder

I want to see more of Lee and Livers

And although he’s playing better lately, I’d like to see less Olynyk and more Garza.

[zeebneeb]

I want to see more of Bagley at C. I want to see him make an impact defensively.

I want to see less of Joseph and McGruder

I want to see more of Lee and Livers

And although he’s playing better lately, I’d like to see less Olynyk and more Garza.

I agree with everything except Lee. I mean Joseph is brutal, but Lee transforms into something that doesn't even recognize an NBA player when he gets time.

Its bizarre as he looks good during g-league games.

[Piston Pete]

I want to see more of Bagley at C. I want to see him make an impact defensively.

I want to see less of Joseph and McGruder

I want to see more of Lee and Livers

And although he’s playing better lately, I’d like to see less Olynyk and more Garza.

I agree with everything except Lee. I mean Joseph is brutal, but Lee transforms into something that doesn't even recognize an NBA player when he gets time.

Its bizarre as he looks good during g-league games.

I mean, some say that about Killian too. I really think both need more PT. Ideally, one will start to show us something before we have to let them go.

[Cowology]

I wouldn't be upset if Lee got minutes. CoJo is garbage. I just think Casey likes having a veteran guard out there with all the kids. If we're already expanding Bagley's role and maybe Livers I think there is probably a limit to how much he's going to want to rock the boat when we're playing much better. There is something to be said for stability, especially for a young team. Just knowing who is going to be where on the floor. Knowing each others strengths & preferences, even if it isn't necessarily the "best" or most talented lineup.

Total gut feeling on my part though - I really can't make a strong argument for why I'm right on this one.

[ComboGuardCity]

Cojo doesn’t even really point point anymore. He’s pretty much an off guard. I’d like to see Frank take his spot when he’s healthy.

[Cowology]

Cojo doesn’t even really point point anymore. He’s pretty much an off guard. I’d like to see Frank take his spot when he’s healthy.

That seems more likely than Lee.

[guldakot]

I've tried to be a huge advocate for Lee, the kid absolutely has NBA talent. His problem appears to be that he cannot handle even bench nba pressure. You dont tear up the G-league like he consistently does and then come an NBA game looking like a rec league player without having a mental block. I hope he figures it out because he can and should be at least a bench guy in the nba for years to come.

[Sort]

I've tried to be a huge advocate for Lee, the kid absolutely has NBA talent. His problem appears to be that he cannot handle even bench nba pressure. You dont tear up the G-league like he consistently does and then come an NBA game looking like a rec league player without having a mental block. I hope he figures it out because he can and should be at least a bench guy in the nba for years to come.

I kind of agree with that. His physical tools suggest a pesky defender of quicker ones, the potential to be like Lindsay Hunter of days gone by. Pistons could certainly use his lane penetration, but you also have to demonstrate something on the court. And he clearly has not done that.

I'm guessing it's because he doesn't know how to play anything but the Alpha role out there. In G League, he's the freaking man. In the NBA, he's a complimentary player. That freakish athleticism has a drawback: never learning how to be a role player.

[guldakot]

I've tried to be a huge advocate for Lee, the kid absolutely has NBA talent. His problem appears to be that he cannot handle even bench nba pressure. You dont tear up the G-league like he consistently does and then come an NBA game looking like a rec league player without having a mental block. I hope he figures it out because he can and should be at least a bench guy in the nba for years to come.

I kind of agree with that. His physical tools suggest a pesky defender of quicker ones, the potential to be like Lindsay Hunter of days gone by. Pistons could certainly use his lane penetration, but you also have to demonstrate something on the court. And he clearly has not done that.

I'm guessing it's because he doesn't know how to play anything but the Alpha role out there. In G League, he's the freaking man. In the NBA, he's a complimentary player. That freakish athleticism has a drawback: never learning how to be a role player.

The most stunning thing is how bad he is at the rim in an actual NBA game. Maybe its because hes used to dunking over college kids and doesn't know what to do if he can't throw it down. He turns into Kwame Brown after getting to the rim with ease its just straight up bizzarre.

[440BB]

I've tried to be a huge advocate for Lee, the kid absolutely has NBA talent. His problem appears to be that he cannot handle even bench nba pressure. You dont tear up the G-league like he consistently does and then come an NBA game looking like a rec league player without having a mental block. I hope he figures it out because he can and should be at least a bench guy in the nba for years to come.

I kind of agree with that. His physical tools suggest a pesky defender of quicker ones, the potential to be like Lindsay Hunter of days gone by. Pistons could certainly use his lane penetration, but you also have to demonstrate something on the court. And he clearly has not done that.

I'm guessing it's because he doesn't know how to play anything but the Alpha role out there. In G League, he's the freaking man. In the NBA, he's a complimentary player. That freakish athleticism has a drawback: never learning how to be a role player.

I agree. When Lee and Hayes were on the court together late last season, they were pretty good. Hayes spoke about how much he enjoyed playing with Lee. Lee was the alpha on the court and they were both comfortable in their roles. That showed much about both players.

I hope Lee can figure it out and find his way onto the bench, there's some electric talent there we could use.