2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

Vampirate · Post #761 » by **Vampirate** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:14 pm

A look at the top 6 most notable rookies and how they are scoring.

Got Nuffin · Post #762 » by **Got Nuffin** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:19 pm

I wouldn't put Wagner in the same tier as Cade, Mobley and Barnes. Those 3 could be franchise altering talents.

Cade's turnovers aren't that big an issue imo. Call it getting used to NBA defence, and in any case the benefits of his style of play outweigh the turnovers. Likewise, anyone saying Barnes lacks playmaking literally has no idea what they are talking about considering he has started at point guard at times for a playoff-bound team, and has looked fantastic doing it. I wouldn't be too surprised to be Barnes regularly at the 1 and FVV at 2 at all next season. His shooting is a weakness but like Cade, he is a rookie who cares - not dealbreakers at this stage.

The second tier of Wagner, Kuminga Giddey (and Green?) is way too close to call. Wagner has the others on production at the moment but the other two are younger. GIddey handles and passes like a 6ft point guard at 6'9 and Kuminga is the most explosive and athletic guy in the draft. I wouldn't be too sure about Wagner being the winner in that group long term, although he does have potential to be an All Star one day for sure.

LivingLegend · Post #763 » by **LivingLegend** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:23 pm

How many other 7ft bigs are capable of this dribbling/footwork..... honestly

Read on Twitter

?t=JgNJ3W22wVbiDgJhCYMfbg&s=19

djsunyc · Post #764 » by **djsunyc** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:28 pm

roy is a vote by broadcasters and journalists. alot of them don't watch all these players and go by media narrative or box scores. forget that.

the more pertinent question is if you had the #1 pick, which guy are you taking?

my pick would always be the iso scoring/playmaking wing that can go north/south b/c that's the type of player that more often than not, not only gets you to contender status, but gets you the chip.

to me that's scottie barnes.

regardless of defense, mobley is in the chris bosh offensive mold - he's not bringing it up, iso'ing half court to playmake or score so he will always be the "robin" on offense.

cade can become an iso north/south playmaking guy - the only drawback in comparision to barnes is that he's shorter and will have a tougher time mismatch hunting in the playoffs.

i look at it this way...

barnes is in the kawhi/giannis/lebron mold.
mobley is in the bosh/kg mold.
cade is in the brandon roy mold.

all great players but the group that leads the team to the promise land is the mold which scottie barnes belongs to.

LoveMyRaps · Post #765 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:50 pm

LivingLegend wrote:How many other 7ft bigs are capable of this dribbling/footwork..... honestly

Read on Twitter
?t=JgNJ3W22wVbiDgJhCYMfbg&s=19

Embiid comes to mind. But that's what makes Mobley a rare talent. Not many you can name with that sort of skillset given his height.

MotownMadness · Post #766 » by **MotownMadness** » Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:56 pm

Rooting for Barnes to win it at this point. Cade is clearly out in my opinion. But i like that i just wasn't expecting this from Barnes.

whitehops · Post #767 » by **whitehops** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:12 am

i actually think a number of raps fans would be able to write a pretty good fantasy novel. after the raps last game i saw this clip posted a bunch of times:

i hope that raps fans realize that anyone who watches cade, wagner or green regularly wouldn't even realize what the highlight was. those three do step backs multiple times a game, actually create separation, and can do it from distance too. barnes dribbled it between his legs a few times, tried a hang dribble, didn't get his defender off balance at all and then stepped back like six inches. he made the shot so obviously good on him but if you're using that as an example of his offensive ability it's an example of how far he has to develop.

barnes is in a really good role with the raps currently imo. siakam, FVV and GTJ get all of the defensive attention (OG gets a bit when he's healthy) which allows barnes to crash offensive boards hard, flash to the paint, essentially just "fill in the cracks", so to speak. and he's obviously excelling in that role with his combo of size, athleticism and instincts (plus touch around the basket). it was funny watching the recent games against the lakers because barnes was allowed to literally feast on reaves, monk and bradley (and he did). he's starting to get good at his go-to move against mismatches, which is pretty much put the ball on the floor and start a post up from 15 feet, lower his shoulder until he gets to his "floater/hook shot" range.

i'm not trying to diminish what barnes is doing because he's obviously thriving in his offensive role. i'm just trying to put into perspective that there is a massive difference between what barnes is able to do with the ball when creating for himself and say, this:

Watch on YouTube

mademan · Post #768 » by **mademan** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:23 am

whitehops wrote:i actually think a number of raps fans would be able to write a pretty good fantasy novel. after the raps last game i saw this clip posted a bunch of times:

i hope that raps fans realize that anyone who watches cade, wagner or green regularly wouldn't even realize what the highlight was. those three do step backs multiple times a game, actually create separation, and can do it from distance too. barnes dribbled it between his legs a few times, tried a hang dribble, didn't get his defender off balance at all and then stepped back like six inches. he made the shot so obviously good on him but if you're using that as an example of his offensive ability it's an example of how far he has to develop.

barnes is in a really good role with the raps currently imo. siakam, FVV and GTJ get all of the defensive attention (OG gets a bit when he's healthy) which allows barnes to crash offensive boards hard, flash to the paint, essentially just "fill in the cracks", so to speak. and he's obviously excelling in that role with his combo of size, athleticism and instincts (plus touch around the basket). it was funny watching the recent games against the lakers because barnes was allowed to literally feast on reaves, monk and bradley (and he did). he's starting to get good at his go-to move against mismatches, which is pretty much put the ball on the floor and start a post up from 15 feet, lower his shoulder until he gets to his "floater/hook shot" range.

i'm not trying to diminish what barnes is doing because he's obviously thriving in his offensive role. i'm just trying to put into perspective that there is a massive difference between what barnes is able to do with the ball when creating for himself and say, this:

Watch on YouTube

no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

whitehops · Post #769 » by **whitehops** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:29 am

mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

Got Nuffin · Post #770 » by **Got Nuffin** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 12:43 am

whitehops wrote:
mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

I'm not 100% sure but we haven't really seen either of those guys guarding 5's for any extended period of time. I think the point is that Barnes will be very versatile in the future - he can guard 5's, he can guard 1's, he can play small ball 5, he can start for you at 1. He is deadly in the post against your big one play and then steps out and does what he does in that clip the next.

