Nurk in full tampering mode…

[DusterBuster]

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If four of the Blazers starting five isn’t Dame/Ant/Grant/Nurk… I will be absolutely stunned.

[Case2012]

He’s a 15 million a year guy and he wants almost double that AND he’s on the last year of his deal, what a horrible move that would be.

Murray will be better, and either Duren or Mathurin have higher ceilings as well IMO, giving up either for him would be a mistake.

IFFFFF we could get him without our pick this year, I would be ok with it but why would Detroit do that? Ugh.

[GEE]

Why the fascination with Grant? I just don't get it.

[Norm2953]

Portland would have to be insane to give up a lottery pick for a player who is about to be paid.

[Dame Lizard]

He’s a 15 million a year guy and he wants almost double that AND he’s on the last year of his deal, what a horrible move that would be.

Murray will be better, and either Duren or Mathurin have higher ceilings as well IMO, giving up either for him would be a mistake.

IFFFFF we could get him without our pick this year, I would be ok with it but why would Detroit do that? Ugh.

Agreed.

If we give up either our pick or New Orleans' pick for Grant, I'll immediately want Cronin gone (consider me having a low temperament given the Olshey experience).

I'd give up a late first for Grant, but not a lottery pick.

[Case2012]

I don’t trust Cronin at all after the LA trade and I pray we find someone that isn’t just a cap expert and has actual negotiation skills before the draft.

That was an idiotic use of assets, and totally unforgivable.

[Dame Lizard]

Grant's stats are borderline chucker. He just isn't worth trading a good pick for, noting he is on a contract year.

[wjun15]

Portland would have to be insane to give up a lottery pick for a player who is about to be paid.

its because we have Dame. as long as we have Dame we're going to put winning now over a project player. also you have to understand that a mid lotto pick is not guaranteed to be a contributor in the nba. look at past drafts and see just how many players turn out to be grants level quickly out of top 10 lotto picks... and of course we wont give a top 5 pick for grant so I'm guessing it would be pelicans pick at best (9/10ish).

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

You can argue all those players are busts/barely starting level players (whether due to injury or not) outside of 3.5 players:

Tatum
Ball (who took time to become who he is today)
Fox
Markannen

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker


2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

All are busts/barely rotational players outside of Towns Russell Porzingis (all in top 4)


Most players look good before they step foot in the nba but the reality is most do not turn out to be good.

Also, people say Cronin is only good at salary cap, but at the same time do you want to put your trust in Cronin to make the right draft pick?

[elias808]

Portland would have to be insane to give up a lottery pick for a player who is about to be paid.

its because we have Dame. as long as we have Dame we're going to put winning now over a project player. also you have to understand that a mid lotto pick is not guaranteed to be a contributor in the nba. look at past drafts and see just how many players turn out to be grants level quickly out of top 10 lotto picks... and of course we wont give a top 5 pick for grant so I'm guessing it would be pelicans pick at best (9/10ish).

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

You can argue all those players are busts/barely starting level players (whether due to injury or not) outside of 3.5 players:

Tatum
Ball (who took time to become who he is today)
Fox
Markannen

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker


2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

All are busts/barely rotational players outside of Towns Russell Porzingis (all in top 4)


Most players look good before they step foot in the nba but the reality is most do not turn out to be good.

Also, people say Cronin is only good at salary cap, but at the same time do you want to put your trust in Cronin to make the right draft pick?

One could argue that poor drafting is to blame. Of those three drafts you mentioned here are some players who were selected in picks 11-20: Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Domantas Sabonis,
Devin Booker, Myles Turner, Terry Rozier,Caris LeVert, and John Collins.

The point being, the draft is typically a total crap shoot for most teams who draft for need over BPA. In addition, I'd rather have higher draft picks so you get more available players to draft from off your big board. To me, this makes far more sense then overpaying for a marginal talent in Grant, while at the same time mortgaging you future by trading away valuable young assets should Grant not be enough to "get you over the hump" (spoiler alert, it won't)

[wjun15]

Portland would have to be insane to give up a lottery pick for a player who is about to be paid.

its because we have Dame. as long as we have Dame we're going to put winning now over a project player. also you have to understand that a mid lotto pick is not guaranteed to be a contributor in the nba. look at past drafts and see just how many players turn out to be grants level quickly out of top 10 lotto picks... and of course we wont give a top 5 pick for grant so I'm guessing it would be pelicans pick at best (9/10ish).

