Nikola Jokic 21-22 Thread - 2022 NBA MVP Any thoughts?

[ty 4191]

Nobody here seems to care, but this guy is having, arguably, the greatest season in NBA history, at least on a per game basis.

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PER, single season, NBA history. Min 1400 MP:

Jokic 21-22: 33.1
Giannis 19-20: 31.9
Chamberlain 62-63: 31.8

Jokic is second all time in triple doubles by a center in the regular season, with 69. Wilt had 78 in 1045 games. Jokic has played only 496 games.

Including playoffs, Chamberlain had 87 triple doubles. Jokic has 75, already.

Watch on YouTube

The guy is preternatural; phenomenal. He's one of the greatest players in NBA history and arguably the greatest player I've ever seen.

[ty 4191]

Jokic's slash line is 26.2/13.8/7.7 this season.

No player in NBA history has ever put up 26/13/7 for a season.

Oscar Robertson put up 30/12/11 in 1962, and for further context, that was a year when there were 127 possessions per game.

There's been only 102 per game this year.

[itsxtray]

Nobody here seems to care, but this guy is having, arguably, the greatest season in NBA history, at least on a per game basis.

Watch on YouTube

PER, single season, NBA history. Min 1400 MP:

Jokic 21-22: 33.1
Giannis 19-20: 31.9
Chamberlain 62-63: 31.8

Jokic is second all time in triple doubles by a center in the regular season, with 69. Wilt had 78 in 1045 games. Jokic has played only 496 games.

Including playoffs, Chamberlain had 87 triple doubles. Jokic has 75, already.

Watch on YouTube

The guy is preternatural; phenomenal. He's one of the greatest players in NBA history and arguably the greatest player I've ever seen.

Jokic is great but comparing his triple doubles to Wilt is apples to oranges. Blocks weren't recorded until after he retired and from limited news paper clipplings we do have dude had multiple 10+ block games. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fadeawayworld.net/.amp/nba-media/in-112-career-games-wilt-chamberlain-averaged-8-8-blocks-per-game-that-would-be-an-nba-record-by-margin-of-5-3-blocks

[ty 4191]

Jokic is great but comparing his triple doubles to Wilt is apples to oranges. Blocks weren't recorded until after he retired and from limited news paper clipplings we do have dude had multiple 10+ block games. https://www.google.com/amp/s/fadeawayworld.net/.amp/nba-media/in-112-career-games-wilt-chamberlain-averaged-8-8-blocks-per-game-that-would-be-an-nba-record-by-margin-of-5-3-blocks

Great point.

I'm probably the biggest Wilt proponent you're going to meet here. He probably would have had 500 triple doubles in 1205 games if they counted blocks.

Regarding Wilt's blocked shots....

I personally went through 137 box scores and wrap ups/write ups. Here's what I found:

