OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history

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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#101 » by BallerTalk » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:14 am

rtiff68 wrote:Lots of hot takes in this thread.

Before posting again, Google "Tony Buzbee," (he represents all of the women in the civil suit-- you read that right) then remind yourself that Watson has never been charged with anything-- when any of these incidents happened, or after a thorough investigation over the past year. Watson also hasn't settled.

I don't know what the actual truth is any more than any of us do, but this "case" has always been questionable at best.


Yeah, I didn't even want to mention the charlatan that Buzbee is because the simple facts that have been released alone make many of the accusations spurious at best. Add that glorified ambulance chaser and things get even shadier.

But as you can tell from some of the comments in this thread, most people don't bother to research allegations before chiming in.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#102 » by BallerTalk » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:33 am

Lucky Clover wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
Lucky Clover wrote:As a Texans fan, the best memory will be the 24-0 chokejob we had under him as QB in Kansas City a few years ago.

Thanks Defense.


FIFY


Nope. Thanks Deshaun as well as the rest of the team. Difference is the QB usually gets most to all of the credit for wins. I'm just keeping it consistent. He didn't help the cause at all after helping get that 24 pt lead. So yeah it's equally on him for that loss as much as the defense, special teams and coaching.


You're talking like someone who didn't watch the game.

That Watson led offense put 21 first quarter points on the board in route to a 24 - 0 fist half lead on the road. Then the defense completely collapsed, giving up 51 points in 3 quarters.
IIRC the offense even won the time-of-possession battle but that didn't matter when the Chief were running through the Texans' secondary like wet tissue paper.

You can play the jilted ex towards Watson if you choose but in THAT game the loss was squarely on the defense.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#103 » by Pharmcat » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:34 am

BallerTalk wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:Lots of hot takes in this thread.

Before posting again, Google "Tony Buzbee," (he represents all of the women in the civil suit-- you read that right) then remind yourself that Watson has never been charged with anything-- when any of these incidents happened, or after a thorough investigation over the past year. Watson also hasn't settled.

I don't know what the actual truth is any more than any of us do, but this "case" has always been questionable at best.


Yeah, I didn't even want to mention the charlatan that Buzbee is because the simple facts that have been released alone make many of the accusations spurious at best. Add that glorified ambulance chaser and things get even shadier.

But as you can tell from some of the comments in this thread, most people don't bother to research allegations before chiming in.



Buzbee talked a big game and failed miserably when it mattered. Not enough evidence for even a misdemeanor charge? Weak sauce .
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#104 » by Pharmcat » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:36 am

JayMKE wrote:I don't understand how you can go from sitting an entire season out with legal trouble to the largest guaranteed deal in history, the precedent being Goodell usually comes down on players based on perception of wrongdoing but not sure they'll want to do anything here.


Watson agent pulled a master stroke . Gotta give credit where it’s due.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#105 » by Pharmcat » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:38 am

Cactus Jack wrote:
TheLand13 wrote:An aspect of this trade that a lot of people are ignoring is that the Browns didn't give up any players in the deal. Three first round picks is a lot and that can't be ignored, but to be able to walk away from this deal with securing a top 5 QB in the league without giving up any players in the process is pretty significant for a team that is trying to contend right now. It's clear what Cleveland's goals are, and not giving up any players to acquire an elite QB is a step in the right direction.

Also, people who aren't familiar with the Browns current roster won't know that they still have some players that can yield decent returns. We all know Baker Mayfield is going to be traded now, but another player I think Cleveland should strongly consider trading is Kareem Hunt. He's still arguably a top ten RB in the league and will almost certainly give the Browns a nice return if they choose to trade him. Keeping him isn't necessarily a bad idea, but neither is trading him. They will still be one of the best running teams in the league.

With Antonio Brown wanting to join the Browns now (screw it, why not, he's a **** show but screw it give him a shot) and Cooper being traded there, Cleveland's offensive unit is looking incredibly stacked right now.

The value given up for Watson is fine. Very fair. In fact you can make a case that Denver gave up more for Wilson.

