PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1261 » by Colbinii » Thu Mar 3, 2022 5:36 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:I saw Michael Finley had his number retired by Wisconsin. Good for him.

Seeing him reminded me of how much basketball knowledge has advanced. When I think of his tenure with Dallas at the time they were seen as a big 3. If it occurred today, I think everyone would have recognized it was a big 2 and he was a good supporting piece.

Fans and media are a lot smarter today


How would you compare Finley with the Mavs to Love with the Cavaliers?


This is such a tough question because they're so dissimilar players. Love was much more talented but for reasons that are still unclear to me, I didn't follow it closely enough, he declined significantly in Cleveland. It wasn't just a smaller role with Lebron and Kyrie because he showed no return to previous form.

Still inclined to say Love was marginally better.


I think the 2003 Mavericks win the Finals if Dirk doesn't get hurt.

Imagine how much changes with that? Does Nash stay in Dallas?
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1262 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu Mar 3, 2022 5:44 pm

Colbinii wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
How would you compare Finley with the Mavs to Love with the Cavaliers?


This is such a tough question because they're so dissimilar players. Love was much more talented but for reasons that are still unclear to me, I didn't follow it closely enough, he declined significantly in Cleveland. It wasn't just a smaller role with Lebron and Kyrie because he showed no return to previous form.

Still inclined to say Love was marginally better.


I think the 2003 Mavericks win the Finals if Dirk doesn't get hurt.

Imagine how much changes with that? Does Nash stay in Dallas?


The great what if of that era to me is if Dallas doesn't overreact to the tough loss in the WCF 2003. After that loss, they made a horrible series of roster moves that weakened the 2004 club.

1. Bringing in Walker.
2. Moving Dirk to center
3. Bringing in JAmison.

There is simply no way to build a viable defense with rotations when this is your most common lineup. M. Finley | A. Jamison | S. Nash | D. Nowitzki | A. Walker. The trashbag uniform was a fitting choice for that decision.

If they bring back that 2003 roster with minor changes there is a very good chance they are the dominant force in basketball for next 5-7 years.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1263 » by Colbinii » Thu Mar 3, 2022 5:48 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
This is such a tough question because they're so dissimilar players. Love was much more talented but for reasons that are still unclear to me, I didn't follow it closely enough, he declined significantly in Cleveland. It wasn't just a smaller role with Lebron and Kyrie because he showed no return to previous form.

Still inclined to say Love was marginally better.


I think the 2003 Mavericks win the Finals if Dirk doesn't get hurt.

Imagine how much changes with that? Does Nash stay in Dallas?


The great what if of that era to me is if Dallas doesn't overreact to the tough loss in the WCF 2003. After that loss, they made a horrible series of roster moves that weakened the 2004 club.

1. Bringing in Walker.
2. Moving Dirk to center
3. Bringing in JAmison.

There is simply no way to build a viable defense with rotations when this is your most common lineup. M. Finley | A. Jamison | S. Nash | D. Nowitzki | A. Walker. The trashbag uniform was a fitting choice for that decision.

If they bring back that 2003 roster with minor changes there is a very good chance they are the dominant force in basketball for next 5-7 years.


Yeah and then they followed that up with the Erick Damper acquisition in attempts to correct it.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1264 » by trex_8063 » Thu Mar 3, 2022 5:50 pm

Does anyone know of a website or what-have-you where you can create your own Elo rating database? Like something where you provide all the entries, and it feeds you match-ups that you can vote on until sufficient match-ups have been played until you have a list of ratings/rankings??

Anyone know of such a site?

EDIT: preferably a free site.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1265 » by eminence » Thu Mar 3, 2022 8:52 pm

trex_8063 wrote:Does anyone know of a website or what-have-you where you can create your own Elo rating database? Like something where you provide all the entries, and it feeds you match-ups that you can vote on until sufficient match-ups have been played until you have a list of ratings/rankings??

Anyone know of such a site?

EDIT: preferably a free site.


I want to say EvanZ had built a site somewhat like what you describe.

Don't remember the details though, but you could try reaching out to him here or on Twitter.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1266 » by Doctor MJ » Sun Mar 6, 2022 6:41 pm

Political trigger warning which I'm not trying to get into in this thread, but you're the community I wanted to make sure knew this, as I just learned it:

Brittney Griner is in jail in Russia. There's an allegation of cannabis material, which may be true, but naive to think that an arrest at this time - after years of being celebrated playing for UMMC Ekaterinburg in the Winter - is coincidental.