I agree for someone like Cade who plays from that spot all game every game that's no big deal at all.

srhcan · Post #771 » by **srhcan** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:03 am

Thybulle just abused Barnes with a defensive play, Barnes need to improve his defense

MotownMadness · Post #772 » by **MotownMadness** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:13 am

whitehops wrote:i actually think a number of raps fans would be able to write a pretty good fantasy novel. after the raps last game i saw this clip posted a bunch of times:

i hope that raps fans realize that anyone who watches cade, wagner or green regularly wouldn't even realize what the highlight was. those three do step backs multiple times a game, actually create separation, and can do it from distance too. barnes dribbled it between his legs a few times, tried a hang dribble, didn't get his defender off balance at all and then stepped back like six inches. he made the shot so obviously good on him but if you're using that as an example of his offensive ability it's an example of how far he has to develop.

barnes is in a really good role with the raps currently imo. siakam, FVV and GTJ get all of the defensive attention (OG gets a bit when he's healthy) which allows barnes to crash offensive boards hard, flash to the paint, essentially just "fill in the cracks", so to speak. and he's obviously excelling in that role with his combo of size, athleticism and instincts (plus touch around the basket). it was funny watching the recent games against the lakers because barnes was allowed to literally feast on reaves, monk and bradley (and he did). he's starting to get good at his go-to move against mismatches, which is pretty much put the ball on the floor and start a post up from 15 feet, lower his shoulder until he gets to his "floater/hook shot" range.

i'm not trying to diminish what barnes is doing because he's obviously thriving in his offensive role. i'm just trying to put into perspective that there is a massive difference between what barnes is able to do with the ball when creating for himself and say, this:

Watch on YouTube

Yeah that's something ive seen Cade do plenty of times from college and pro's

Vampirate · Post #773 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:24 am

whitehops wrote:
mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

I'm going to put it this way, in terms of offense.

Barnes is probably the best combination in the draft right now of power and skill. You don't just score 15.5 points on 49.4 FG% with the 2nd most ISOs behind Cade for no reason.

Mobley is probably the best combination of height and agility. If he ever can initiate for himself easily reliably and consistently it's kind of over. Highest theoretical ceiling.

Cade is the most skilled, I want to see him with better players before I really make a judgement on him.

Franz is currently the best combination of skill and height, while he's not shooting 70% from 3 feet like Mobley is, he really doesn't have some obvious weakness in his offensive game.

No one has the agility of Green, he's the most electrifying of the bunch with his ridiculous athleticism. Box office stuff.

Every one of these players have an attribute that they can exploit against each other.

srhcan · Post #774 » by **srhcan** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:20 am

Got Nuffin wrote:
whitehops wrote:
mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

I'm not 100% sure but we haven't really seen either of those guys guarding 5's for any extended period of time. I think the point is that Barnes will be very versatile in the future - he can guard 5's, he can guard 1's, he can play small ball 5, he can start for you at 1. He is deadly in the post against your big one play and then steps out and does what he does in that clip the next.

I agree for someone like Cade who plays from that spot all game every game that's no big deal at all.

he needs to do a better job in guarding, currently he is quite behind in defense to Mobley

everdiso · Post #775 » by **everdiso** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:45 am

Scottie man on man post coverage on Embiid in the clutch.

Forces the fadeaway miss.

Vampirate · Post #776 » by **Vampirate** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:21 am

Easily Barnes worst shooting night of the year.

nikster · Post #777 » by **nikster** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:50 am

whitehops wrote:
mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

Scottie has a wingspan 3.5 inches wider than Wagner and is way stronger. Scotties built like a big, those 2 are not. He regularly uses his size and strength to push around big players, even veterans. That's why he's more efficient inside the 3 point line, and why he has more offensive rebounds than those 2 combined. And of course defensively Raptors regularly rely on Scottie to cover the 4 or 5 position for long stretches

LoveMyRaps · Post #778 » by **LoveMyRaps** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:00 am

Vampirate wrote:Easily Barnes worst shooting night of the year.

Still made key plays on both ends of the floor to seal a big win against Philly on the road.

MrBigShot · Post #779 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:19 am

Crazy thing about barnes is that he only averaged 10ppg in college. His per 40 numbers and advanced stats were nothing special either.

Masai really outdid himself on this pick.

zaymon · Post #780 » by **zaymon** » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:59 am

whitehops wrote:
mademan wrote:no one really cares if a guard does it. FVV does step back jumpers too. Having a big wing who can guard C's that can also do step back jumpers....ya, thats pretty special. If Cade starts guarding Jokic and banging in the post with other C's, we'd see clips of that too.

You know that guard skills that Mobley shows? Theyre actually pretty below average for a guard. It's just special when a 7 footer is capable of it

cade is an inch shorter than barnes... wagner is like two inches taller and he has no problem putting the ball on the floor, doing step backs, running PnR, etc.

You make great points but its like talking to a wall. Barnes is great rookie, nobody is arguing this, but saying he is better scorer than Cade and Wagner becouse he has good percentages shooting those wierd hooks far from the rim against bad defenders ( becouse he cant get to the rim consistently) is just wrong and i wont support false narrative.
Today Barnes plays without FVV and its 6/21.

Who is the Rookie of the Year?