Around the NBA- 2020/2021 Edition

[basketballRob]

Patrick Williams back for the Bulls.

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[J the Drafter]

One of my biggest critiques of Weltman is I really feel like he does a poor job of maximizing draft assets. Whether it's continually punting on late first/second-round picks or taking guys higher than he should have, he does a poor job all around.

Chuma is another perfect example of a player who was mocked in the early second/late first range leading up to the draft that Weltman decided to take at 15 because he was that high on his board. It's either he doesn't understand the concept of moving back to take on additional assets to still get a player who your higher on than the consensus or he truly doesn't value those picks.

Either way, it's quite bizarre/concerning considering he is the head of basketball operations for a small-market franchise.

I'm 100% sure that without Magic picking him up, he would fall to second round.
But in reality Magic only drafted him because they agreed to not sign him on nba contract during "year zero".

Didn't the team picking 3 after us plan on picking him? I remember Lowe Post covering it or something.

That’s indeed the case. The Magic didn’t think Okeke would be available in the second round.

[tiderulz]

I'm 100% sure that without Magic picking him up, he would fall to second round.
But in reality Magic only drafted him because they agreed to not sign him on nba contract during "year zero".

Didn't the team picking 3 after us plan on picking him? I remember Lowe Post covering it or something.

That’s indeed the case. The Magic didn’t think Okeke would be available in the second round.

ehh, anyone can say what they want after the fact. could be 1 gm covering for another.

[Xatticus]

They are clowning Vucevic on socials right now . It must suck for players like Vucevic, that were quite loved as a whole (I know it weren't always the case and some of us wanted him traded from a seasons back) to not being appreciated much from a bigger market team.

I haven't watched that many games of his, but has he been that bad since the all star break or what?

Nah. He has been Vucevic. There is just a lot of blame to go around in Chicago and Vucevic is the obvious candidate for it. They are in free fall. They can't defend. They can't beat anyone that is good. Now they are in danger of falling into the play-in games. Even if they get into the playoffs, it seems exceptionally unlikely that they get out of the first round.

There hasn't been any talk about LaVine leaving since they went out and got Vucevic, Ball, DeRozan, and Caruso, but I'm wondering if he will explore his options this summer if they fail to get into the playoffs or flame out quickly. That pick next year could be very valuable if he decides to leave.

[thelead]

They are clowning Vucevic on socials right now . It must suck for players like Vucevic, that were quite loved as a whole (I know it weren't always the case and some of us wanted him traded from a seasons back) to not being appreciated much from a bigger market team.

I haven't watched that many games of his, but has he been that bad since the all star break or what?

Nah. He has been Vucevic. There is just a lot of blame to go around in Chicago and Vucevic is the obvious candidate for it. They are in free fall. They can't defend. They can't beat anyone that is good. Now they are in danger of falling into the play-in games. Even if they get into the playoffs, it seems exceptionally unlikely that they get out of the first round.

There hasn't been any talk about LaVine leaving since they went out and got Vucevic, Ball, DeRozan, and Caruso, but I'm wondering if he will explore his options this summer if they fail to get into the playoffs or flame out quickly. That pick next year could be very valuable if he decides to leave.

The lovefest for Vuc around here is baffling. He's a good dude but in no way should he be viewed as some star that doesn't deserve blame. It's funny how quickly Bulls fans see that he's part of the problem. Is he the only problem? Not at all but for the amount of love Vuc still gets from magic fans you would think he brought home a championship

On that 2023 pick.... what a gift it would be if it all imploded. We need all the luck we can get.

Can we make our own luck and get Zack here alongside another star via trade? That would be awesome.... but I'm daydreaming.

[PrimeThyme]

It's amazing that you can get away with things like that on small market mostly because nobody, including local media gives a f*** about a team.

Spoiler:

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I've pointed this out all year in the Isaac threads. The Chicago org. actually gives insightful day-by-day updates like this on a player who suffered a less serious injury. Nobody will ever hold Weltman accountable either. When Isaac and the front office were doing media a couple of weeks ago everyone who asked a question did It in the most softball manner possible. They live in fear.

Weltman isn't and won't be held accountable for a single one of his failures during his time here. Hell, he just got himself and everyone else in the FO extensions for the way he's handled himself and this organization during his tenure.

Why would he ever change?

[Skybox]

They are clowning Vucevic on socials right now . It must suck for players like Vucevic, that were quite loved as a whole (I know it weren't always the case and some of us wanted him traded from a seasons back) to not being appreciated much from a bigger market team.

I haven't watched that many games of his, but has he been that bad since the all star break or what?