What We Know About Brittney Griner’s Detention in Russia

I'm worried about much more than one person right now, but this is part of our basketball world, so I thought others might want to know.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1267 » by falcolombardi » Tue Mar 8, 2022 6:25 pm

off topic but somethingh interesting about basketball idiosincracy is how, well, lets call it nationalistic/racial it is (as are most sports to be fair)

i am latinamerican so i am "neutral" to both europe and the united states, but as a spanish speaker i started reading/talking basketball in mostly spain forums which were most of basketball stuff i could find when i was like 13~

and even at that age i noticed the racial/chauvinistic undertones: it would take 20 white players being praise d for their inteligence, being "real players" and not divas etc before a black player receives any intelligence compliment or for his character

every other European guard would be fawned over his IQ before chris paul had a small compliment to his, to say nothingh of the common implicación that nba "is just show" and European basketball was "real" whatever that meant, it was easy even for a kid to notice somethingh weird going on

i even Developed a theory than europeans (spanish in this case) were accostumed to all the world talent coming to them in soccer, and it was a "ego" hit that in basketball they were in the position southamerica/africa are in soccer as "feeding leagues" to other continent or that Barcelona and real Madrid were not a big deal to american basketball world

(the amount of times i have seen basketball madrid/Barça fans look down on weaker nba teams as inferior to them is wild) it feels like sports classism/entitlement that if the soccer world órbits around real madrid (sometimes) then the basketball world should orbit around them too

so young me overcorrected and generated a general distrust whenever someone called a black player a diva or low IQ and a white/european praised for his genius or toughness or "realness" etc

it took me a while because of this to realize how common the reverse was amongst american basketball media and many fans

a lot of the american public and those in the biggest media positions (Stephen A Smith comes to mind) dont/didnt take foreign players and leagues seriously, automatically assume euros were soft unathletic or bad defenders, etc

but i was biased the other way around now so i used to mentally overcorrect -agaisnt- white and euro players, if someone said Rubio was a brilliant player i would be skeptic that he would get the same praise if he was black and american

if someone said larry bird was the smartest player ever i would be expectic that it was about his race that someone had him ovee magic etc until i realized my own Developed bias over this

it makes me wonder how many of those biases i may unadvertedly still have thay cloud my judgement over athletes or how common they may still be at sports

in that regard learning about the dirty story of black quarterbacks in the nfl was eye opening to how much this still happens in modern sports
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1268 » by Jaivl » Tue Mar 8, 2022 11:15 pm

falcolombardi wrote:off topic but somethingh interesting about basketball idiosincracy is how, well, lets call it nationalistic/racial it is (as are most sports to be fair)

i am latinamerican so i am "neutral" to both europe and the united states, but as a spanish speaker i started reading/talking basketball in mostly spain forums which were most of basketball stuff i could find when i was like 13~

and even at that age i noticed the racial/chauvinistic undertones: it would take 20 white players being praise d for their inteligence, being "real players" and not divas etc before a black player receives any intelligence compliment or for his character

every other European guard would be fawned over his IQ before chris paul had a small compliment to his, to say nothingh of the common implicación that nba "is just show" and European basketball was "real" whatever that meant, it was easy even for a kid to notice somethingh weird going on

i even Developed a theory than europeans (spanish in this case) were accostumed to all the world talent coming to them in soccer, and it was a "ego" hit that in basketball they were in the position southamerica/africa are in soccer as "feeding leagues" to other continent or that Barcelona and real Madrid were not a big deal to american basketball world

(the amount of times i have seen basketball madrid/Barça fans look down on weaker nba teams as inferior to them is wild) it feels like sports classism/entitlement that if the soccer world órbits around real madrid (sometimes) then the basketball world should orbit around them too

so young me overcorrected and generated a general distrust whenever someone called a black player a diva or low IQ and a white/european praised for his genius or toughness or "realness" etc

it took me a while because of this to realize how common the reverse was amongst american basketball media and many fans

a lot of the american public and those in the biggest media positions (Stephen A Smith comes to mind) dont/didnt take foreign players and leagues seriously, automatically assume euros were soft unathletic or bad defenders, etc

but i was biased the other way around now so i used to mentally overcorrect -agaisnt- white and euro players, if someone said Rubio was a brilliant player i would be skeptic that he would get the same praise if he was black and american

if someone said larry bird was the smartest player ever i would be expectic that it was about his race that someone had him ovee magic etc until i realized my own Developed bias over this

it makes me wonder how many of those biases i may unadvertedly still have thay cloud my judgement over athletes or how common they may still be at sports

in that regard learning about the dirty story of black quarterbacks in the nfl was eye opening to how much this still happens in modern sports

