2021-22 regular season thread

[JonFromVA]

The problem is he scores 20 points in 4 games and then disappears in 4 games. It's feast or famine. Mobley and Lauri need to be dropping 15 points every game. Especially with Allen out.

That's a pretty high bar for this team unless you're also handing out 20 shots per game.

Garland and Sexton can do it, but we're well past a time when Love could do it and that's about it give or take the occasional hot streak from some of the other guys.

Unless you're a defensive specialist, you should be able to get 15ppg on 15 shots, especially if you're a decent 3-point shooter. A .500 TS% isn't even good.

I was shooting for your first number ... for a consistent minimum of 20pts, which requires a higher average output. Who knows what their TS% would be with increased shot volume, but presumably it would drop.

But good job, I think everyone you guys picked on had a good game against the Clippers even if we barely beat their injured/resting squad on a second night of a back-to-back at home in overtime while overplaying guys still dealing with injuries.

geez

JBB even dusted off Windler!

[JonFromVA]

It's borderline inexplicable how little run he's gotten as G League guys get more playing time.

I need to know why, it's killing me but tonight he showed he can be more than a dude who stands in the corner. His length and activity give him a bunch of upside all over the court.

Maybe they are keeping him shelved to be Cedis replacement and other teams done come sniffing around?

Dude won’t shoot. 12 minutes 2 FGAs…

The first clip I think is the pickup play where the tv camera panned…
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OPP_PTS_PAINT&GameID=0022101020&PlayerID=1629685&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

Every point you guys have made about Windler is fair, and I think his hustle and effort has been there every time he's gotten a chance. They recently gave him a bunch of games down at the Gleague, and my presumption is that it comes down to his shooting and the chicken & the egg problem his inaccuracy and nervousness causes.

In other words, while he only got 2 shots in this game if he looked comfortable shooting them and made 1 or 2, the odds of him getting another shot would be higher even without Stevens getting in foul trouble and Cedi mostly being ignored.

Maybe just maybe if he then got comfortable with the stand in the corner role and carved out some minutes, they'd expand on that and let him move around - but it just seems like he's facing a cliff when we're used to seeing young players get their minutes gift wrapped.

Can effort alone carry him? I'm not sure, heck Stevens looks more confident on his 3pt shot than Windler does right now.

[toooskies]

I need to know why, it's killing me but tonight he showed he can be more than a dude who stands in the corner. His length and activity give him a bunch of upside all over the court.

Maybe they are keeping him shelved to be Cedis replacement and other teams done come sniffing around?

Dude won’t shoot. 12 minutes 2 FGAs…

The first clip I think is the pickup play where the tv camera panned…
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OPP_PTS_PAINT&GameID=0022101020&PlayerID=1629685&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game

Every point you guys have made about Windler is fair, and I think his hustle and effort has been there every time he's gotten a chance. They recently gave him a bunch of games down at the Gleague, and my presumption is that it comes down to his shooting and the chicken & the egg problem his inaccuracy and nervousness causes.

In other words, while he only got 2 shots in this game if he looked comfortable shooting them and made 1 or 2, the odds of him getting another shot would be higher even without Stevens getting in foul trouble and Cedi mostly being ignored.

Maybe just maybe if he then got comfortable with the stand in the corner role and carved out some minutes, they'd expand on that and let him move around - but it just seems like he's facing a cliff when we're used to seeing young players get their minutes gift wrapped.

Can effort alone carry him? I'm not sure, heck Stevens looks more confident on his 3pt shot than Windler does right now.

Some positive notes:

To give Windler his due, he was averaging a double-double down in the G-league and recorded 5 rebounds in his 12 minutes on the court yesterday. Much needed when Mobley was kept off the glass by Zubac and Hartenstein. I loved the volleyball spike that he had no business getting to that turned into an open 3 opportunity for Markkanen (I think he missed that one, but still-- great effort by Windler).

Also loved the Goodwin block, he always seems to make a good defensive play when he's out there.

Okoro comes in with a great overall game, he made a few great passes in the lane.

Garland gets fouled a lot even when he's just shooting his floater, but because he's not going at the rim they don't call it very often. JBB needs to get on the refs early to watch the defense on those plays.

I also won't be too hard on Windler for not getting shots off when Goodwin, Osman, and Davis went a combined 0-0 in 26 minutes. The offense in general has fit issues.

[KuruptedCav]

I need to know why, it's killing me but tonight he showed he can be more than a dude who stands in the corner. His length and activity give him a bunch of upside all over the court.

Maybe they are keeping him shelved to be Cedis replacement and other teams done come sniffing around?

Dude won’t shoot. 12 minutes 2 FGAs…

The first clip I think is the pickup play where the tv camera panned…
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OPP_PTS_PAINT&GameID=0022101020&PlayerID=1629685&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game


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He was never passed the ball and the time he was passed the ball in shooting position, he shot. Can we see the other plays where he got a tip out offensive rebound, or when he ripped the ball from Zubac under the rim or when he got like 3 deflections.

