MVP will be determined by tomorrow's Embiid v Jokic showdown

[KG Leonard]

And we were missing 3 starters which allowed you guys to triple Jokic and Barton was worthless. Of course you needed that triple because your supposed great defender had no chance against Jokic and fouled him as fast as I have ever seen someone get called for fouls. Not to mention the Nuggets beat the sixers in The 4th quarter with and without Jokic.

I need to dig up the numbers but Embiid almost always beats Jokic when they're on the court together. Relatively small sample but still significant. I like to whthink the 4th quarter would have panned out differently if not having to fly home from Orlando from an OT game the night before. I'm not here to slander Jokic but he certainly didn't outplay Embiid last night

Eh Embiid had him on points but Jokic basically topped everything else.

It was a draw if anything but people will point out that Jokic did what was needed in the 4th to win the game.

Yeah he sat on the bench with the towel, watched Cousins,Hyland hit 7 3s vs Philly bench +Embiid +Harden. Like a true MVP he didn't have to score before the last 45 seconds. He watched Nuggets bench was shockingly left open for 3s,lay ups by bad defence. This game wasnt about Embiid vs Jokic in the end it was 48 vs 14. 48 points is logically more than 14 by Niang and co....

[kuclas]

Look Jokic is having an incredible season. But he won’t win it for the same reasons guys like magic or bird didn’t win it every year. He didn’t top what he did the previous years. Wins/seeding etc. his scoring assist are down slightly. Just voter fatigue as well.

For all those saying he’s done it without Murray and MPJ. If he didn’t have those two guys. His scoring and assist or one of them should be up a lot more since he doesn’t have it.

Embiid hasn’t had Simmons all season (60 games?). Has had harden for 8 games? Tobias Harris barely playing like a top 70 nba player BEFORE the harden trade. Now playing like a top 100 nba player after the trade. So it’s not like embiid has had much help the first 60 games. Embiid scoring up. His assists are up.

It’s a close race. If Jokic didn’t win the mvp last year. I’d give it to Jokic this year. But it’s just what have you don’t better this season compared to last season

There is a reason guys like shaq Kobe Duncan etc don’t win it every year. Although I do think shaq should have a lot more mvp than his one mvp.

[Cubbies2120]

I need to dig up the numbers but Embiid almost always beats Jokic when they're on the court together. Relatively small sample but still significant. I like to whthink the 4th quarter would have panned out differently if not having to fly home from Orlando from an OT game the night before. I'm not here to slander Jokic but he certainly didn't outplay Embiid last night

Eh Embiid had him on points but Jokic basically topped everything else.

It was a draw if anything but people will point out that Jokic did what was needed in the 4th to win the game.

Yeah he sat on the bench with the towel, watched Cousins,Hyland hit 7 3s vs Philly bench +Embiid +Harden. Like a true MVP he didn't have to score before the last 45 seconds. He watched Nuggets bench was shockingly left open for 3s,lay ups by bad defence. This game wasnt about Embiid vs Jokic in the end it was 48 vs 14. 48 points is logically more than 14 by Niang and co....

While both Embiid/Jokic were on the court:

Jokic 14 pts,6 reb, 3 ast, 2 blks (both Embiid), 1 stl on 5/8 (63%) shooting with 0 fouls
Embiid 26 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 blks (neither Jokic), 1 stl on 9/16 (56%) shooting with 3 fouls

Jokic, as usual, has the better all around game and more efficient shooting game while both shared the floor. He actually played WORSE when Embiid was on the bench, shooting 38% during that time.

Embiid, as usual, scores more points on worse efficiency. He COULD NOT guard Jokic (63% shooting, 3 fouls drawn).

[Cubbies2120]

Look Jokic is having an incredible season. But he won’t win it for the same reasons guys like magic or bird didn’t win it every year. He didn’t top what he did the previous years. Wins/seeding etc. his scoring assist are down slightly. Just voter fatigue as well.

For all those saying he’s done it without Murray and MPJ. If he didn’t have those two guys. His scoring and assist or one of them should be up a lot more since he doesn’t have it.

Embiid hasn’t had Simmons all season (60 games?). Has had harden for 8 games? Tobias Harris barely playing like a top 70 nba player BEFORE the harden trade. Now playing like a top 100 nba player after the trade. So it’s not like embiid has had much help the first 60 games. Embiid scoring up. His assists are up.