I think my favourite is during the lockout season, many Barça fans did not want Durant or Harden because "They wouldn't even have a place in the roster! They lack fundamentals and BBIQ!". (of course at that time they had a very intelligent forward in Ingles and... they hated him lol, just goes to show what they knew)

And Chris Paul is indeed a very articulate young man!
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1269 » by falcolombardi » Wed Mar 9, 2022 9:49 pm

Jaivl wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:off topic but somethingh interesting about basketball idiosincracy is how, well, lets call it nationalistic/racial it is (as are most sports to be fair)

i am latinamerican so i am "neutral" to both europe and the united states, but as a spanish speaker i started reading/talking basketball in mostly spain forums which were most of basketball stuff i could find when i was like 13~

and even at that age i noticed the racial/chauvinistic undertones: it would take 20 white players being praise d for their inteligence, being "real players" and not divas etc before a black player receives any intelligence compliment or for his character

every other European guard would be fawned over his IQ before chris paul had a small compliment to his, to say nothingh of the common implicación that nba "is just show" and European basketball was "real" whatever that meant, it was easy even for a kid to notice somethingh weird going on

i even Developed a theory than europeans (spanish in this case) were accostumed to all the world talent coming to them in soccer, and it was a "ego" hit that in basketball they were in the position southamerica/africa are in soccer as "feeding leagues" to other continent or that Barcelona and real Madrid were not a big deal to american basketball world

(the amount of times i have seen basketball madrid/Barça fans look down on weaker nba teams as inferior to them is wild) it feels like sports classism/entitlement that if the soccer world órbits around real madrid (sometimes) then the basketball world should orbit around them too

so young me overcorrected and generated a general distrust whenever someone called a black player a diva or low IQ and a white/european praised for his genius or toughness or "realness" etc

it took me a while because of this to realize how common the reverse was amongst american basketball media and many fans

a lot of the american public and those in the biggest media positions (Stephen A Smith comes to mind) dont/didnt take foreign players and leagues seriously, automatically assume euros were soft unathletic or bad defenders, etc

but i was biased the other way around now so i used to mentally overcorrect -agaisnt- white and euro players, if someone said Rubio was a brilliant player i would be skeptic that he would get the same praise if he was black and american

if someone said larry bird was the smartest player ever i would be expectic that it was about his race that someone had him ovee magic etc until i realized my own Developed bias over this

it makes me wonder how many of those biases i may unadvertedly still have thay cloud my judgement over athletes or how common they may still be at sports

in that regard learning about the dirty story of black quarterbacks in the nfl was eye opening to how much this still happens in modern sports

I think my favourite is during the lockout season, many Barça fans did not want Durant or Harden because "They wouldn't even have a place in the roster! They lack fundamentals and BBIQ!". (of course at that time they had a very intelligent forward in Ingles and... they hated him lol, just goes to show what they knew)

And Chris Paul is indeed a very articulate young man!


No **** way

did they actually say that!?
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1270 » by Jaivl » Wed Mar 9, 2022 10:19 pm

falcolombardi wrote:
Jaivl wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:off topic but somethingh interesting about basketball idiosincracy is how, well, lets call it nationalistic/racial it is (as are most sports to be fair)

i am latinamerican so i am "neutral" to both europe and the united states, but as a spanish speaker i started reading/talking basketball in mostly spain forums which were most of basketball stuff i could find when i was like 13~

and even at that age i noticed the racial/chauvinistic undertones: it would take 20 white players being praise d for their inteligence, being "real players" and not divas etc before a black player receives any intelligence compliment or for his character

every other European guard would be fawned over his IQ before chris paul had a small compliment to his, to say nothingh of the common implicación that nba "is just show" and European basketball was "real" whatever that meant, it was easy even for a kid to notice somethingh weird going on

i even Developed a theory than europeans (spanish in this case) were accostumed to all the world talent coming to them in soccer, and it was a "ego" hit that in basketball they were in the position southamerica/africa are in soccer as "feeding leagues" to other continent or that Barcelona and real Madrid were not a big deal to american basketball world

