Wisconsin Badgers Thread

[DrWood]

Losing 3 players for sure.

Johnny Davis
Vogt
Brad Davison

Likely losing 2-3 more players (likely from word from around the team)
Ilver (fit)
Carlson (one foot out of the door)
Bowman (mental health)

Gard said he expects Bowman back next year.

[Profound23]

So is Juwan Howard still overrated?

Asking for a friend.

[StickeeFingaz]

Losing 3 players for sure.

Johnny Davis
Vogt
Brad Davison

Likely losing 2-3 more players (likely from word from around the team)
Ilver (fit)
Carlson (one foot out of the door)
Bowman (mental health)

Gard said he expects Bowman back next year.

Either way, they should treat the off-season as if Bowman won’t be back. Can’t rely on a guy when you never know if he’s going to be gone for weeks at a time.

[ReginaldDwight]

So is Juwan Howard still overrated?

Asking for a friend.

Iowa state as an 11 seed is laughable. That team is really solid and if they didnt struggle mid season likely a top 6 seed. No Guard depth did them in this year. Peaked at the wrong time and JD obviously isnt 100 percent right now. Add in a Chucky injury and thats all she wrote.

[Mags FTW]

Keep pounding the farms of rural WI and MN for recruiting .....

I've always had this gripe, but realistically I don't know how much success they would have by altering course.

They don't need a massive course correction. They're totally capable of snagging the sharpshooter equivalent of MU getting Rowsey out of the portal.

Is there any reason to believe this team will be able to improve offensively next season?

1. we said that this time last year, sometimes guys make leaps.

2. Putting a lot of stock in a single freshman to be good. Putting a lot of stock into the transfer portal to come up aces.

3. Chucky Hepburn


Frankly, Gard is going to need to start learning to recruit better... or just be better at targeting players that fit their system and accentuate the 4 year model and team building versus the nonsense of the portal. As a recruiter and a program head.. they need to pick an avenue. You either become another mercenary camp of a school.. OR you make it clear to kids coming to your program that you WILL stick with them for 4 years and you wont be adding transfers on a whim to take their time... You need to pick a direction and commit to it.

I say they should go the program route. Flame everyone that is using the portal to team build and concentrate on program building.

I don't see it as an either/or. They just need to make it clear that they don't go to the portal to upgrade positions from good to great, but use it to plug obvious holes. Tell recruits that have worries they will lose PT to transfers that it won't be an issue if they perform. I don't see how anyone on the team could pout if they went out and got a shooter from the portal after yesterday's embarrassment.

[chonestown]

After being picked 10th in the Big Ten, this entire season was an unexpected gift. Too bad we stunk up the place losing 3 of our last 4 games.

Good morning. It's Monday, 10:01 in the a.m. and this is "Perspectives." I'm your host Lionel Osbourne.

[DingleJerry]

Can't say I'm surprised to hear some of the fire Gard people pop up after the loss. B1G Championships two of the last three years and still bashing. I especially love the commentary about not trying for National titles even though they almost won 2 of them only 7 years ago. Still this is so frustrating after seeing Auburn lose too. You'd have had all home games and double digit seeds to the elite 8.

That said, I just can't believe a program that needs to be built the way ours is can't shoot better. This should be and is the number one priority in recruiting, almost every guy they get is supposed to be a lights out shooter. Yet, the results don't seem to come and shooting is a constant struggle. Every guy out there should be able to consistently hit wide open 3s. This shouldn't be so hard to do.

I get Davis has to go pro and take his money. But if I had to make a bold prediction I don't think he amounts to much in the NBA

[chonestown]

If there's one thing Wisconsin has done well over the last g-damn three decades, it's recruit players that fit the system. Christ. Please don't give me a stroke. I have years of fire-ass posts still in me. Think of the children.

[jute2003]

Can't say I'm surprised to hear some of the fire Gard people pop up after the loss. B1G Championships two of the last three years and still bashing. I especially love the commentary about not trying for National titles even though they almost won 2 of them only 7 years ago. Still this is so frustrating after seeing Auburn lose too. You'd have had all home games and double digit seeds to the elite 8.

That said, I just can't believe a program that needs to be built the way ours is can't shoot better. This should be and is the number one priority in recruiting, almost every guy they get is supposed to be a lights out shooter. Yet, the results don't seem to come and shooting is a constant struggle. Every guy out there should be able to consistently hit wide open 3s. This shouldn't be so hard to do.

I get Davis has to go pro and take his money. But if I had to make a bold prediction I don't think he amounts to much in the NBA

My untrained and baisically worthless opinion: I still think he needs to refine basically everything about his offensive game. He is an NBA athlete for sure but not to the point of being able to outathlete people at the next level like he does now. He seems to be a worker and is a capable and willing defender already. I think he can be a good role player but he will be a project.