It’s a close race. If Jokic didn’t win the mvp last year. I’d give it to Jokic this year. But it’s just what have you don’t better this season compared to last season

There is a reason guys like shaq Kobe Duncan etc don’t win it every year. Although I do think shaq should have a lot more mvp than his one mvp.

His AST/PTS are only down in raw number because he plays less minutes. He's averaging more per 36 minutes actually.

In games he plays, he's won 64% of them. Last year, with a better supporting cast, he won 65% of games he played (he played all 72 games, pretty much unheard of for modern big men).

[BelgradeNugget]

I need to dig up the numbers but Embiid almost always beats Jokic when they're on the court together. Relatively small sample but still significant. I like to think the 4th quarter would have panned out differently if not having to fly home from Orlando from an OT game the night before. I'm not here to slander Jokic but he certainly didn't outplay Embiid last night

This is a fair point. I just like to add that the Nuggets played 7 games in 10 nights counting this one. Maybe that could be explanation why Nuggets starters were not as good as 76ers starters. AG who is our 2nd best player with Murray and MPJ out, played only 20 mins because he was throwing up in locker room after 1st half. Maybe Nuggets bench players were more rested then 76ers because they don't play a lot of minutes usually. Those are all variables so I don't think you can make solid conclusion on this two players and teams based on one game.
I just like to add that it looks like 76ers really have bench problem. Is there any way they can improve it for the playoffs?

[Mickey8]

Jokic should have been more aggressive on the offense , he got Embiid in the foul trouble , Embiid couldn't guard Jokic without fouling him . Also Embiid should have fouled out when Jokic scored that dagger two points. Barton is the player who's hindering Jokic aggressiveness , Barton is the low iq player , who have zero chemistry with Jokic. Jokic actually was calling him out after the game few weeks ago. And also in this games Jokic was doubled a lot, every time he received the ball in the paint he was surrounded by the multiple defenders, Denver didn't double Embiid as much.

[Wolfgang630]

Jokic should have been more aggressive on the offense , he put Embiid in the foul trouble , Embiid couldn't guard Jokic without fouling him . Also Embiid should have fouled out when Jokic scored that dagger two points. Barton is the player who's hindering Jokic aggressiveness , Barton is the low iq player , who have zero chemistry with Jokic. Jokic actually was calling him out after the game few weeks ago.

I feel like Joker gets too nonchalant. He went off for 30 in Q4 and OT the other night. This is a reason some people don’t like him as MVP. They always bring up how dominant Embiid looks and how aggressive he is. Joker be looking so much more passive and trying to get guys 5-10 involved. I wished he went and shot more. He barely does face up jumpers and he’s good at them.

[Mickey8]

I know it sucks, but he's always like that, there are periods of the season when he barely shoots at all . As you pointed out he has such a great mid range game but he doesn't use it that much at all this season. All they need to get him in the pick and roll and pop on every other position and he could score at will from there. When Barton was out he stepped up his aggressiveness . Earlier in the season his teammates didn't know how to execute the simple pick and roll action with him, that's where he misses Murray the most but lately him and Morris have found something, its a lot better than the earlier in the season.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Eh Embiid had him on points but Jokic basically topped everything else.

It was a draw if anything but people will point out that Jokic did what was needed in the 4th to win the game.

Yeah he sat on the bench with the towel, watched Cousins,Hyland hit 7 3s vs Philly bench +Embiid +Harden. Like a true MVP he didn't have to score before the last 45 seconds. He watched Nuggets bench was shockingly left open for 3s,lay ups by bad defence. This game wasnt about Embiid vs Jokic in the end it was 48 vs 14. 48 points is logically more than 14 by Niang and co....

While both Embiid/Jokic were on the court:

Jokic 14 pts,6 reb, 3 ast, 2 blks (both Embiid), 1 stl on 5/8 (63%) shooting with 0 fouls
Embiid 26 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 blks (neither Jokic), 1 stl on 9/16 (56%) shooting with 3 fouls

Jokic, as usual, has the better all around game and more efficient shooting game while both shared the floor. He actually played WORSE when Embiid was on the bench, shooting 38% during that time.

Embiid, as usual, scores more points on worse efficiency. He COULD NOT guard Jokic (63% shooting, 3 fouls drawn).