(the amount of times i have seen basketball madrid/Barça fans look down on weaker nba teams as inferior to them is wild) it feels like sports classism/entitlement that if the soccer world órbits around real madrid (sometimes) then the basketball world should orbit around them too

so young me overcorrected and generated a general distrust whenever someone called a black player a diva or low IQ and a white/european praised for his genius or toughness or "realness" etc

it took me a while because of this to realize how common the reverse was amongst american basketball media and many fans

a lot of the american public and those in the biggest media positions (Stephen A Smith comes to mind) dont/didnt take foreign players and leagues seriously, automatically assume euros were soft unathletic or bad defenders, etc

but i was biased the other way around now so i used to mentally overcorrect -agaisnt- white and euro players, if someone said Rubio was a brilliant player i would be skeptic that he would get the same praise if he was black and american

if someone said larry bird was the smartest player ever i would be expectic that it was about his race that someone had him ovee magic etc until i realized my own Developed bias over this

it makes me wonder how many of those biases i may unadvertedly still have thay cloud my judgement over athletes or how common they may still be at sports

in that regard learning about the dirty story of black quarterbacks in the nfl was eye opening to how much this still happens in modern sports

I think my favourite is during the lockout season, many Barça fans did not want Durant or Harden because "They wouldn't even have a place in the roster! They lack fundamentals and BBIQ!". (of course at that time they had a very intelligent forward in Ingles and... they hated him lol, just goes to show what they knew)

And Chris Paul is indeed a very articulate young man!


No **** way

did they actually say that!?

I swear to god.

I mean, are you really surprised? Petrovic was in his way to GOAT status, USA only beats Spain because of refs and Real Madrid would enter the playoffs in the East every season :banghead:

Also speaking of Real Madrid, what a small club the PSG is. Minuscule.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1271 » by falcolombardi » Wed Mar 9, 2022 10:22 pm

Jaivl wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:
Jaivl wrote:I think my favourite is during the lockout season, many Barça fans did not want Durant or Harden because "They wouldn't even have a place in the roster! They lack fundamentals and BBIQ!". (of course at that time they had a very intelligent forward in Ingles and... they hated him lol, just goes to show what they knew)

And Chris Paul is indeed a very articulate young man!


No **** way

did they actually say that!?

I swear to god.

I mean, are you really surprised? Petrovic was in his way to GOAT status, USA only beats Spain because of refs and Real Madrid would enter the playoffs in the East every season :banghead:

Also speaking of Real Madrid, what a small club the PSG is. Minuscule.


in related news, messi Ballon D'or is looking worse every day
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1272 » by sp6r=underrated » Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:25 am

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Full agreement on Dungy with Calvin Ridley. All the sports leagues encourage gambling. They shouldn't be surprised that some players take em up on it.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1273 » by Colbinii » Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:15 am

sp6r=underrated wrote:
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Full agreement on Dungy with Calvin Ridley. All the sports leagues encourage gambling. They shouldn't be surprised that some players take em up on it.


It's extreme hypocrisy at its finest.

Do players get penalized for Fantasy Football? Of course not.

If I join a fantasy football league, play in the NFL and the league has a prize pool, then I am betting on games.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1274 » by Owly » Thu Mar 10, 2022 4:46 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
This is such a tough question because they're so dissimilar players. Love was much more talented but for reasons that are still unclear to me, I didn't follow it closely enough, he declined significantly in Cleveland. It wasn't just a smaller role with Lebron and Kyrie because he showed no return to previous form.

Still inclined to say Love was marginally better.


I think the 2003 Mavericks win the Finals if Dirk doesn't get hurt.

Imagine how much changes with that? Does Nash stay in Dallas?


The great what if of that era to me is if Dallas doesn't overreact to the tough loss in the WCF 2003. After that loss, they made a horrible series of roster moves that weakened the 2004 club.

1. Bringing in Walker.
2. Moving Dirk to center
3. Bringing in JAmison.

There is simply no way to build a viable defense with rotations when this is your most common lineup. M. Finley | A. Jamison | S. Nash | D. Nowitzki | A. Walker. The trashbag uniform was a fitting choice for that decision.

If they bring back that 2003 roster with minor changes there is a very good chance they are the dominant force in basketball for next 5-7 years.

Hmmm. I'd disagree on some points.