Basically, as soon as he started getting national attention, he began forcing the issue way more. I'm not sure it did him any favors and wouldn't be surprised if his draft stock took a hit. I think he will fall out of the lottery into the later first round. I think his decision to stay or leave went from being a no brainer a couple months ago to requiring a lot of thought on his part now.

[raysbookclub]

Johnny Davis should stay in school. If the draft were held two months ago, yes, he should have entered. After the last month, though, even if he blames the ankle, his stock is too low. Second round might be best case now. Got exposed: shaky handle, depends way too much on that pull-up from 18 feet, not quick enough to stay with the perimeter guys he'd have to defend at the next level. That dude Kalscheur from Iowa St scored most of his points with Davis guarding him, and it wasn't fluky--Davis's feet on defense were not good.

He could go to Europe, I guess, but I can't see what role he'd play on any NBA team at this point. Not a good enough scorer or playmaker to have the ball a lot, not enough size to be a big (though he's a good rebounder), feet not good enough to defend the perimeter. Maybe he could try to be a Patty C-type of player, I guess I could see that. But those types of players are second-round picks. (Patty C was a mid-second rounder.)

[MikeIsGood]

Can't say I'm surprised to hear some of the fire Gard people pop up after the loss. B1G Championships two of the last three years and still bashing. I especially love the commentary about not trying for National titles even though they almost won 2 of them only 7 years ago. Still this is so frustrating after seeing Auburn lose too. You'd have had all home games and double digit seeds to the elite 8.

That said, I just can't believe a program that needs to be built the way ours is can't shoot better. This should be and is the number one priority in recruiting, almost every guy they get is supposed to be a lights out shooter. Yet, the results don't seem to come and shooting is a constant struggle. Every guy out there should be able to consistently hit wide open 3s. This shouldn't be so hard to do.

I get Davis has to go pro and take his money. But if I had to make a bold prediction I don't think he amounts to much in the NBA

After that note and the one about football last night, in my response I felt like I was suddenly channeling you and and Kerb. I became self-aware and had this step-away-from-the-computer moment

Here's what I'll say about shooting. I don't know how much merit it has, but it's something I've thought about...

The shooters we've recruited are generally not the guys who have ended up being our main contributors. TJ Schlundt was supposed to be like the best shooter in state history, right? But that's the only skill he had at the D1, major conference level. As a result, he doesn't end up getting PT, never has rhythm, possibly even regresses instead of progressing. And it's all legit - can't play him if he's horrible otherwise.

But contrast that to a program like Colgate - or any other little program that always has knock-down shooters we lament about - and you can maybe piece together how it comes to be. They recruit shooters who might not otherwise have D1, major conference skills, but they play and develop their game, turn into players otherwise (maybe) because they're in a bad conference without the athletes and skill levels of the Power 5. I'm not convinced that those same guys who can shoot so well, placed on Wisconsin (or another Power 5 team) for their college career, develop into the same player and/or contribute in the same way.

Just think about the Colgate game. As soon as we started running them off the three point line their players looked absolutely useless. We couldn't translate that into playing OSU, MSU, even Northwestern and Rutgers. Those kinds of players would get abused. Single game match-ups might not show that, though, so when we do play a team like that, we're suddenly talking about how easy it is to just pick up and place one of their guys in our system. Some folks did it the last few days.

Now, this isn't to say that shooting isn't a problem. It is, and it's something we need to solve. Other teams in B10 and the P5 conferences do. But I call that out first just as a theory, and second to cut down some of the hot takes about losses. The problem with shooting isn't finding some random Joe that can shoot; we need to find actual players that can also shoot.

I will say, though, that compared to everyone not named Iowa in the B10, our shooting numbers from deep on the season aren't THAT bad. I'd suggest that the issue is more about a lack of depth, and our top shooter maybe being more streaky than most (not trying to start that again). We struggled because we didn't have Chucky - our #3 shooter from deep, believe it or not- Johnny was a mess, and Davison wasn't having a game where he can hit 3 or 4. Beyond those guys, you have Crowl and - heavy gulp - Lorne Bowman. Not a typo

[DingleJerry]

Yea I'd say Davis celling is an off ball 3 and D role player. He won't be good enough to be a ball in hands scorer type, which I guess is a good thing in that this is where his struggle came once he became 'star' and tried forcing so many tough contested shots. Good thing is he likely has the right attitude and work ethic to realize this, so a team should trust he'll be able to be coached into the right role to help a team. So in a way, maybe best thing for him would be to drop to the 20s in the draft to just be a role player on a good team rather than have 'star' expectations if drafted at like 9.

Even still, I think he'll need a lot of work on his shot to make it as a solid long term player.