Your argument falls apart when you realize that Embiid was more efficient (because FTs/3s are part of the efficiency equation)

[ty 4191]

Jokic should be the MVP this season. He's having a better season than his MVP season just last year. He's doing it with his best two teammates missing the entire season. Who else is doing this? No one. Easy vote for Jokic for MVP.

Great post!

Who else in NBA History has led their team to a .594 winning percentage without the team's second and third best players for an entire season?

[Cubbies2120]

Yeah he sat on the bench with the towel, watched Cousins,Hyland hit 7 3s vs Philly bench +Embiid +Harden. Like a true MVP he didn't have to score before the last 45 seconds. He watched Nuggets bench was shockingly left open for 3s,lay ups by bad defence. This game wasnt about Embiid vs Jokic in the end it was 48 vs 14. 48 points is logically more than 14 by Niang and co....

While both Embiid/Jokic were on the court:

Jokic 14 pts,6 reb, 3 ast, 2 blks (both Embiid), 1 stl on 5/8 (63%) shooting with 0 fouls
Embiid 26 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 blks (neither Jokic), 1 stl on 9/16 (56%) shooting with 3 fouls

Jokic, as usual, has the better all around game and more efficient shooting game while both shared the floor. He actually played WORSE when Embiid was on the bench, shooting 38% during that time.

Embiid, as usual, scores more points on worse efficiency. He COULD NOT guard Jokic (63% shooting, 3 fouls drawn).

Your argument falls apart when you realize that Embiid was more efficient (because FTs/3s are part of the efficiency equation)

Does it? Because here's their TS% when you factor in FTs and 3s (only including time when they shared the court):

Embiid: 69.74%
Jokic: 71.72%

So, whose argument just fell apart there? I'm expecting you to ignore this rebuttal. You can do the math yourself - here's the formula:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=TS%25%20%2D%20True%20Shooting%20Percentage%3B,is%20FGA%20%2B%200.44%20*%20FTA.

Search for "TS%"

[GeorgeMarcus]

While both Embiid/Jokic were on the court:

Jokic 14 pts,6 reb, 3 ast, 2 blks (both Embiid), 1 stl on 5/8 (63%) shooting with 0 fouls
Embiid 26 pts, 5 reb, 2 ast, 2 blks (neither Jokic), 1 stl on 9/16 (56%) shooting with 3 fouls

Jokic, as usual, has the better all around game and more efficient shooting game while both shared the floor. He actually played WORSE when Embiid was on the bench, shooting 38% during that time.

Embiid, as usual, scores more points on worse efficiency. He COULD NOT guard Jokic (63% shooting, 3 fouls drawn).

Your argument falls apart when you realize that Embiid was more efficient (because FTs/3s are part of the efficiency equation)

Does it? Because here's their TS% when you factor in FTs and 3s (only including time when they shared the court):

Embiid: 69.74%
Jokic: 71.72%

So, whose argument just fell apart there? I'm expecting you to ignore this rebuttal. You can do the math yourself - here's the formula:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=TS%25%20%2D%20True%20Shooting%20Percentage%3B,is%20FGA%20%2B%200.44%20*%20FTA.

Search for "TS%"

Embiid's TS% for the game: 69.7%
Jokic's TS% for the game: 57.7%

Embiid was significantly more efficient. You're referencing the time they played on the floor together, but all you did was state raw FGs without the obviously relevant FTs/3pts.

[Cubbies2120]

Your argument falls apart when you realize that Embiid was more efficient (because FTs/3s are part of the efficiency equation)

Does it? Because here's their TS% when you factor in FTs and 3s (only including time when they shared the court):

Embiid: 69.74%
Jokic: 71.72%

So, whose argument just fell apart there? I'm expecting you to ignore this rebuttal. You can do the math yourself - here's the formula:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=TS%25%20%2D%20True%20Shooting%20Percentage%3B,is%20FGA%20%2B%200.44%20*%20FTA.

Search for "TS%"

Embiid's TS% for the game: 69.7%
Jokic's TS% for the game: 57.7%

Embiid was significantly more efficient. You're referencing the time they played on the floor together, but all you did was state raw FGs without the obviously relevant FTs/3pts.

No, I referenced their TS% when they faced each other. Here's a timeline of the argument:

"Embiid outplayed him during their time on the court together" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true.

"Embiid was more efficient when you consider FT/3Pt" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true in the context we were arguing about (time on the court together)

Your argument ("Embiid was better during their time on the court together") is now including stats that were compiled during times that they were NOT on the court together? I'm confused, why the shifting goalposts?