Im not sure why you think the 18th man off the bench should come into the game and take shots at the same rate Darius Garland does.

Winder- +3
Goowin- -1
Stevens- -5

In 12.4 minutes:
15 touches
10 of them in the front court
2 dribbles
Avg. time of possession 1.35 seconds
2 shots

Compare to Stevens:
In 12.7 minutes
11 touches
5 of them in the front court
28 dribbles
Avg. time of possession 3.37 seconds
5 shots

It’s not about position on bench. Windler can shoot when he shoots. When players shoot, defenders close out, and that opens up opportunities for assists, offensive rebounds, etc.

It’s the same issue we have with Okoro not shooting, but Windler doesn’t come with Okoro’s ability to defend multiple positions at a high level.

If he wants to play, he needs to shoot. There is no reason Dylan Windler with the 2nd unit isn’t shooting at the same rate as Lauri Markkanen with the first.


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[KuruptedCav]

Don’t get me wrong, I like Dylan Windler. I like his hustle and I want him to do well. But he needs to know the next shot is going in and that if he doesn’t take it, he’s costing his team points.

Let the person passing it to him worry about generating the assist. I don’t care if Evan Mobley is closing on you, you shoot the ball and force them to make the play.


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[LivingLegend]

Dude won’t shoot. 12 minutes 2 FGAs…

The first clip I think is the pickup play where the tv camera panned…
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OPP_PTS_PAINT&GameID=0022101020&PlayerID=1629685&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

He was never passed the ball and the time he was passed the ball in shooting position, he shot. Can we see the other plays where he got a tip out offensive rebound, or when he ripped the ball from Zubac under the rim or when he got like 3 deflections.

Im not sure why you think the 18th man off the bench should come into the game and take shots at the same rate Darius Garland does.

Winder- +3
Goowin- -1
Stevens- -5

This. Sans LBJ, the Cavs have been bad at getting shooters the ball when open. It's kind of ridiculous too because they don't have an embarrassment of riches as far as having too many good shooters. There are three, maybe four guys, on the entire roster who I trust to be consistent from 3 point range.

They seemed to be good at the high pick and pop with Love/Lauri but outside of that, its nothing. Did you see how many open 3s the Clippers got just from simple drive/kick on the wing? The Cavs dont have that play.

[jbk1234]

Dude won’t shoot. 12 minutes 2 FGAs…

The first clip I think is the pickup play where the tv camera panned…
https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=OPP_PTS_PAINT&GameID=0022101020&PlayerID=1629685&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&flag=1&sct=plot&section=game


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

He was never passed the ball and the time he was passed the ball in shooting position, he shot. Can we see the other plays where he got a tip out offensive rebound, or when he ripped the ball from Zubac under the rim or when he got like 3 deflections.

Im not sure why you think the 18th man off the bench should come into the game and take shots at the same rate Darius Garland does.

Winder- +3
Goowin- -1
Stevens- -5

In 12.4 minutes:
15 touches
10 of them in the front court
2 dribbles
Avg. time of possession 1.35 seconds
2 shots

Compare to Stevens:
In 12.7 minutes
11 touches
5 of them in the front court
28 dribbles
Avg. time of possession 3.37 seconds
5 shots

It’s not about position on bench. Windler can shoot when he shoots. When players shoot, defenders close out, and that opens up opportunities for assists, offensive rebounds, etc.

It’s the same issue we have with Okoro not shooting, but Windler doesn’t come with Okoro’s ability to defend multiple positions at a high level.

If he wants to play, he needs to shoot. There is no reason Dylan Windler with the 2nd unit isn’t shooting at the same rate as Lauri Markkanen with the first.


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Windler can and should try to do more offensively. But Stevens should try to do less.

[ijspeelman]

I think we can gripe about specific players and how they are fitting on our offense, but I think the main problem on offense is the lack of off-ball movement. Most plays consist of a single screen off-ball then the ball handler takes a screen and tried to drive. If that doesn't work, we reset and screen and roll/pop again and again until the end of the possession. Our other play is to try to get the ball in the post to Love, which can work when Garland is the one passing to him, but otherwise its 10-15 seconds of passing around to shift the defense so we can toss the ball to Love who has to run farther from the rim to catch it.

For both of these plays, while it happens three players sit at the three point line waiting to be passed the ball. This creates a help defender who can either shut down the drive or "double" (sit near the side of the key to stop an easy drive) Love in the post. These are the two major plays we run when Garland is in versus out.