Spoiler:
Read on Twitter



According to the Jimmy Johnson trade chart:

Seattle gained 3303.5 through the Wilson trade. Houston gained 3368 by dealing Watson, but again - the Seahawks got three starting-caliber players


The issue is the contract. The AAV is $46m. All of which is guaranteed. It limits what the team can do going forward. It's no secret that it has become increasingly difficult to field a competitive team these days with QB's taking up such a large percentage of the cap (higher than 15%).

Cleveland is in a very unique window. They have a great opportunity to win now. The issue will be keeping the roster together long-term. From my understanding Watson has a very low base salary & cap number this year. Which will help. But as his cap number rises significantly in future years, it will no doubt become an issue for them.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/deshaun-watson-21753/


His base number is low this year to account for the suspension , which takes money from base #. His agent set this up beautifully . I think browns are banking on vets taking lower contract deals with them
To play with Watson to account for lack of picks and other inflexibility of their cap space
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#106 » by Pharmcat » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:40 am

azcatz11 wrote:
Dominater wrote:
bradybunch wrote:They'll regret that.

And I don't care about off the field accusations.

They'll regret it on the field.

My thoughts exactly. All my posts in this thread are speaking solely from an on the field perspective. You don't give a guy a record $$ contract AND fork over 3 1st round picks in one swoop unless your getting A GOAT candidate in return. And Watson is no GOAT candidate off field stuff not even withstanding. He's good. He's better than Baker. But again for that price and draft compensation I want an all timer


The NFL model is moving away from picks tho. Look at the Rams. They literally haven’t had a FRP in like 5 years? He’s way better than Baker also my man that’s like comparing a 1962 Cab to a bottle of Stoli. I think the Browns have a low key shot of winning it all this year


Picks are overrated . You get a good team and vets will come and play on lower deals for you.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#107 » by azcatz11 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:41 am

Pharmcat wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
Dominater wrote:My thoughts exactly. All my posts in this thread are speaking solely from an on the field perspective. You don't give a guy a record $$ contract AND fork over 3 1st round picks in one swoop unless your getting A GOAT candidate in return. And Watson is no GOAT candidate off field stuff not even withstanding. He's good. He's better than Baker. But again for that price and draft compensation I want an all timer


The NFL model is moving away from picks tho. Look at the Rams. They literally haven’t had a FRP in like 5 years? He’s way better than Baker also my man that’s like comparing a 1962 Cab to a bottle of Stoli. I think the Browns have a low key shot of winning it all this year


Picks are overrated . You get a good team and vets will come and play on lower deals for you.


Don’t put words in my mouth bro
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#108 » by sp6r=underrated » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:50 am

TheLand13 wrote:
Frank Dux wrote:that’s just gross. if i’m a Browns fan i’d be sick.


Have you met a Cleveland Browns fan? They don't care about any of that ****. They're so desperate for their teams success that they'll take literally anything they can get in a heartbeat.


It isn't just Cleveland fans. Let's be honest almost all sports fans will overlook egregious behavior if it helps their team.

My goto example is Leonard Little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Little#Manslaughter_conviction

He killed someone when he was drunk driving his car. And got DUIs after killing someone. But he was a good football player so he played a decade in the league
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#109 » by macNcheese3 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:57 am

lobosloboslobos wrote:lol. this is guaranteed to end badly.


thats the only thing thats guaranteed in this deal.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#110 » by BallerTalk » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:58 am

Pharmcat wrote:
BallerTalk wrote:
rtiff68 wrote:Lots of hot takes in this thread.

Before posting again, Google "Tony Buzbee," (he represents all of the women in the civil suit-- you read that right) then remind yourself that Watson has never been charged with anything-- when any of these incidents happened, or after a thorough investigation over the past year. Watson also hasn't settled.

I don't know what the actual truth is any more than any of us do, but this "case" has always been questionable at best.


Yeah, I didn't even want to mention the charlatan that Buzbee is because the simple facts that have been released alone make many of the accusations spurious at best. Add that glorified ambulance chaser and things get even shadier.

But as you can tell from some of the comments in this thread, most people don't bother to research allegations before chiming in.



Buzbee talked a big game and failed miserably when it mattered. Not enough evidence for even a misdemeanor charge? Weak sauce .


Buzbee is essentially a living caricature these days. He's a weasel of a lawyer who fancies himself an Allred.
And he's not above dirty politics as demonstrated during his mayoral run.