[BUCKnation]

I think a good comp for Davis is Jalen Suggs. Davis is likely a better straight up shooter and a far better rebounder though.

[paulpressey25]

Can't say I'm surprised to hear some of the fire Gard people pop up after the loss.

No question I sat on the sidelines this year. You had to be thrilled with the way Davis emerged and had the potential to be a 2002 MU era Dwayne type impact player for UW.

But in the end, Davis wasn't in Wade's league and Gard was not able to rally anything else after that.

I'm a UW alum, so I want the program to succeed. And my expectations are reasonable, as I'm happy a Sweet 16 every 2nd or 3rd year. But I do not believe Gard is anywhere in the league of what Dick Bennett or Bo Ryan were as a coach. I think UW is still living off the success those two guys built, and eventually we're going to need to replace Gard.

[chonestown]

Chones you got some Dan Jenkins in you.

Do not know who that is, but don't mean I don't appreciate it. Thanks.

[paulpressey25]

Chones you got some Dan Jenkins in you.

Do not know who that is, but don't mean I don't appreciate it. Thanks.

I assumed he was talking about the character on Yellowstone, but perhaps it was the SI writer. Lol.

[ReasonablySober]

Chones you got some Dan Jenkins in you.

Do not know who that is, but don't mean I don't appreciate it. Thanks.

I assumed he was talking about the character on Yellowstone, but perhaps it was the SI writer. Lol.

It was definitely the greatest sports writer of all time.

[chonestown]

Do not know who that is, but don't mean I don't appreciate it. Thanks.

I assumed he was talking about the character on Yellowstone, but perhaps it was the SI writer. Lol.

It was definitely the greatest sports writer of all time.

I can only dream to attain such a level of grizzled. Off-season (there is no off-season!) goals for your boy.

I'll have to search out some bylines and get familiar. The SMU "Pony Excess" 30-for-30 was great for many reasons, but man did I love when they focused in on the Dallas paper wars.

[ReasonablySober]

I assumed he was talking about the character on Yellowstone, but perhaps it was the SI writer. Lol.

It was definitely the greatest sports writer of all time.

I can only dream to attain such a level of grizzled. Off-season (there is no off-season!) goals for your boy.

I'll have to search out some bylines and get familiar. The SMU "Pony Excess" 30-for-30 was great for many reasons, but man did I love when they focused in on the Dallas paper wars.

Imagine someone coming up with this lead in 2022:

Old Notre Dame will tie over all. Sing it out, guys. That is not exactly what the march says, of course, but that is how the big game ends every time you replay it. And that is how millions of cranky college football fans will remember it. For 59 minutes in absolutely overwrought East Lansing last week the brutes of Michigan State and Notre Dame pounded each other into enough mistakes to fill Bubba Smith's uniform—enough to settle a dozen games between lesser teams—but the 10-10 tie that destiny seemed to be demanding had a strange, noble quality to it. And then it did not have that anymore. For the people who saw it under the cold, dreary clouds or on national television, suddenly all it had was this enormous emptiness for which the Irish will be forever blamed.

pounded.

[Diggr14]

Can't say I'm surprised to hear some of the fire Gard people pop up after the loss.

No question I sat on the sidelines this year. You had to be thrilled with the way Davis emerged and had the potential to be a 2002 MU era Dwayne type impact player for UW.

But in the end, Davis wasn't in Wade's league and Gard was not able to rally anything else after that.

I'm a UW alum, so I want the program to succeed. And my expectations are reasonable, as I'm happy a Sweet 16 every 2nd or 3rd year. But I do not believe Gard is anywhere in the league of what Dick Bennett or Bo Ryan were as a coach. I think UW is still living off the success those two guys built, and eventually we're going to need to replace Gard.

It's hard to be as good as Wayne Dade was in the context of NCAA or NBA. You're talking a top 50 player in both.. all-time. That's insane to match. If Davis stays for year 3, that's a maybe.. but still doubtful. He should be happy with whom he is. He draft comps to Manu Giniobili... which isnt a bad comp. I still think there is about a 2% chance he stays in school.. if his draft stock falls out of the lottery (i dont think it will)... and he wants to run a season back with his brother getting more significant minutes. That's a huge longshot though. If he projects outside the lottery... possibly. Very Very Very unlikely though. His explosion and defense are elite. His shot is average. His pedigree will also keep him down. Being outside of the top 100 as a recruit, due to size and shooting issues will keep NBA teams doing their due diligence. His last quarter of a season at UW was very suspect on the aggregate too.

Davis is not the best player in UW history. He wasnt the overall talent Devin Harris was. He wasn't the complete NCAA player like Frank Kaminsky. He didnt have the awesome mullet that Tim Locum did. But what he has been is a top 5 guy in the program history in terms of NCAA talent. His NBA future is still wide open.