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

You can argue all those players are busts/barely starting level players (whether due to injury or not) outside of 3.5 players:

Tatum
Ball (who took time to become who he is today)
Fox
Markannen

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker


2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

All are busts/barely rotational players outside of Towns Russell Porzingis (all in top 4)


Most players look good before they step foot in the nba but the reality is most do not turn out to be good.

Also, people say Cronin is only good at salary cap, but at the same time do you want to put your trust in Cronin to make the right draft pick?

One could argue that poor drafting is to blame. Of those three drafts you mentioned here are some players who were selected in picks 11-20: Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Domantas Sabonis,
Devin Booker, Myles Turner, Terry Rozier,Caris LeVert, and John Collins.

The point being, the draft is typically a total crap shoot for most teams who draft for need over BPA. In addition, I'd rather have higher draft picks so you get more available players to draft from off your big board. To me, this makes far more sense then overpaying for a marginal talent in Grant, while at the same time mortgaging you future by trading away valuable young assets should Grant not be enough to "get you over the hump" (spoiler alert, it won't)

Right, but you arent making the draft picks for PDX, Cronin is. How do you know Cronin will make the right pick? He could easily draft a Dennis Smith, Noah Vonleh, Meyers Leonard which is then a complete waste. At least you know what you will get in Grant and its someone Dame (whos actually on the court and knows what he needs) covets. And look at the FA's this summer, there are no stars available aside from SGs that dont fit our team since we plan to play Simons at SG (i.e. Beal/Lavine(unlikely))

Our biggest need is at the PF position which is why Grant makes sense. He can create his own shot (although hes not a first option as we saw in Detroit, he would be a great 3rd option). And hes a Billups guy in that hes a great defender (much better when hes not the first option on the other end of the floor) and has great length. There is a reason he played on the olympic team and is a player MANY teams coveted during FA and during trade deadline. A rookie PF will not make the same impact that Grant will make when Dame wants to win.

Sure if you want to trade Dame then I am not for getting someone like Grant because I want the team to go full youth mode to maximize our chances to win a Championship down the line. But as long as Dame is here we should get him the help HE wants.

and btw I'm a Pro-Trade Dame guy when his value is high and I prefer Siakam over Grant (if somehow we can get Spicy P with our pick)

[elias808]

its because we have Dame. as long as we have Dame we're going to put winning now over a project player. also you have to understand that a mid lotto pick is not guaranteed to be a contributor in the nba. look at past drafts and see just how many players turn out to be grants level quickly out of top 10 lotto picks... and of course we wont give a top 5 pick for grant so I'm guessing it would be pelicans pick at best (9/10ish).

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

You can argue all those players are busts/barely starting level players (whether due to injury or not) outside of 3.5 players:

Tatum
Ball (who took time to become who he is today)
Fox
Markannen

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker


2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

All are busts/barely rotational players outside of Towns Russell Porzingis (all in top 4)


Most players look good before they step foot in the nba but the reality is most do not turn out to be good.

Also, people say Cronin is only good at salary cap, but at the same time do you want to put your trust in Cronin to make the right draft pick?

One could argue that poor drafting is to blame. Of those three drafts you mentioned here are some players who were selected in picks 11-20: Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Domantas Sabonis,
Devin Booker, Myles Turner, Terry Rozier,Caris LeVert, and John Collins.

The point being, the draft is typically a total crap shoot for most teams who draft for need over BPA. In addition, I'd rather have higher draft picks so you get more available players to draft from off your big board. To me, this makes far more sense then overpaying for a marginal talent in Grant, while at the same time mortgaging you future by trading away valuable young assets should Grant not be enough to "get you over the hump" (spoiler alert, it won't)

Right, but you arent making the draft picks for PDX, Cronin is. How do you know Cronin will make the right pick? He could easily draft a Dennis Smith, Noah Vonleh, Meyers Leonard which is then a complete waste. At least you know what you will get in Grant and its someone Dame (whos actually on the court and knows what he needs) covets. And look at the FA's this summer, there are no stars available aside from SGs that dont fit our team since we plan to play Simons at SG (i.e. Beal/Lavine(unlikely))

Our biggest need is at the PF position which is why Grant makes sense. He can create his own shot (although hes not a first option as we saw in Detroit, he would be a great 3rd option). And hes a Billups guy in that hes a great defender (much better when hes not the first option on the other end of the floor) and has great length. There is a reason he played on the olympic team and is a player MANY teams coveted during FA and during trade deadline. A rookie PF will not make the same impact that Grant will make when Dame wants to win.