Maybe you're talking about moves badness "in conjunction with one another".

And it will depend what level defense you need to be "viable" given a certain level of offense (because that offense was really good). So yeah even with a trash defense I think they're at the very fringe of contendership (especially if one smartly manages rotations - perhaps especially benching Walker).

Certainly they didn't optimally target improving weaknesses.

But Jamison (and Fortson) basically arrived for Van Exel. Jamison had arguably his best ever year, at least production-wise. I don't know about salary/flexibility implications but I think that's a clear talent win (younger, better players, more good players so more good player minutes).

Walker in for Lafrentz (especially in the Dallas context, especially if Laftentz could stay healthy - far from a given, and especially given they sent a pick) is probably a loss but despite a bad year (production and especially impact-wise) Walker's "star" status (I assume, rather than his play) allowed them to flip him for Terry (and a notional pick that didn't convey) which meant Walker's stay was big short term pain, but at least long term net win (if taken in isolation ... of course if you think he destroys the vision for an offense-centric Mavs, causes Nashes departure etc, not so much).
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1275 » by sp6r=underrated » Sun Mar 13, 2022 5:00 pm

Tennis is similar to hockey. Whenever I watch it I think, I should watch this more, this is an awesome sport, and then go 6 months without watching. I don't know much about Osaka but I find the ongoing story fascinating as it tells a lot about the modern athletes relations to fans and media.

Question for tennis fans: Is she treated different than the other mostly white tennis players?
Questions for everyone:
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a male athlete acted like Osaka?
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a white athlete acted like Osaka?
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1276 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:39 pm

I haven't paid as much attention the last few years to tennis, but honestly at this point it's obvious Osaka has real mental health issues I'm sympathetic to, it's a unique situation because 99% of the time you're not getting to the level as a pro athlete she did unless your head is straight especially in a sport like tennis which is a perfect environment to crack.

In terms of the if she was white question, I feel like it's less obvious than say Serena, where I feel confident saying if she was white she would've received less criticisms for her outbursts, which played perfectly into some ugly biases people had towards her. With Osaka emotional health issues is not portrayed that much for either black men or women in media, so I'm not sure how it affects it one way or the other.
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1277 » by sp6r=underrated » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:44 am

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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1278 » by falcolombardi » Fri Mar 18, 2022 8:36 pm

there is a discussion. right now in the general board about luka old comments that it is harder to score in euroleague and i got called out for disagreeing (cause "so you think you know better than luka")

i think this is fairly reminiscent of the usual logic of "if stats disagree with players then stats are wrong"

but worse because in this case it seems like people confusing "more points" with "easier to score/weaker defense"

is the same reason some people look at scoring performance by the same players in ncaa then the nba and conclude ncaa plays more/tougher defense than nba

1- because minutes/pace explain most difference

2- because ncaa and European leagues usually are less heliocentric even when it looks like thet have a talented enough player to take a 30% or more load

3- there are some rules that make defense easier in europe but i thinl its effect is overstated

4- i think weaker offensive talent around is a bigger factor
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1279 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:32 am

sp6r=underrated wrote:Tennis is similar to hockey. Whenever I watch it I think, I should watch this more, this is an awesome sport, and then go 6 months without watching. I don't know much about Osaka but I find the ongoing story fascinating as it tells a lot about the modern athletes relations to fans and media.

Question for tennis fans: Is she treated different than the other mostly white tennis players?
Questions for everyone:
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a male athlete acted like Osaka?
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a white athlete acted like Osaka?


So, I think the first thing is this:

Osaka gets way more attention than she would otherwise get if she looked different. Call it the Tiger Woods phenomenon. Literally impossible for a white golfer to get as much attention as Tiger got. Why? Because golfers are White, and he's not. For a converse example: Consider Larry Bird who has regularly seen his collectibles go for more than Magic Johnson. Why? Because basketball players are Black, and he's not. Or Jeremy Lin for that matter. (And of course the Williams sisters in tennis.)

When you're a spearhead. It matters to people. Osaka is biracial with a country of origin that hasn't ever produced a dominant player before.

Then there's the attractiveness angle. If I say the name "Anna Kournikova" y'all will know. Why? Not because she was good at tennis - she never won a single professional tournament as a singles player, not Grand Slam tournaments here, she never won even a minor tournament. You know her because she was beautiful. Osaka is beautiful too.

