Re-Signed: The PJ Washington Jr. Thread (3yrs/$48m)

SWedd523 · Post #481 » by **SWedd523** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:14 am

I'm not in the habit of dogging guys out for doing what they're good at.

PJ is a completely different type of player from Harrell. He wasn't drafted to be a banger, was never really considered a mean dude or an above the rim type of guy.

He has always been best as a perimeter oriented pick/pop guy who can bang down low on defense from time to time.

Seems unfair (and kind of a lame excuse TBH) to complain that he isn't a different player.

Like, you wanna complain about his up and down effort? the dumb fouls? how if he's not hitting shots hes pretty much invisible on offense? Makes sense.

Next self fulfilling prophecy is going to be complaining about Terry not being a pass first guy and Harrell for not shooting threes.

Post #482 » by **BigSlam** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:21 am

SWedd523 wrote:I'm not in the habit of dogging guys out for doing what they're good at.

PJ is a completely different type of player from Harrell. He wasn't drafted to be a banger, was never really considered a mean dude or an above the rim type of guy.

At Kentucky PJ averaged 10.2 FGA per game.

Only 1.5 of them were 3PA per game.

He also averaged 8 rebounds per game.

He also averaged 5 FTA per game.

When he was drafted he was compared to players like David West and Paul Millsap, not Primoz Brezec.

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #483 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:20 pm

Slam, I really don't like PJ, but ... the game has changed. PFs almost all shoot 3s and do a lot of work on the perimeter. Just looking at per 48 min stats for all PFs sorted by scoring, PJ ranks 16th and has averaged 4.7 attempts per game this season. That's not way out of line for the guys above him. 5 guys averaged more, and even studs like Giannis averaged 3.9. There was only one guy in that range who didn't take many 3s - Brandon Clarke. That's it.

So flip this and ask what guarding guys who also shoot 3s will do. Think it might impact rebound numbers since PJ has to guard other perimeter guys? Of the guys above him, 6 had lower rebounding numbers per 48 than PJ. The outliers were Giannis, Randle, and Sabonis. The were the only ones averaging 10+ Rebounds per 48. If you drop that to 8, like PJ had in college, then you can add Pascal Siakam & John Collins to that list. Those are the ONLY NBA PFs averaging 8 and still scoring. That's it.

I'm totally going to give you FTs. PJ's definitely one of the worst there.

HornetJail · Post #484 » by **HornetJail** » Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:35 pm

PJ is fine, as long as your expectation is Marvin Williams and nothing more. He's a useful role player and that's ok. He was never really supposed to have a high ceiling to begin with.

Post #485 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:24 am

Vanderbilt_Grad wrote:Just looking at per 48 min stats for all PFs sorted by scoring.

Per 48 Vandy? Come on man, the only stat worse than +/- is when people toss up the per 48 stat.

There isn't a player in the league who plays 48mins per, so using that metric is just finessing the numbers. Heck, the player who plays the most MPG this season I think is VanVleet and he's around 37 or 38. So even the dude who plays the most MPG is still 10MPG off that 48MPG marker.

But if you want to go down that per 48 path, who are the 15 guys above PJ on that list and what else are they bringing to the table? You mentioned Giannis. It's not like his game is predicated on just jacking 3's though. He obviously does so much more - from creating his own shot to getting to the FT line to getting others involved with his passing to playing stellar defence. I mean, per 48 Giannis would average 41PPG, 16PG, 9APG, 2SPG, 2BPG. Same with Siakam and Sabonis. They aren't just taking 3's or rebounding at the same rate as PJ - Siakam creates his own shot and shots for others while putting pressure on the rim. Same with Sabonis. You're not really comparing PJ's game impact to guys like those - are you? Per 48 is an erroneous stat to use as a marker.

Look, I'm not opposed to a C/PF shooting 3's, in act I like it, but I don't want it to me the main thing they do. And really, that's what PJ has become. A catch and shoot 3 point shooter - even though that wasn't his profile in college and is not making use of his physical composition.

Really PJ is the same player as Kaminsky or Olynyk - except that PJ has much, much better measurables and athletic ability....not that it matters because doesn't use them if he is just floating around the arc.

I wonder if the worst thing that could have happened was that PJ hit those seven 3's in his debut game.

Post #486 » by **BigSlam** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:24 am

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:PJ is fine, as long as your expectation is Marvin Williams and nothing more. He's a useful role player and that's ok. He was never really supposed to have a high ceiling to begin with.

Dudeeeeeeeeeee. You're selling Williams way short IMO.

