2022 NBA Draft

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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1981 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:12 pm

Big J wrote:I’m starting to sour on this draft after seeing these unimpressive performances by the top guys. Getting 2000 draft vibes from this class.

So I take it we watched a different opening weekend then.

Paolo:
17/10/4 with 1 steal and 2 blocks
19/7/4 with 1 block

Jabari:
20/14/3
10/15/4 with 3 blocks (yes his jumper was off)

Chet:
19/17/5 with 2 steals and 7 blocks
9/9/2 with 4 blocks (yes quiet game)

Ivey:
22/4/1 with 2 steals
18/3/3 with 1 block and did that on just 7 FGAs

Mathurin:
18/5
30/8/4 with 2 steals

Okay so all of these guys have had at least one really good game. You had Jabari that had an off night shooting and Chet with 1 quiet game. Either than, these guys showed out pretty damn well. Especially considering no one considers this a star packed top of a draft.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1982 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:33 pm

XTC wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:Best fits for top guys?

I love love love the idea of Poalo in Detroit

Chet in Orlando - super dynamic and fills in gaps the other young players don’t fill

Jabari works kinda everywhere but isn’t exciting anywhere as he’s a plug and plug guy rather than a build around


I think Chet is the last thing Orlando needs. I honestly do think Jabari's best fit would be Orlando.

IMO Jabari Smith reminds me of ex-Magic Rashard Lewis.


meh, if I picking #1 I'd take Bari no hesitation just because imo he's #1 in a tier of his own, but not sure how Bari fits when you already have Wagner and Okeke, i think Chet is a better fit from a personnel standpoint, Bamba is a FA and Isaac is injured pretty much always at this point.

tbh tho this is a bad draft for Orlando to pick top3 pick, what they really need is a 2/3 wing or a stud PG prospect (Suggs and Hampton are more combo guys, Cole is good off bench but not sure long term as a starter). unfortunately this draft sucks in both of those departments.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1983 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:57 pm

Roger Murdock wrote:
The-Power wrote:
Roger Murdock wrote:I love love love the idea of Poalo in Detroit

Why is that? I don't particularly like his fit with Cade.

Roger Murdock wrote:Chet in Orlando - super dynamic and fills in gaps the other young players don’t fill

Next to WCJ and Wagner in the front court, I assume?


I love his fit with Cade. Forcing everything through one player never leads to anything sustainable in the post season. One of Cades best strengths is moving off ball, shooting off the catch, and creating space for his teammates. But he can’t do that because nobody else on the team deserves the rock or can play make


that's what made Cade such a dope prospect, he fits next to a lot of different archetypes. if I am Detroit i'm pretty happy about getting a top3 pick, all three guys (Bari, Chet, Paolo) would be seamless fits there.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1984 » by Big J » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:00 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Big J wrote:I’m starting to sour on this draft after seeing these unimpressive performances by the top guys. Getting 2000 draft vibes from this class.

So I take it we watched a different opening weekend then.

Paolo:
17/10/4 with 1 steal and 2 blocks
19/7/4 with 1 block

Jabari:
20/14/3
10/15/4 with 3 blocks (yes his jumper was off)

Chet:
19/17/5 with 2 steals and 7 blocks
9/9/2 with 4 blocks (yes quiet game)

Ivey:
22/4/1 with 2 steals
18/3/3 with 1 block and did that on just 7 FGAs

Mathurin:
18/5
30/8/4 with 2 steals

Okay so all of these guys have had at least one really good game. You had Jabari that had an off night shooting and Chet with 1 quiet game. Either than, these guys showed out pretty damn well. Especially considering no one considers this a star packed top of a draft.


Yea, it’s not really about putting up numbers though. None of these guys has really done anything or put on a show that makes you say, “wow, he’s gonna be a star.” It’s all been kinda meh no matter what the stat lines show.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1985 » by Roger Murdock » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:11 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Big J wrote:I’m starting to sour on this draft after seeing these unimpressive performances by the top guys. Getting 2000 draft vibes from this class.

So I take it we watched a different opening weekend then.