You went from "He was better when they were on the court together" to "Well if you include the time that Jokic was on the bench, or Embiid was on the bench, Embiid was more efficient against Denver's 2nd unit than Jokic was against Philly's"

[GeorgeMarcus]

Does it? Because here's their TS% when you factor in FTs and 3s (only including time when they shared the court):

Embiid: 69.74%
Jokic: 71.72%

So, whose argument just fell apart there? I'm expecting you to ignore this rebuttal. You can do the math yourself - here's the formula:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html#:~:text=TS%25%20%2D%20True%20Shooting%20Percentage%3B,is%20FGA%20%2B%200.44%20*%20FTA.

Search for "TS%"

Embiid's TS% for the game: 69.7%
Jokic's TS% for the game: 57.7%

Embiid was significantly more efficient. You're referencing the time they played on the floor together, but all you did was state raw FGs without the obviously relevant FTs/3pts.

No, I referenced their TS% when they faced each other. Here's a timeline of the argument:

"Embiid outplayed him during their time on the court together" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true.

"Embiid was more efficient when you consider FT/3Pt" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true in the context we were arguing about (time on the court together)

Your argument ("Embiid was better during their time on the court together") is now including stats that were compiled during times that they were NOT on the court together? I'm confused, why the shifting goalposts?

You went from "He was better when they were on the court together" to "Well if you include the time that Jokic was on the bench, or Embiid was on the bench, Embiid was more efficient against Denver's 2nd unit than Jokic was against Philly's"

Just look back at your post dude lol you stated fga/fgm and then drew a conclusion about efficiency. Nowhere in your argument did you present data on FTs and 3pts so I have no idea where your TS% calculation is coming from. I can tell you Jojo was +13 when sharing the court with Jokic last night, which continues a signifiant career-long trend. Like, very significant. I wish I could find the thread I posted about it a while back.

If you want your claim about TS% while sharing the court together to be taken seriously, you have to share all relevant data. Otherwise I'm very skeptic given their total TS% in the game, not to mention your general anti-Embiid agenda.

[Cubbies2120]

Embiid's TS% for the game: 69.7%
Jokic's TS% for the game: 57.7%

Embiid was significantly more efficient. You're referencing the time they played on the floor together, but all you did was state raw FGs without the obviously relevant FTs/3pts.

No, I referenced their TS% when they faced each other. Here's a timeline of the argument:

"Embiid outplayed him during their time on the court together" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true.

"Embiid was more efficient when you consider FT/3Pt" --> I posted the stats that showed that wasn't true in the context we were arguing about (time on the court together)

Your argument ("Embiid was better during their time on the court together") is now including stats that were compiled during times that they were NOT on the court together? I'm confused, why the shifting goalposts?

You went from "He was better when they were on the court together" to "Well if you include the time that Jokic was on the bench, or Embiid was on the bench, Embiid was more efficient against Denver's 2nd unit than Jokic was against Philly's"

Just look back at your post dude lol you stated fga/fgm and then drew a conclusion about efficiency. Nowhere in your argument did you present data on FTs and 3pts so I have no idea where your TS% calculation is coming from. I can tell you Jojo was +13 when sharing the court with Jokic last night, which continues a signifiant career-long trend. Like, very significant. I wish I could find the thread I posted about it a while back.

So, if you want your claim about TS% while sharing the court together to be taken seriously, you have to share all relevant data. Otherwise I'm very skeptic given their total TS% in the game, not to mention your general anti-Embiid agenda.

Sure thing! Here's the full data I used:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vT4EuRtTwlmsonBWwWYLM-T2JMg1fJhDclTTksuLLNUMXv-6hSb8sjoYv8-Rpizts9GXkJeolx7XlMm/pubhtml

I didn't structure it in a very pretty manner, but you can copy and paste it into your own sheet and make it look prettier if you'd like.

Col G+H indicate when each player was in - you can throw it into a sheet, and filter where Col G = Yes and Col H = Yes, and that'll show you everything that happened while the players were in.

BTW, If Embiid fouled someone (happened a lot), and then was subbed out between free throws, that still counts as points scored while he was on the court, since he caused the free throw attempt.

If you notice anything off in that data set (ex. a stat not recorded when it occurred), please let me know and I'll fix and re-calc.

[Asian Celtic]

Jokic 26 mins

29p 13rb 8ast 2stl 1blk.

Damn son