Sure if you want to trade Dame then I am not for getting someone like Grant because I want the team to go full youth mode to maximize our chances to win a Championship down the line. But as long as Dame is here we should get him the help HE wants.

and btw I'm a Pro-Trade Dame guy when his value is high

I should have said that I too am a rehab Dames value and trade him guy myself as well.

In no world should a player be dictating what moves the franchise makes. That's how you get a lebron in LA situation. Sacrificing the overall health/longevity of the franchise to appease your star player is a nonstarter in my book. Especially if the move doesn't put you into contender status, which a trade for Grant would do in my opinion.

As far as Cronin making picks for us, well that's unknown territory. We have zero idea what kind of talent evaluation skills he has, or who he answers to in ownership these days, unlike when PA was still alive. It's risky, for sure but so is any draft for the vast majority of GMs for whatever reason.

To me, going after Grant to make Dame happy, and in turn signing Dame to a huge extension is how to screw a franchise and ultimately make the inevitable rebuild that much more difficult.

"What will be done eventually should be done immediately"

[JasonStern]

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker

2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

Surprising number of Blazer/former Blazer players on that bust list.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

If anyone could draft perfectly they would be getting paid 100 million dollars per year.

[DusterBuster]

If anyone could draft perfectly they would be getting paid 100 million dollars per year.

Yeah, at the end of the day, backtracking draft history like this is kinda pointless. There's a level of randomness to player development that is fully out of a GM or scouting departments hands. Some are certainly more sure bets than others, but once you get outside of that Top 4 maybe for mosts drafts... it's just a bit of a crapshoot because of how many x-factors there will be that are impossible to predict.

[JRoy]

its because we have Dame. as long as we have Dame we're going to put winning now over a project player. also you have to understand that a mid lotto pick is not guaranteed to be a contributor in the nba. look at past drafts and see just how many players turn out to be grants level quickly out of top 10 lotto picks... and of course we wont give a top 5 pick for grant so I'm guessing it would be pelicans pick at best (9/10ish).

Take for instance 2017's top ten picks.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Tatum
4. Josh Jackson
5. Fox
6. Isaac
7. Markkanen
8. Ntilikina
9. Dennis Smith
10. Zach collins

You can argue all those players are busts/barely starting level players (whether due to injury or not) outside of 3.5 players:

Tatum
Ball (who took time to become who he is today)
Fox
Markannen

2016 was a decent in top 10 but most took at least 2-3 years to develop:

1. Simmons
2. Ingram
3. Jaylen Brown
4. Bender
5. Dunn
6. Hield
7. Jamal Murray
8. Marquese Chriss
9. Poetl
10 Thon Maker


2015:

1. Towns
2. Russell
3. Okafor
4. Porzingis
5. Hezonja
6. Cauley Stein
7. Mudiay
8. Stanley Johnson
9. Kaminsky
10. Winslow

All are busts/barely rotational players outside of Towns Russell Porzingis (all in top 4)


Most players look good before they step foot in the nba but the reality is most do not turn out to be good.

Also, people say Cronin is only good at salary cap, but at the same time do you want to put your trust in Cronin to make the right draft pick?

One could argue that poor drafting is to blame. Of those three drafts you mentioned here are some players who were selected in picks 11-20: Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo, Domantas Sabonis,
Devin Booker, Myles Turner, Terry Rozier,Caris LeVert, and John Collins.

The point being, the draft is typically a total crap shoot for most teams who draft for need over BPA. In addition, I'd rather have higher draft picks so you get more available players to draft from off your big board. To me, this makes far more sense then overpaying for a marginal talent in Grant, while at the same time mortgaging you future by trading away valuable young assets should Grant not be enough to "get you over the hump" (spoiler alert, it won't)

Right, but you arent making the draft picks for PDX, Cronin is. How do you know Cronin will make the right pick? He could easily draft a Dennis Smith, Noah Vonleh, Meyers Leonard which is then a complete waste. At least you know what you will get in Grant and its someone Dame (whos actually on the court and knows what he needs) covets. And look at the FA's this summer, there are no stars available aside from SGs that dont fit our team since we plan to play Simons at SG (i.e. Beal/Lavine(unlikely))

Our biggest need is at the PF position which is why Grant makes sense. He can create his own shot (although hes not a first option as we saw in Detroit, he would be a great 3rd option). And hes a Billups guy in that hes a great defender (much better when hes not the first option on the other end of the floor) and has great length. There is a reason he played on the olympic team and is a player MANY teams coveted during FA and during trade deadline. A rookie PF will not make the same impact that Grant will make when Dame wants to win.