Paolo:
17/10/4 with 1 steal and 2 blocks
19/7/4 with 1 block

Jabari:
20/14/3
10/15/4 with 3 blocks (yes his jumper was off)

Chet:
19/17/5 with 2 steals and 7 blocks
9/9/2 with 4 blocks (yes quiet game)

Ivey:
22/4/1 with 2 steals
18/3/3 with 1 block and did that on just 7 FGAs

Mathurin:
18/5
30/8/4 with 2 steals

Okay so all of these guys have had at least one really good game. You had Jabari that had an off night shooting and Chet with 1 quiet game. Either than, these guys showed out pretty damn well. Especially considering no one considers this a star packed top of a draft.


You’re feeding a troll
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1986 » by tmorgan » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:28 pm

If Detroit were to be lucky enough to pick #1 again, I’d shop the pick a little. I’d look for another top 8 pick and a big asset. If that’s not possible…. I don’t know which way I’d go. Remaining performances, workouts and interviews would matter.

Tiebreaker goes to Paolo, though, because Cade thinks it’d work.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1987 » by jman3134 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:29 pm

Ivey and Mathurin have been great. Koloko and Mark Williams have been awesome as well. Most of the pre-existing names have underwhelmed in the tournament.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1988 » by SeattleJazzFan » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:46 pm

most, as dfl pointed out have had one great game and one not so great game. banchero has had two good games and ivey has had two good games.

iow, through just two games about normal for how top prospects tend to look in the ncaa tournament.

Cade Cunningham - one terrible game, one good game.
Evan Mobley - one decent game, one subpar game
Scottie Barnes - two bad games where he basically disappeared
Jalen Suggs - one terrible game, one average to below average game

and for good measure -

RJ Barrett - one good game, one bad game
Anthony Edwards - he didn't make the Dance, but the last two games of his season were both very bad.

And I didn't cherry pick these - I just looked at the top guys from last year and then went to 2020 and 2019 for the top OADs for those two seasons. (though i will admit i didn't look at Zion because dude simply doesn't have bad games - college or nba - just too much of an outlier)

Iow, the lesson to be learned here is that if anybody expect these highly rated freshmen to dominate every game in the NCAA tournament, they're barking up the wrong tree. they need to lower their expectations, they need to understand the concept of sample size, and they need to understand that how they perform through two games of the NCAAs has very little to do with their NBA futures.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1989 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 7:54 pm

tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1990 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:03 pm

clyde21 wrote:tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?


Yup. Also we have to remember we are dealing with college basketball numbers, not NBA per game stats.

To put it into perspective, Melo is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to OAD elite tournament performances.

He averaged 20/10/2 on 47/47/63 shooting

Again Paolo is averaging 18/8/4 on 53/44/50 shooting

College basketball hasn't seen a huge bump in scoring like the NBA either. Like I think people need to put this stuff in proper context.

And ya we are only talking about a super small sample size.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1991 » by jman3134 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:07 pm

clyde21 wrote:tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?


Don't agree with you here on the NCAA tournament not having significance. Mobley's shot changing ability was extremely evident all tournament long. It was game changing and the reason they destroyed Iowa.

Obviously, the whole of the season is important, but with these freshman guards, the NCAA tournament is most important in gauging their development curve. It isn't a matter of the shooter missing shots and suddenly now he's a bad shooter. It is a look into the progression of the freshman and how ready he is to make that leap.

Jaden Ivey made the jump last year. The knock on Ben Simmons coming in was LSU's team performance and the fact that they were never able to get over the hump - valid or not.

Of course, a major point about this is how the freshman is utilized within their college system. If it is a point guard running the show and his team completely collapses due to inept play, it is more significant than a big (who is guard dependent) having a quiet performance.

Kennedy Chandler was ok against Michigan. The rest of his team did not step up. So context is also important, but the NCAA tournament is the most significant gauge of a freshman prospect (esp guards) with the exception of the combine.