Imagine we have one of these same plays, but the weakside players are attempting pin downs, off-ball screens, or some kind of movement to both free up the lane and/or open up a possible shot/cut. This can take a lot of the ball handling load off of Garland (I love when I see plays where Garland runs off ball; it normally ends in a good shot or drive for Garland to either pass or shoot, the secondary ball handler to drive in, or a cutter who is freed by Garland's gravity). This is why I was excited for LeVert to join this team because he has shown strengths in his passes while driving and would be able to feed a cutter or pass it out for a three. LeVert could also benefit from running around screens off ball for a catch and shoot or a drive into the paint. More dynamics actions for our offense makes the defense think just a bit more and can free up more open looks.

Yes, missing open 3 pointers for our current roster happens, but most of our offensive problems stem from lack of creativity. The defense knows what we do day in and day out so they don't have much to react to when Garland does not have the ball.

[JonFromVA]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

[toooskies]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

In general we trade turnovers for high-percentage shots in the paint. We're among the league leaders in FG% and attempts within 5 feet.

And in general, our TO% has gone from almost 16% in October and November to right around the league average 14% in every month since-- although I wouldn't be surprised if the league TO% also goes down throughout the year, so we're probably higher than average but probably not by too much. And that's despite Garland's TOs going up since he took on his new scoring load.

But our team eFG% isn't that high overall because we're below average or average everywhere else on the court. Our second best shooter in the midrange is... Lamar Stevens maybe? Allen and Mobley have potential there but need to develop.

But yes, our offense has bogged down a bit with all the injuries. Not a lot of movement outside the primary pick and rolls, except without Allen, those screens aren't creating much room for DG either.

[jbk1234]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

In general we trade turnovers for high-percentage shots in the paint. We're among the league leaders in FG% and attempts within 5 feet.

And in general, our TO% has gone from almost 16% in October and November to right around the league average 14% in every month since-- although I wouldn't be surprised if the league TO% also goes down throughout the year, so we're probably higher than average but probably not by too much. And that's despite Garland's TOs going up since he took on his new scoring load.

But our team eFG% isn't that high overall because we're below average or average everywhere else on the court. Our second best shooter in the midrange is... Lamar Stevens maybe? Allen and Mobley have potential there but need to develop.

But yes, our offense has bogged down a bit with all the injuries. Not a lot of movement outside the primary pick and rolls, except without Allen, those screens aren't creating much room for DG either.

If you're trading turnovers for high percentage shots, without factoring in your turnovers, then your shots aren't as high percentage as you'd like to believe.

[toooskies]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

In general we trade turnovers for high-percentage shots in the paint. We're among the league leaders in FG% and attempts within 5 feet.

And in general, our TO% has gone from almost 16% in October and November to right around the league average 14% in every month since-- although I wouldn't be surprised if the league TO% also goes down throughout the year, so we're probably higher than average but probably not by too much. And that's despite Garland's TOs going up since he took on his new scoring load.

But our team eFG% isn't that high overall because we're below average or average everywhere else on the court. Our second best shooter in the midrange is... Lamar Stevens maybe? Allen and Mobley have potential there but need to develop.

But yes, our offense has bogged down a bit with all the injuries. Not a lot of movement outside the primary pick and rolls, except without Allen, those screens aren't creating much room for DG either.

If you're trading turnovers for high percentage shots, without factoring in your turnovers, then your shots aren't as high percentage as you'd like to believe.

You're not wrong!

[JonFromVA]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

In general we trade turnovers for high-percentage shots in the paint. We're among the league leaders in FG% and attempts within 5 feet.

And in general, our TO% has gone from almost 16% in October and November to right around the league average 14% in every month since-- although I wouldn't be surprised if the league TO% also goes down throughout the year, so we're probably higher than average but probably not by too much. And that's despite Garland's TOs going up since he took on his new scoring load.

But our team eFG% isn't that high overall because we're below average or average everywhere else on the court. Our second best shooter in the midrange is... Lamar Stevens maybe? Allen and Mobley have potential there but need to develop.

But yes, our offense has bogged down a bit with all the injuries. Not a lot of movement outside the primary pick and rolls, except without Allen, those screens aren't creating much room for DG either.

Some of it is just spacing - which affects those entry passes and trying to pass in to or out of a crowd of defenders.

As much as we'd like to see more off-ball movement, it would likely (in the short term) result in even more to's.

[ijspeelman]

Watch on YouTube

(Ignore horrific video quality... at work and recorded screen with powerpoint)

I just wanted to show this play I noticed the Cavaliers run last night that showcased what LeVert or Garland off-ball movement can do for the offense. In this play, Cavs run a double screen for LeVert on the weakside which occupies all three weakside defenders from allowing a Moses rim run, Love three/post-up mismatch, or an open LeVert three/drive. Windler is also stationed on the strongside corner so his defender has to think about not giving an open look or cut to the basket.

With all that set-up, Goodwin handles the ball at the top of the three point line and positions his body in a way that looks like he is just looking for a pass to the weakside. He then quickly drives into the lane and draws free throws without any help defense crowding him at the rim or blocking him from driving at the rim.