HornetJail · Post #487 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:03 am

BigSlam wrote:
KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:PJ is fine, as long as your expectation is Marvin Williams and nothing more. He's a useful role player and that's ok. He was never really supposed to have a high ceiling to begin with.

Dudeeeeeeeeeee. You're selling Williams way short IMO.

feel like you're romanticizing Marvin a bit here if you think Marvin was tiers higher than PJ as a player, all things considered.

Post #488 » by **Diop** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:10 am

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
BigSlam wrote:
KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:PJ is fine, as long as your expectation is Marvin Williams and nothing more. He's a useful role player and that's ok. He was never really supposed to have a high ceiling to begin with.

Dudeeeeeeeeeee. You're selling Williams way short IMO.

feel like you're romanticizing Marvin a bit here if you think Marvin was tiers higher than PJ as a player, all things considered.

Marv was super reliable, an excellent defender, our choice to defend lebron/Durant and a great team player leader.
Skill wise pj can do what Marv did but effort/intangibles he doesn’t compare

Post #489 » by **JDR720** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:11 am

Marvin was smarter and better suited to sometimes play center since he's 6-9. Besides that, they have almost identical skillsets.

Bassman · Post #490 » by **Bassman** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:57 am

Slam, agree with you on PJ. He should be expected to gain ground, expand his game, assert himself. His motivation is highly questionable to me, based on the inconsistency and level of effort variable from game to game.

The time is coming to make a decision on this guy. I don’t see nearly enough yet to invest a raise. Bring me more PJ, and bring it every night.

Post #491 » by **yosemiteben** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:04 am

100% if PJ was not on the roster, we would be begging for someone with his skillset. Totally does not compute to complain about having a stretch PF on a rookie deal because he's not more of a true C at 6'7".

amcoolio · Post #492 » by **amcoolio** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 3:50 am

yosemiteben wrote:100% if PJ was not on the roster, we would be begging for someone with his skillset. Totally does not compute to complain about having a stretch PF on a rookie deal because he's not more of a true C at 6'7".

It's hard to say because we've barely seen him at PF. In theory he is a great partner with Harrell so I hope we get to see more of that the rest of the season.

I don't think we pay him after paying Miles and having McD and Thor in development, which is why a trade is most likely scenario

KembaWalker · Post #493 » by **KembaWalker** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:21 am

yosemiteben wrote:100% if PJ was not on the roster, we would be begging for someone with his skillset. Totally does not compute to complain about having a stretch PF on a rookie deal because he's not more of a true C at 6'7".

PJs problem is he doesn't really stretch the floor, defenses don't respect him from 3 which is why he shoots a decent percent. He's wide ass open all game

Post #494 » by **fatlever** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:36 am

marv was twice the player that pj has shown to be. much much better defender

Post #495 » by **Diop** » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:38 am

yosemiteben wrote:100% if PJ was not on the roster, we would be begging for someone with his skillset. Totally does not compute to complain about having a stretch PF on a rookie deal because he's not more of a true C at 6'7".

I mean yeah, as a cheap stretch 4 he fills a need, but I was hoping he could be more than Anthony Tolliver.

Snidely FC · Post #496 » by **Snidely FC** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:17 pm

yosemiteben wrote:100% if PJ was not on the roster, we would be begging for someone with his skillset. Totally does not compute to complain about having a stretch PF on a rookie deal because he's not more of a true C at 6'7".

recent headlines that the Heat plan to make a run at him don't surprise me; in his young career he's proven to have an inconsistent attention span, but he's only 23, and as one piece of a roster I agree with you that nba team's covet a stretch 4 like him; if the Hornets would get a legit 5 I think we'd all be more content with PJ's role

MPM · Post #497 » by **MPM** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:22 pm

Snidely FC wrote:if the Hornets would get a legit 5 I think we'd all be more content with PJ's role

This.

+ finding someone (anyone) to pull consistent effort/engagement out of him.

Post #498 » by **fatlever** » Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:52 pm

pj as situational 5 makes all the difference

Post #499 » by **yosemiteben** » Fri Apr 1, 2022 1:11 am

PJ has been balling at PF, very curious what happens with him this summer.

Bassman · Post #500 » by **Bassman** » Fri Apr 1, 2022 1:25 am

yosemiteben wrote:PJ has been balling at PF, very curious what happens with him this summer.

Shows flashes but still has many of the same bad habits we’ve seen over and over. A most dangerous combination that creates the potential for overpay.

If this front office was so risk averse as to offer Miles the lame extension he rightly turned down, I would hope they’d be REALLY wary of paying PJ too much. Yes he has skills, and IF he would apply himself to his craft, he might be something special. If, maybe, might….these are warning signs.