For me, the NCAA tournament is one of the biggest mental gauges moreso than the actual performance. How does a player (and team) respond with his back against the wall? Is he an alpha? Does he have stones like Ben Mathurin?
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1992 » by SeattleJazzFan » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:38 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?


Yup. Also we have to remember we are dealing with college basketball numbers, not NBA per game stats.

To put it into perspective, Melo is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to OAD elite tournament performances.

He averaged 20/10/2 on 47/47/63 shooting

Again Paolo is averaging 18/8/4 on 53/44/50 shooting

College basketball hasn't seen a huge bump in scoring like the NBA either. Like I think people need to put this stuff in proper context.

And ya we are only talking about a super small sample size.


going to nitpick a bit here and say Zion is the absolute gold standard for OADs, but since Melo won a title and it's generally better to assume Zion never existed if you want to realistically make any comparison of production and efficiency to other players, I think Melo is a good choice here as a "realistic" gold standard.

Zion was 26/9/2 on 68/41/47 (83% TS) for the record.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1993 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:42 pm

jman3134 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?


Don't agree with you here on the NCAA tournament not having significance. Mobley's shot changing ability was extremely evident all tournament long. It was game changing and the reason they destroyed Iowa.

Obviously, the whole of the season is important, but with these freshman guards, the NCAA tournament is most important in gauging their development curve. It isn't a matter of the shooter missing shots and suddenly now he's a bad shooter. It is a look into the progression of the freshman and how ready he is to make that leap.

Jaden Ivey made the jump last year. The knock on Ben Simmons coming in was LSU's team performance and the fact that they were never able to get over the hump - valid or not.

Of course, a major point about this is how the freshman is utilized within their college system. If it is a point guard running the show and his team completely collapses due to inept play, it is more significant than a big (who is guard dependent) having a quiet performance.

Kennedy Chandler was ok against Michigan. The rest of his team did not step up. So context is also important, but the NCAA tournament is the most significant gauge of a freshman prospect (esp guards) with the exception of the combine.

For me, the NCAA tournament is one of the biggest mental gauges moreso than the actual performance. How does a player (and team) respond with his back against the wall? Is he an alpha? Does he have stones like Ben Mathurin?


With Mobley it was already well known prior to the tournament that his defense was elite. I mean he was the PAC 12 DPOY entering the tournament for a reason.

I don't agree that the tournament is the best gauge. The best gauge is seeing how they performed in conference play (if they play in a power conference). There you get see how they react to a normal grind of a season, they consistently go against teams with legit size and athleticism, and against legit coaches that know how to scout and game plan and go up against the same teams multiple times.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the tournament means nothing. I think there is still wiggle room to adjust guys up and down your board during this time.

But I don't think any major adjustments should be based off of the tournament.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1994 » by Big J » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:45 pm

Yea, you can gleam a lot from performances in the tourney. Let's not just act like these are meaningless regular season games. It's the biggest stage these kids have been put on in their lives. You see the guys who step their games up and the guys who wilt under pressure.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1995 » by azcatz11 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:47 pm

MotownMadness wrote:
azcatz11 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:i'd take Terry lotto. if you look at him as strictly a PG instead a glue guy, it makes much more sense.


I assume you're getting winslow vibes? I love them both actually but Terry has more of an edge (No offense Duke)

Great game. One of the ages

Where do you got Mathurin on your board?


I don't have a board or anything bro. I can say all types of ranges from him. He has a super high motor and is extremely competitive which is a great sign. His biggest flaw is he has no mid range game and he's probably around 6'4. Idk what his wingspan is but it seems pretty long.

Best case scenario for him is solid starter on a good team and worst case would be his height and lack of creativity, passing, mid range game makes him a journeyman I guess.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1996 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:48 pm

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:tournament performances are almost irrelevant tbh to overall prospect status, like you just said, Mobley and Barnes were bad by their standards in the tourney last yr, it didn't matter.

a team of Zion, Tre Jones, RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish lost in the S16. Deandre Ayton was a 1AD in the tourney and was terrible. guys like Ben Simmons and Antman didn't even make the tournament.

great tournament performances for top prospects barely exist anymore. who were the last ones? Justise Winslow and Anthony Davis?