I have not seen them do any of these plays (to my knowledge) in any of the possessions with Garland and LeVert on the floor, but I think this simple play shows how effective this off-ball movement can help generate easier offensive looks.

[JonFromVA]

Watch on YouTube

(Ignore horrific video quality... at work and recorded screen with powerpoint)

I just wanted to show this play I noticed the Cavaliers run last night that showcased what LeVert or Garland off-ball movement can do for the offense. In this play, Cavs run a double screen for LeVert on the weakside which occupies all three weakside defenders from allowing a Moses rim run, Love three/post-up mismatch, or an open LeVert three/drive. Windler is also stationed on the strongside corner so his defender has to think about not giving an open look or cut to the basket.

With all that set-up, Goodwin handles the ball at the top of the three point line and positions his body in a way that looks like he is just looking for a pass to the weakside. He then quickly drives into the lane and draws free throws without any help defense crowding him at the rim or blocking him from driving at the rim.

I have not seen them do any of these plays (to my knowledge) in any of the possessions with Garland and LeVert on the floor, but I think this simple play shows how effective this off-ball movement can help generate easier offensive looks.

The video shows as 'private', but it's nice to see JBB trying some new things. Moses Brown showed promise and hopefully has earned some more opportunities.

[ijspeelman]

Watch on YouTube

(Ignore horrific video quality... at work and recorded screen with powerpoint)

I just wanted to show this play I noticed the Cavaliers run last night that showcased what LeVert or Garland off-ball movement can do for the offense. In this play, Cavs run a double screen for LeVert on the weakside which occupies all three weakside defenders from allowing a Moses rim run, Love three/post-up mismatch, or an open LeVert three/drive. Windler is also stationed on the strongside corner so his defender has to think about not giving an open look or cut to the basket.

With all that set-up, Goodwin handles the ball at the top of the three point line and positions his body in a way that looks like he is just looking for a pass to the weakside. He then quickly drives into the lane and draws free throws without any help defense crowding him at the rim or blocking him from driving at the rim.

I have not seen them do any of these plays (to my knowledge) in any of the possessions with Garland and LeVert on the floor, but I think this simple play shows how effective this off-ball movement can help generate easier offensive looks.

The video shows as 'private', but it's nice to see JBB trying some new things. Moses Brown showed promise and hopefully has earned some more opportunities.

Oops… meant to mark unlisted. Should be viewable now.

[toooskies]

Over his last 40 games, Okoro is shooting 38.7% from three.

Okoro hasn't had a month with a TS% under 60% since November.

After a brutal start he has been lowest-key good as an offensive option.

[ijspeelman]

Over his last 40 games, Okoro is shooting 38.7% from three.

Okoro hasn't had a month with a TS% under 60% since November.

After a brutal start he has been lowest-key good as an offensive option.

If this 38ish percent 3 point shooting can stick, if he could double his volume (currently 2.3/gm according to https://www.nba.com/stats/players/catch-shoot/?sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FGA&dir=1) in shooting catch and shoot threes you can imagine him shooting 5-5.5 a game on at least 35% shooting percentage (similar to what Cedi currently does; 5.7/(Okoro's MP/G) on 35%). That'd slot Okoro into that 3 and D type player pretty easily. I definitely think Okoro still has the potential to be a little more than a 3 and D player with his slashing ability, but that remains to be seen.

[toooskies]

Some good wins from the Cavs over the weekend! It looks like we're starting to figure out how to play without JA on the floor. Lauri moving from SF to C, Mobley staying put at PF and playing "free safety" on the court, and Stevens jumping into Dean Wade's spot.

It's good to get this lineup some minutes regardless, it should be useful in the playoffs if we want strong defenders on two wings, like the Bulls with LaVine/DeRozan or the Celtics with Brown/Tatum.

[LivingLegend]

We're 28th in the league in turnovers, which is a sign even the simple stuff we're running is problematic.

I dont think it has anything to do with playcall, what I have noticed is that the Cavs are super prone to having mental/effort lapses.

There are so many turnovers in games from guys throwing lazy entry passes or handoffs on the perimeter. Guys on the receiving end not running towards the passer when they are stuck/trapped. As dumb as this sounds, not grabbing the pass with conviction (Mobley/Love) and the fact that they have the worst hands of any group in the NBA.

So many turnovers from fumbling, bumbling, stumbling over the ball. JUST GRAB IT. Squeeze it for god sake.

Mobley plays with a lot of finesse but man that ball seems to be a wet bar of soap whenever he is dribbling and he gets ripped in the post regularly because he dribbles the ball 4 ft. away from his body. The one team trait this Cavs roster lacks more than anything is strong hands.

I just need to see 1 game where we pass the ball with conviction and the receiver grab the pass with conviction.