Code: Select all

11/25/59   6   
1/5/60   10   
2/3/60   11   
3/2/60   14   
11/1/60   9   
11/4/60   12   55 rebounds vs. Russell
11/24/60   8   
2/5/61   8   Blocked Bellamy's First 9 Shots
11/19/61   9   
1/15/62   4   
3/14/62   20   
3/22/62   12   
12/26/62   12   
12/3/63   10   
4/16/64   12   
3/28/65   9   
3/29/65   12   
3/31/65   10   
4/1/65   10   
4/1/65   11   
4/5/65   11   
4/7/65   6   
4/11/65   2   
4/15/65   1   
10/23/65   15   
12/27/65   16   
1/28/66   6   
1/30/66   6   
11/9/66   17   Vs. Russell
11/16/66   12   
12/9/66   6   
1/15/67   13   
2/2/67   5   
3/25/67   8   
3/31/67   12   
4/1/67   12   
4/2/67   5   
4/11/67   7   
4/14/67   9   
4/16/67   10   
1/20/68   3   
2/12/68   9   
11/25/68   23   
12/18/68   5   
12/22/68   4   
12/23/68   7   
12/25/68   23   
1/3/69   1   
1/17/69   12   
1/19/69   9   
1/21/69   6   
1/31/69   20   
3/11/69   11   
3/17/69   6   
4/2/69   9   
4/4/69   10   
4/20/69   16   
4/24/69   13   
4/25/69   13   
10/24/69   3   
11/9/69   7   
4/5/70   10   
4/8/70   12   
4/9/70   11   
4/19/70   10   
5/8/70   2   
11/18/70   6   6 against Jabaar
11/20/70   10   
12/21/70   2   
1/8/71   6   
2/5/71   6   
3/3/71   8   
3/19/71   12   
3/30/71   10   
4/4/71   4   
4/9/71   8   
4/14/71   3   
4/16/71   6   
4/19/71   10   
11/7/71   6   
11/10/71   8   
11/21/71   4   
11/25/71   12   
11/26/71   6   
11/27/71   12   
11/28/71   5   
12/3/71   9   
12/8/71   7   
12/9/71   12   
12/12/71   6   
12/13/71   9   
12/14/71   9   
12/14/71   7   
12/17/71   6   
12/19/71   12   
12/21/71   11   
12/30/71   8   
1/7/72   8   
1/9/72   6   
1/14/1972   6   
3/12/72   5   
4/2/72   9   
4/13/72   10   6 were Kareem's Shots
4/14/72   9   
4/15/72   9   
4/16/72   9   
4/16/72   3   
4/17/72   10   
4/22/72   10   
4/23/72   12   
5/7/72   6   
10/15/72   2   
10/20/72   9   
10/22/72   12   
10/27/72   1   
11/3/72   7   
11/4/72   7   
11/10/72   8   
12/13/72   15   
12/14/72   15   
12/29/72   7   
1/28/73   7   
2/5/73   5   
2/6/73   7   
2/17/73   6   
2/23/73   10   
3/4/73   8   
3/6/73   7   
4/1/73   11   
4/8/73   12   
4/15/73   8   
4/16/73   8   
4/16/73   8   
4/17/73   8   
5/1/73   7   
5/3/73   7   
5/10/73   2   

AVERAGE: 8.75 blocks per game

Most Triple Doubles By A Center: 1967-1968 Including Playoffs (No Blocks Included):
Wilt: 60
Russell: 6
Thurmond: 2
Bellamy: 2
Leroy Ellis: 1

That's it!

[ty 4191]

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Four game winning blocks this year, alone.

#MVP !!!

[TroubleS0me]

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[kayess]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

[TroubleS0me]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

Read on Twitter

[kayess]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

Read on Twitter

Is that raw +/-?

Also thanks!

[Peregrine01]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

At this point, his play has gotten normalized. But he may well go down as the greatest offensive player of all-time. Crazy enough as it sounds.

[Colbinii]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

Read on Twitter

Is that raw +/-?

Also thanks!

Yes

[sp6r=underrated]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

At this point, his play has gotten normalized. But he may well go down as the greatest offensive player of all-time. Crazy enough as it sounds.

He's absurdly great but I just don't think there is away for a big to go down as the greatest offensive player of all time. But he is raising the ceiling on what I thought a big could accomplish.

But this is the first player since Lebron began his ascent in 08 with, whisper, the ability to end up in the GOAT discussion. He's just absurdly gifted. A true pleasure to watch

[ty 4191]

Jokic has AVERAGED 26.4/12.1/8.0 his last 140 games. In only 34.0 MPG.

Consider that no player in NBA history has ever approached that slash line for any SINGLE season.

This guy is an all time great.

[sp6r=underrated]

Jokic has AVERAGED 26.4/12.1/8.0 his last 140 games. In only 34.0 MPG.

Consider that no player in NBA history has ever approached that slash line for any SINGLE season.

This guy is an all time great.

He's mind boggling good. When I watch him play, I genuinely feel bad for Embiid. It'd be like if Kobe was an exact contemporary of Jordan.

By any reasonable standard Embiid is an ATG big but compared to Jokic

[falcolombardi]

Jokic has AVERAGED 26.4/12.1/8.0 his last 140 games. In only 34.0 MPG.

Consider that no player in NBA history has ever approached that slash line for any SINGLE season.

This guy is an all time great.