Yup. Also we have to remember we are dealing with college basketball numbers, not NBA per game stats.

To put it into perspective, Melo is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to OAD elite tournament performances.

He averaged 20/10/2 on 47/47/63 shooting

Again Paolo is averaging 18/8/4 on 53/44/50 shooting

College basketball hasn't seen a huge bump in scoring like the NBA either. Like I think people need to put this stuff in proper context.

And ya we are only talking about a super small sample size.


going to nitpick a bit here and say Zion is the absolute gold standard for OADs, but since Melo won a title and it's generally better to assume Zion never existed if you want to realistically make any comparison of production and efficiency to other players, I think Melo is a good choice here as a "realistic" gold standard.

Zion was 26/9/2 on 68/41/47 (83% TS) for the record.


Sure but that is why Zion was considered a freak prospect. When most people think freshman and OADs in the tournament, Melo is usually the first name that pops up. Because it's a combination of them whining it all and him playing so good.

But again my main point that I was making is Melo's performance was and still is viewed super highly. Two games in and Paolo ain't that far off. And it's not just the stats either, Paolo played some big time defense late in that game, he was making nice passes throughout the game.

Ya these guys aren't going to replicate Zion's production. But I don't think anyone expects a Zion/AD level of prospect in this draft.

That is why I'm confused with people saying they've been underwhelmed by the top guys so far. I feel the complete opposite actually. Based on my expectations of this draft, I feel like these guys had a damn good opening weekend to the tournament.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1997 » by SeattleJazzFan » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:50 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
SeattleJazzFan wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Yup. Also we have to remember we are dealing with college basketball numbers, not NBA per game stats.

To put it into perspective, Melo is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to OAD elite tournament performances.

He averaged 20/10/2 on 47/47/63 shooting

Again Paolo is averaging 18/8/4 on 53/44/50 shooting

College basketball hasn't seen a huge bump in scoring like the NBA either. Like I think people need to put this stuff in proper context.

And ya we are only talking about a super small sample size.


going to nitpick a bit here and say Zion is the absolute gold standard for OADs, but since Melo won a title and it's generally better to assume Zion never existed if you want to realistically make any comparison of production and efficiency to other players, I think Melo is a good choice here as a "realistic" gold standard.

Zion was 26/9/2 on 68/41/47 (83% TS) for the record.


Sure but that is why Zion was considered a freak prospect. When most people think freshman and OADs in the tournament, Melo is usually the first name that pops up. Because it's a combination of them whining it all and him playing so good.

But again my main point that I was making is Melo's performance was and still is viewed super highly. Two games in and Paolo ain't that far off. And it's not just the stats either, Paolo played some big time defense late in that game, he was making nice passes throughout the game.

Ya these guys aren't going to replicate Zion's production. But I don't think anyone expects a Zion/AD level of prospect in this draft.

That is why I'm confused with people saying they've been underwhelmed by the top guys so far. I feel the complete opposite actually. Based on my expectations of this draft, I feel like these guys had a damn good opening weekend to the tournament.


ultimately we agree 100%.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1998 » by clyde21 » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:50 pm

there is a reason why Zion is one of the GOAT prospects we've ever seen, and again he still lost in S16, along with a star studded team that had Barret, Jones and Reddish also as starters.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#1999 » by Big J » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:00 pm

clyde21 wrote:there is a reason why Zion is one of the GOAT prospects we've ever seen, and again he still lost in S16, along with a star studded team that had Barret, Jones and Reddish also as starters.


Zion wasn't the reason they lost though. Problem with that team was that RJ thought he was on the same level as Zion and kept doing hero ball ish.
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Re: 2022 NBA Draft 

Post#2000 » by CptCrunch » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:11 pm

Tourney games shouldn't be upweighted.

Except for teams that play in non-competitive conferences, read Gonzaga.

Haters (like me) have been harping on Jabari for months. He pooped out a worst scenario kind of game in the tourney with his shot not falling at all. So we have doubling up the criticism of him not having handles at all.

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