I didn't want to mention him because he's low hanging fruit when the facts of the accusations that have been made public so far already casts dubiety on some of the allegations.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#111 » by leolozon » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:11 pm

jpengland wrote:
dlts20 wrote:
DonaldSanders wrote:

Can you name 5 people who had 10+ people make claims against them? Watson has 22. Possible but unlikely these were all made up.

Yea but the difference is this is the most vague and easiest claim to make. That's why it was dropped. It's not like he was r@ping women. Anyone who gave him a massage can say that he dropped his towel and looked at me funny or some garbage. It's easy to be apart of that. There were others who gave him a massage that said he was professionalq


Yeah. I mean it's much more likely that 22 women have zero morals and made up complete bull than him being a creepy, entitled pervert.....


Yeah... Tells you all about the guy you responded to that he choses that it's "the easiest claim to make" and not realize that "it's the thoughest claim to prove". 22 claims!

Just the fact that he keeps asking so many different women to come massage him shows his true colors. How many guys did he ask ? How many times does he go back to the same massage therapist?

He admitted to contacting 50+ women, some of them not professionals, some of them he told what they should wear. He admitted to have sex with some of them, which proves he has sexual intention and did try to have sex with some of them. You think all of them wanted to? You think some of them didn't say no? You think someone who's a professional wants to get into this situation? I would never even think about having sex with a massage therapist, because I know how akward the situation could be for them and I'm a decent/normal human being. The fact that he admitted to it, logically means it's extremely likely that there was some wrongdoing, because it's more likely that he initiated the sex and not all massage therapists would have responded well to that.

He's a creep.

Even if it's impossible to prove that this man did anything wrong in a court of law, he's at best a creep who has exhibited predatory behaviour. Congrats to the people in this thread condoning this type of person. I personally think that accepting behaviour like this makes the world a more unsafe place for women and I will be happy when we all see this has inherently problematic.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#112 » by baldur » Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:39 pm

I am surprised they havent changed their name yet due to the era of political correctness and cancel culture. what about Cleveland Non-colours?
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#113 » by bamheat » Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:29 pm

If it wasn't clear enough that each of those 22 women were lying to take money from a black man then I don't know what to say.

Watson deserves every pennies. And I hope he keeps it.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#114 » by anotherhomer » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:05 pm

bamheat wrote:If it wasn't clear enough that each of those 22 women were lying to take money from a black man then I don't know what to say.

Watson deserves every pennies. And I hope he keeps it.


just because it wasn't criminal, doesn't make the conduct, ok.....
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OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#115 » by KuruptedCav » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:22 pm

1) This type of sexual assault allegation is almost impossible to prove. The nature of situation is a closed room with no witnesses other than Watson and the massage therapist.

2) Indicting a celebrity is not like indicting a non-celebrity. The resources they are able to put forth alone makes it difficult. The legal standard is whether the evidence, taken in the light most favorable to the prosecution, is sufficient to prove each element of a crime charged. This is the same standard a prosecutor has for the charging document and why the grand jury indictment rate is >99%.

Generally, any victim statement and some indirect substantiation (cell records, texts, appt log, etc.) is sufficient. This is why we have the “indict a ham sandwich joke.”

That he didn’t get indicted is a reflection of his legal counsel being present, there being no limitation on bias/conflict, the issue already being debated hotly in the community, the 9/12 juror requirement in TX, and the grand jury likely weighing the merits and not just the allegations (which often happens in high profile cases).

3) Not charged, no bill, not guilty, and innocent are three very different things. Al Capone was never charged with any of the murders, thefts, bootlegging, or racketeering he did. The Catholic Church isn’t rushing to canonize the Raketeering RobinHood.

4) Likewise, there is ample smoke and reason to believe a number of accounts. An example: The SI write up from “Mary” who is not filing a lawsuit is worth a read. Unlike complaints with limited information (simply the minimum necessary to move a case forward), it was well documented and vetted by Sports Illustrated with contemporaneous statements, direct messages, appointment logs from two therapists, payment verification, etc.

The pattern of finding dozens of different massage therapists is troubling. It’s not direct proof of anything or criminal, but generally you don’t doctor shop if you aren’t looking for a particular result.