This along with her appearing to emerge as the next great female tennis player after a decade plus without any new great female tennis player emerging, caused her to become a phenomenon.

And what we're seeing is someone who very clearly has major anxiety issues - clear from Day 1 - getting more attention than almost everyone else in the world. It's a recipe for something to go sideways.

I do think the tennis media can be overly "gotcha", and can do so with patronizing, exploitive sexism...but this isn't happening because they are all monsters. It's happening because Osaka just doesn't have the personality to be happy like this...and least for now, but time is ticking.

And tennis is such a mental game - so much harder mentally than a game like basketball. Why didn't Monica Seles go back and dominate the world after she got stabbed? Not because she wasn't physically able, it was the mental strength she never recaptured. She was known as someone with absolute laser focus who growing up as a prospect often didn't even pay attention to the score (Chris Evert was similar). After the attack, it was like she could never stop thinking about all that was around her.

And even beyond that, it's so, so common for great tennis prospects to never reach that top echelon. You can scout the body much easier than the head. An incredible physical talent may have so much success against his/her age group that he/she has little reason to doubt their capabilities. And then you get to the pros, and if you have any mental vulnerability, you're going to hit a wall it's no given you'll be able to climb over.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions. Tennis is my dad's favorite sport so I grew up with it even more than I grew up with any particular team sport.
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falcolombardi
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Re: PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics] 

Post#1280 » by falcolombardi » Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:38 am

Doctor MJ wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:Tennis is similar to hockey. Whenever I watch it I think, I should watch this more, this is an awesome sport, and then go 6 months without watching. I don't know much about Osaka but I find the ongoing story fascinating as it tells a lot about the modern athletes relations to fans and media.

Question for tennis fans: Is she treated different than the other mostly white tennis players?
Questions for everyone:
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a male athlete acted like Osaka?
What do you think the media/fan reaction would be if a white athlete acted like Osaka?


So, I think the first thing is this:

Osaka gets way more attention than she would otherwise get if she looked different. Call it the Tiger Woods phenomenon. Literally impossible for a white golfer to get as much attention as Tiger got. Why? Because golfers are White, and he's not. For a converse example: Consider Larry Bird who has regularly seen his collectibles go for more than Magic Johnson. Why? Because basketball players are Black, and he's not. Or Jeremy Lin for that matter. (And of course the Williams sisters in tennis.)

When you're a spearhead. It matters to people. Osaka is biracial with a country of origin that hasn't ever produced a dominant player before.

Then there's the attractiveness angle. If I say the name "Anna Kournikova" y'all will know. Why? Not because she was good at tennis - she never won a single professional tournament as a singles player, not Grand Slam tournaments here, she never won even a minor tournament. You know her because she was beautiful. Osaka is beautiful too.

This along with her appearing to emerge as the next great female tennis player after a decade plus without any new great female tennis player emerging, caused her to become a phenomenon.

And what we're seeing is someone who very clearly has major anxiety issues - clear from Day 1 - getting more attention than almost everyone else in the world. It's a recipe for something to go sideways.

I do think the tennis media can be overly "gotcha", and can do so with patronizing, exploitive sexism...but this isn't happening because they are all monsters. It's happening because Osaka just doesn't have the personality to be happy like this...and least for now, but time is ticking.

And tennis is such a mental game - so much harder mentally than a game like basketball. Why didn't Monica Seles go back and dominate the world after she got stabbed? Not because she wasn't physically able, it was the mental strength she never recaptured. She was known as someone with absolute laser focus who growing up as a prospect often didn't even pay attention to the score (Chris Evert was similar). After the attack, it was like she could never stop thinking about all that was around her.

And even beyond that, it's so, so common for great tennis prospects to never reach that top echelon. You can scout the body much easier than the head. An incredible physical talent may have so much success against his/her age group that he/she has little reason to doubt their capabilities. And then you get to the pros, and if you have any mental vulnerability, you're going to hit a wall it's no given you'll be able to climb over.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions. Tennis is my dad's favorite sport so I grew up with it even more than I grew up with any particular team sport.


unrelated but how much do you think Novak unvaxiness will affect his legacy?

i dont mean just in the sense od the majors he is losing on, but the "he affected his career by his own stubborness"kinda like how kyrie screwed over the nets best championship chance this season (so far)

even if he still ends (unlikely?) up as the biggest tournament winner, is that gonna be somethingh thst will affect his career perception as a competitor?

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