Nah. He has been Vucevic. There is just a lot of blame to go around in Chicago and Vucevic is the obvious candidate for it. They are in free fall. They can't defend. They can't beat anyone that is good. Now they are in danger of falling into the play-in games. Even if they get into the playoffs, it seems exceptionally unlikely that they get out of the first round.

There hasn't been any talk about LaVine leaving since they went out and got Vucevic, Ball, DeRozan, and Caruso, but I'm wondering if he will explore his options this summer if they fail to get into the playoffs or flame out quickly. That pick next year could be very valuable if he decides to leave.

The lovefest for Vuc around here is baffling. He's a good dude but in no way should he be viewed as some star that doesn't deserve blame. It's funny how quickly Bulls fans see that he's part of the problem. Is he the only problem? Not at all but for the amount of love Vuc still gets from magic fans you would think he brought home a championship

On that 2023 pick.... what a gift it would be if it all imploded. We need all the luck we can get.

Can we make our own luck and get Zack here alongside another star via trade? That would be awesome.... but I'm daydreaming.

Would that be the ultimate GM move/trifecta?...steal Lavine as a free agent - which causes them to fall apart and watch their pick skyrocket for us (Franz at 8 completing the Trifecta and/or WCJ overachieving expectations).

[Xatticus]

Nah. He has been Vucevic. There is just a lot of blame to go around in Chicago and Vucevic is the obvious candidate for it. They are in free fall. They can't defend. They can't beat anyone that is good. Now they are in danger of falling into the play-in games. Even if they get into the playoffs, it seems exceptionally unlikely that they get out of the first round.

There hasn't been any talk about LaVine leaving since they went out and got Vucevic, Ball, DeRozan, and Caruso, but I'm wondering if he will explore his options this summer if they fail to get into the playoffs or flame out quickly. That pick next year could be very valuable if he decides to leave.

The lovefest for Vuc around here is baffling. He's a good dude but in no way should he be viewed as some star that doesn't deserve blame. It's funny how quickly Bulls fans see that he's part of the problem. Is he the only problem? Not at all but for the amount of love Vuc still gets from magic fans you would think he brought home a championship

On that 2023 pick.... what a gift it would be if it all imploded. We need all the luck we can get.

Can we make our own luck and get Zack here alongside another star via trade? That would be awesome.... but I'm daydreaming.

Would that be the ultimate GM move/trifecta?...steal Lavine as a free agent - which causes them to fall apart and watch their pick skyrocket for us (Franz at 8 completing the Trifecta and/or WCJ overachieving expectations).

I really doubt we can get LaVine. He has earned his money. He's going to want to win some games now. Otherwise, he'd be perfectly happy staying in Chicago. He might be still.

We should have a ton of cap room this summer though, so we might be able to facilitate LaVine's departure from Chicago. That would surely piss off the Bulls front office, but sometimes bridges have to get burned.

[pepe1991]

You can't facilitate trade of unrestricted FA.
Sign & trade is only possible between two teams and player, and all three parties have to agree. No third team can be involved.

Only thing Magic can do to Lavine is to offer him $29,8 M a year , on 4 years. So around $120M over 4 years. Bulls can offer him 5 years, 200 M or 4 years , $160M . In both cases there is massive difference in money.

If cap space raises for expected $8M, nothing will change, it will just allow Bulls to shower him with even more money.


I see zero reasons why even get into conversation about 2022 free agency. Ayton, Lavine, Simons will resign. Others are complimentary peaces at best.

As for Lavine in particular, Keith Smith tweeted few days ago that with Lavine is just matter of question what type of max contract he gets. Max or Supermax. I

To me, most interesting player to watch in offseason is Tyler Herro. Pistons look like prime candidate to offer him max given their spacing issues and lack of guards.

[Bensational]

You can't facilitate trade of unrestricted FA.
Sign & trade is only possible between two teams and player, and all three parties have to agree. No third team can be involved.

Wrong. If a team that wants LaVine needs extra cap room to make a run at him, we can use our cap space to absorb dead weight from them and help them create room for him. That’s helping facilitate a trade.

[basketballRob]

No thanks to Lavine. Just another guy that never wins a playoff series.

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[pepe1991]

You can't facilitate trade of unrestricted FA.
Sign & trade is only possible between two teams and player, and all three parties have to agree. No third team can be involved.

Wrong. If a team that wants LaVine needs extra cap room to make a run at him, we can use our cap space to absorb dead weight from them and help them create room for him. That’s helping facilitate a trade.

This is simply fasle.

Magic can't make any more space than around $30M a year, salary cap is set at $121M or around that range, won't be bigger than $128 anyway. 16 nba teams are alredy capped out for next year ( at least $121M commited) and that does not count signing new rookies or resigning current players.
Those teams simply can't create cap space to allow Lavine max.