5) I draw a delineation, fair or unfair, between visiting & soliciting someone at the Asian Sun Eastern Tug & Tap Massage Parlor and Memorial’s sports medicine and rehabilitation center. There’s always a power dynamic at play when you can make or break a person’s career.


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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#116 » by CobraCommander » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:48 pm

Watson and Kraft faced public shame and legal investigations of serious wrong doing but in the end winning football is more important...

Equality at its finest - rich & wealthy, black & white, owner & player, young & old equally can get sexual favors for money from masseuses and not have it negatively impact their earnings as long as they can win football games...

god bless Football and god bless America

Not exactly what we wanted progress to look like but...
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#117 » by rand » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:16 pm

- There are a large number of allegations, but there's also a large number of massage therapists who worked for Watson and attest to him treating them appropriately.

- There were no indictments from the allegations, but these alleged offenses are of a nature that would tend to leave no incriminating evidence.

- Once a civil actionable allegation is made against a wealthy celebrity, it becomes convenient for scammers to attach themselves to the action with their own accusation. However, it can just as easily be the case that public allegations of misconduct against a celebrity can encourage other actual victims to come forward as well.

- Shopping around to a large number of massage therapists could be interpreted as seeking sexual services, but even if that is true simply soliciting sex isn't what Watson is being accused of. Watson has acknowledged that sexual contact did occur in some cases, but claims it was always consensual. Just as it is understandable that there is no evidence to prove the allegations against him, it is also understandable that he cannot prove the sexual contact was consensual.

- The attorney for the accusers may have a reputation for sliminess but that's endemic to the profession and it's understandable that even honest accusers could be less concerned with what his detractors say than with his ability to get results.

As in many cases regarding sexual misconduct, I see both reason to suspect Watson and reason not to conclude he must probably be guilty. I think the chance that at least some of the allegations are true is definitely 0%, but I don't know if larger than 50%. From a non-legal standpoint, I don't know how to move forward with the irreducible uncertainty created by cases like "he said, she said" where the facts are inconclusive. It's certainly going to color how I see Watson from now on, but I can't agree that his career should be over.
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#118 » by bradybunch » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:26 pm

bamheat wrote:If it wasn't clear enough that each of those 22 women were lying to take money from a black man then I don't know what to say.

Watson deserves every pennies. And I hope he keeps it.


From a black man? :lol:

Celebrity whites aren't hit with these allegations?
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Re: OT: Browns give Deshaun Watson highest paid guaranteed contract in history 

Post#119 » by dlts20 » Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:23 pm

leolozon wrote:
jpengland wrote:
dlts20 wrote:Yea but the difference is this is the most vague and easiest claim to make. That's why it was dropped. It's not like he was r@ping women. Anyone who gave him a massage can say that he dropped his towel and looked at me funny or some garbage. It's easy to be apart of that. There were others who gave him a massage that said he was professionalq


Yeah. I mean it's much more likely that 22 women have zero morals and made up complete bull than him being a creepy, entitled pervert.....


Yeah... Tells you all about the guy you responded to that he choses that it's "the easiest claim to make" and not realize that "it's the thoughest claim to prove". 22 claims!

Just the fact that he keeps asking so many different women to come massage him shows his true colors. How many guys did he ask ? How many times does he go back to the same massage therapist?

He admitted to contacting 50+ women, some of them not professionals, some of them he told what they should wear. He admitted to have sex with some of them, which proves he has sexual intention and did try to have sex with some of them. You think all of them wanted to? You think some of them didn't say no? You think someone who's a professional wants to get into this situation? I would never even think about having sex with a massage therapist, because I know how akward the situation could be for them and I'm a decent/normal human being. The fact that he admitted to it, logically means it's extremely likely that there was some wrongdoing, because it's more likely that he initiated the sex and not all massage therapists would have responded well to that.

He's a creep.

Even if it's impossible to prove that this man did anything wrong in a court of law, he's at best a creep who has exhibited predatory behaviour. Congrats to the people in this thread condoning this type of person. I personally think that accepting behaviour like this makes the world a more unsafe place for women and I will be happy when we all see this has inherently problematic.

Hell yea they wanted to. He's a young rich NFL player. If you think that ig models turn them down on the regular then you haven't been with a lot of women. Again, you guys focus more on the complaints and not the fact that it was dropped. Most of the cases were civil originally Anyways

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