Was Nash's defense really bad enough for him to be largely ignored in the GOAT peaks conversations?

[Im Your Father]

The Suns were horrible at playing team defense. They had some individual on-ball guys that could defend but there were so many breakdowns and poor rim protection. If Nash were a ~15% better defender would they have won a title? Maybe.

The Suns were really more of an average defense though, 13th in 07, 16th in 06 and 17th in 05. Realistically I'd say that having STAT as an all time level bad defender at the 5 was by far their biggest problem on that end.

[sp6r=underrated]

The Suns were horrible at playing team defense. They had some individual on-ball guys that could defend but there were so many breakdowns and poor rim protection. If Nash were a ~15% better defender would they have won a title? Maybe.

The Suns were really more of an average defense though, 13th in 07, 16th in 06 and 17th in 05. Realistically I'd say that having STAT as an all time level bad defender at the 5 was by far their biggest problem on that end.

But placing him at the 5 played a major role in juicing their offense.

[cupcakesnake]

The Suns were horrible at playing team defense. They had some individual on-ball guys that could defend but there were so many breakdowns and poor rim protection. If Nash were a ~15% better defender would they have won a title? Maybe.

The Suns were really more of an average defense though, 13th in 07, 16th in 06 and 17th in 05. Realistically I'd say that having STAT as an all time level bad defender at the 5 was by far their biggest problem on that end.

But placing him at the 5 played a major role in juicing their offense.

It definitely played a role but I think we can ask how major that role was.

With that Amar'e injury year (2006), we saw Phoenix go from an insane offense (something like a +8 rOrtg) to just a really really good one (around +5), and then go back up when Amar'e returned. That being said, the Suns made the Western Conference Finals in 2006 with Diaw in the place of Amar'e and were still an elite offensive team.

Basically Nash + Amar'e produced an offensive rating of 121.8. A totally insane number. But replace Amar'e with basically any big man (Diaw, Steven Hunter, Tim Thomas) and the offense has a basement of about 113, still really strong. Nash with Diaw and Tim Thomas produced a higher offensive rating than Amar'e ever did in any combo. Play Amar'e without Nash and there was nothing special happening on offense. Basically, yes, Amar'e was awesome and the best offensive partner for Nash. But Nash was clearly driving the bus. All the on-off data paints Nash and Marion as by far the most indispensable duo on the Suns. Nash and Marion without Amar'e was a still elite offense, with good defense (105 drtg over those first 3 years). Add Amar'e in, and yeah the offense goes through the roof, but the defense rises with it in a bad way. Nash and Stoudemire without Marion barely registered a positive net rating.

[sp6r=underrated]

The Suns were really more of an average defense though, 13th in 07, 16th in 06 and 17th in 05. Realistically I'd say that having STAT as an all time level bad defender at the 5 was by far their biggest problem on that end.

But placing him at the 5 played a major role in juicing their offense.

It definitely played a role but I think we can ask how major that role was.

With that Amar'e injury year (2006), we saw Phoenix go from an insane offense (something like a +8 rOrtg) to just a really really good one (around +5), and then go back up when Amar'e returned. That being said, the Suns made the Western Conference Finals in 2006 with Diaw in the place of Amar'e and were still an elite offensive team.

Basically Nash + Amar'e produced an offensive rating of 121.8. A totally insane number. But replace Amar'e with basically any big man (Diaw, Steven Hunter, Tim Thomas) and the offense has a basement of about 113, still really strong. Nash with Diaw and Tim Thomas produced a higher offensive rating than Amar'e ever did in any combo. Play Amar'e without Nash and there was nothing special happening on offense. Basically, yes, Amar'e was awesome and the best offensive partner for Nash. But Nash was clearly driving the bus. All the on-off data paints Nash and Marion as by far the most indispensable duo on the Suns. Nash and Marion without Amar'e was a still elite offense, with good defense (105 drtg over those first 3 years). Add Amar'e in, and yeah the offense goes through the roof, but the defense rises with it in a bad way. Nash and Stoudemire without Marion barely registered a positive net rating.

I fully agree Nash was the driver of that bus. My main point was that some of the blame for Amar'e's defense, which was mainly his fault, is tied to Phoenix's strategy of sacrificing some D to get offensive advantages.