Let's take Atlanta for example, commited salary to: Young, Capella,Bogdanovic, Galinari (expiring in 2023), Huerter, Hunter , Knox ( team option), Okonwgu , team options on Mays and Cooper and Jalen Johnson.

They decline Knox player option, decline May, decline Cooper, and trade Galinari to us.. and they are still way over a cap.
What does being over cap means? It means that cap holds don't count as new salary. In other words even when they are creating space, they still can't sign free agents, rather just resign ones.

Even in theory, only type of team that COULD create space for Lavine this summer had to be team who's overpayed player declines player option or teams who has less than $120M commited AND at least some $20-29M garbage sitting, eating salary that they are willing to trade. I can help you even more: This is list of all overpayed, expiring contracts in 2022-23 : Horford ( Boston balls deep into luxury tax , can't make trades), D'angello Russell ( zero desire to dump him, nor Lavine would like to go back to Minessota), NIkola Jokić ( lol) and Andrew Wiggins ( same situation as with Boston, they are capped out for ages ).

One of few teams that has team quality to make a trade for Lavine, Raptors, simply lack players to trade to open cap space mostly because half of their cap space is tied with Siakam, Vleet and OG.

So... whole Lavine scenario of movment goes to destionations like: Orlando, Detroit, OKC and some far fatched , 2 trades in free agency- Cavs. Or he could take supermax and set 5 generations of Lavines for good.


So yea, let's put that baby to sleep, it's not happening.

I know what you and xat thought, Magic take awful contract and he pushes Bulls into sign and trade, normally that would work, issue this year is that vast majority of nba teams are super capped out because GMs thought 3 years ago that salary cap will explode by now. But it did not happen.

he team receiving the player cannot have a payroll that exceeds the so-called "apron"—a designated level above the NBA luxury tax threshold—after the trade. A team with a payroll above the apron can only receive a player in a sign-and-trade if the transaction drops that team's payroll below the apron. Once the transaction is complete, the team receiving the player is hard capped at the apron for the entire season.
The receiving team cannot have used the so-called "taxpayer mid-level exception" in that season. The taxpayer mid-level exception is a limited financial buffer that teams with total payroll above the luxury tax threshold must use to sign players for up to 3 years.

[thelead]

No thanks to Lavine. Just another guy that never wins a playoff series.

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He has his faults but he 100% provides the biggest thing this team lacks: a reliable scorer. We could work around his deficiencies... especially if we land Chet and JI can still play elite defense.

[pepe1991]

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Well...that got out of hands very fast

[drsd]

With the Celts 6 game win streak and the Heat 4 game losing streak, the top-4 teams are all tied in losses, meaning any of these clubs are essentially as likely to slot at 1 as 4: with Bucks and Sixers.

For 5 and 6, there is a 3-team race for the final playoff slots: Bulls, Raptors, and Cavs. One of those three is the top-seed in the play-ins.

For 8-10, it is basically set and it is just seeding: Hornets, Nets, and Hawks.

And in some manner those are the play-off and play-in clubs for the East.

..

[drsd]

The West is almost fully set from 1-10 already.

The Suns is the #1 seed.
Grizz #2
Warriors probably #3
Either Dallas or Jazz at #4 and #5 - so they are playing for the home court.
Nuggets look as the last playoff club at #6 or could overtake Utah.

The Play-ins: Minny is the clear top-seed at #7
Clippers clearly at #8

And the 9-10 slots is between three teams: Pelicans, Lakers, and Spurs.

[drsd]

Who here is surprised that the Spurs has a real chance to be a play-in team?
And to do that means James gets an early Summer holiday. That would be fitting.

..

[MoMM]

Who here is surprised that the Spurs has a real chance to be a play-in team?
And to do that means James gets an early Summer holiday. That would be fitting.

..

Surprised for sure, but then you remember that Greg is their HC, guy is amazing.

Their 3 best players were all picked at #29 (Dejounte, Keldon and White), come on!

[Xatticus]

Who here is surprised that the Spurs has a real chance to be a play-in team?
And to do that means James gets an early Summer holiday. That would be fitting.

..

Surprised for sure, but then you remember that Greg is their HC, guy is amazing.

Their 3 best players were all picked at #29 (Dejounte, Keldon and White), come on!

Their best player is Poeltl and White is in Boston. I wouldn’t go too far in praising the coach of a 30-44 squad. That said, they are better than their record and their starting lineup has been good all year long.

[cedric76]

Who here is surprised that the Spurs has a real chance to be a play-in team?
And to do that means James gets an early Summer holiday. That would be fitting.

..

I m praying for le_cheat to miss the playin

Remember when he said that the person who came up with the play in idea should be fired?