He's mind boggling good. When I watch him play, I genuinely feel bad for Embiid. It'd be like if Kobe was an exact contemporary of Jordan.

By any reasonable standard Embiid is an ATG big but compared to Jokic

in fairness embiid is not worse in defense than jokic (probably better on average) where jordan was a better defender than kobe too

if kobe had been a better defender than jordan he would have a solid argument to be almost in his level

being almost in jokic level but a bit below is exactly where i would put embiid

[sp6r=underrated]

Jokic has AVERAGED 26.4/12.1/8.0 his last 140 games. In only 34.0 MPG.

Consider that no player in NBA history has ever approached that slash line for any SINGLE season.

This guy is an all time great.

He's mind boggling good. When I watch him play, I genuinely feel bad for Embiid. It'd be like if Kobe was an exact contemporary of Jordan.

By any reasonable standard Embiid is an ATG big but compared to Jokic

in fairness embiid is not worse in defense than jokic (probably better on average) where jordan was a better defender than kobe too

if kobe had been a better defender than jordan he would have a solid argument to be almost in his level

being almost in jokic level but a bit below is exactly where i would put embiid

I have an unpopular take on Kobe/MJ. I think the only thing that separated the two was athletic ability.

[falcolombardi]

He's mind boggling good. When I watch him play, I genuinely feel bad for Embiid. It'd be like if Kobe was an exact contemporary of Jordan.

By any reasonable standard Embiid is an ATG big but compared to Jokic

in fairness embiid is not worse in defense than jokic (probably better on average) where jordan was a better defender than kobe too

if kobe had been a better defender than jordan he would have a solid argument to be almost in his level

being almost in jokic level but a bit below is exactly where i would put embiid

I have an unpopular take on Kobe/MJ. I think the only thing that separated the two was athletic ability.

i wouldnt disagree, but that athletic ability (amd hand size) was huge for jordan on both ends of the court compared to kobe

in jordan vs kobe you have two ultra skilled athletic wings with a bit of a Gunner mentality but one is much quicker, has longer hands, etc so he can attack the basket more and defend better making him more efficient and impactful

in jokic vs embiid you have a equally if not more skilled (despite embiid crazy skill) and way smarter player but with weaker physical tools to use

[Peregrine01]

Why is this thread so dead? This guy is forcefully taking the torch from LeBron and it seems like no one cares, wtf?

I love Embiid, Giannis, Luka too, but this guy is probably the true heir.

I know I asked before but - how's his defense coming along? Any NPI/PI RAPM/whatever the most advanced +/- stuff right now is telling us? I have a feeling Jokic to Giannis/Embiid is like Bron to, idk, Kobe. Just clearly better no matter how you slice it in terms of impact

At this point, his play has gotten normalized. But he may well go down as the greatest offensive player of all-time. Crazy enough as it sounds.

He's absurdly great but I just don't think there is away for a big to go down as the greatest offensive player of all time. But he is raising the ceiling on what I thought a big could accomplish.

But this is the first player since Lebron began his ascent in 08 with, whisper, the ability to end up in the GOAT discussion. He's just absurdly gifted. A true pleasure to watch

Traditional bigs aren't as impactful on offense because they don't handle the ball like guards do. But Jokic does and he also happens to be one of the greatest passers that we've ever seen. And on top of that, he combines that with Dirk-like shooting from the outside which draws defending bigs out of the paint and opens up easy lay-up opportunities for his teammates. AND on top of that, he's one of the greatest post players we've ever seen.

The craziest thing about all of this is that he's probably already in the KAJ/Shaq tier of post scorers. As an overall scorer, he might be one of the greatest we've ever seen. It's just completely absurd.

[frica]

I'd be pretty mad if Embiid wins the MVP. He shouldn't have much of a case, but the betting odds seem to be in favour of Joel.

[GSP]

I'd be pretty mad if Embiid wins the MVP. He shouldn't have much of a case, but the betting odds seem to be in favour of Joel.

Theres enough time for it to swing. The Monday matchup will have MASSIVE implications like that Lakers VS Hornets game in 08 for the Kobe VS Cp3 Mvp narrative