Sure if you want to trade Dame then I am not for getting someone like Grant because I want the team to go full youth mode to maximize our chances to win a Championship down the line. But as long as Dame is here we should get him the help HE wants.

and btw I'm a Pro-Trade Dame guy when his value is high and I prefer Siakam over Grant (if somehow we can get Spicy P with our pick)

POR needs high end talent, not an overpaid roleplayer.

[Norm2953]

Cronin might be in NO's chair but Portland's scouts and personnel guys are still in place for NO wasn't a
one man scouting operation.

I think this draft will be like the last couple of drafts for the draft combine like its had with the NFL, has
narrowed the mistakes teams make. There will be useful players scattered in the first round and I just
hate sacrificing even one hard earned lottery pick.

Let's just see what price Detroit would want for Grant. if its a player we really do not have (Bledsoe) + a
very late lottery pick, it might be okay for Portland would still have its TPE/non tax MLE. I'd rather
trade both SRP + either Bledsoe or the TPE (their choice).

[BlazersBroncos]

Cronin might be in NO's chair but Portland's scouts and personnel guys are still in place for NO wasn't a
one man scouting operation.

I think this draft will be like the last couple of drafts for the draft combine like its had with the NFL, has
narrowed the mistakes teams make. There will be useful players scattered in the first round and I just
hate sacrificing even one hard earned lottery pick.

Let's just see what price Detroit would want for Grant. if its a player we really do not have (Bledsoe) + a
very late lottery pick, it might be okay for Portland would still have its TPE/non tax MLE. I'd rather
trade both SRP + either Bledsoe or the TPE (their choice).

I do wonder if CHA would be in cost cutting mode after paying Miles the mas. Bledsoe + Winslow + PDX SRP for Gordon would be risk but also let us keep our 2 LPs.

Hell, I would do Bledsoe + Winslow + Lower LP (9/10) for Hayward + 14

7 - Keegan Murray F
14 - Walker Kessler C
MLE - Kyle Anderson F

G - Damian Lillard / Anfernee Simons
G - Anfernee Simons / Josh Hart
F - Gordon Hayward / Nas Little
F - Kyle Anderson / Keegan Murray
C - Jusuf Nurkic / Walker Kessler

[Norm2953]

Hayward like Nurk has missed a lot of games in recent seasons.

I could live with Nas and Hart as the SF. What Portland really needs is a true PF to play the Aldridge
role. That guy is not Murray, Anderson and Grant. Duren is closest in this draft to that player but as
we saw in Portland against Gonzaga, he's as green as grass.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Hayward like Nurk has missed a lot of games in recent seasons.

I could live with Nas and Hart as the SF. What Portland really needs is a true PF to play the Aldridge
role. That guy is not Murray, Anderson and Grant. Duren is closest in this draft to that player but as
we saw in Portland against Gonzaga, he's as green as grass.

Huh, I don't see how Duren is anything like Aldridge.. I don't think he is even a PF but an undersized and low skilled or at least very raw center whose biggest impact would (eventually) be defensively.

[Norm2953]

Hayward like Nurk has missed a lot of games in recent seasons.

I could live with Nas and Hart as the SF. What Portland really needs is a true PF to play the Aldridge
role. That guy is not Murray, Anderson and Grant. Duren is closest in this draft to that player but as
we saw in Portland against Gonzaga, he's as green as grass.

Huh, I don't see how Duren is anything like Aldridge.. I don't think he is even a PF but an undersized and low skilled or at least very raw center whose biggest impact would (eventually) be defensively.

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/jalen-duren/

He is as green as grass but athletically he's got every tool a team could ask for. He's going to need a lot of patient
coaching and might see some time in the G league but remember LA was 21 in his first year in Portland. Duren
won't turn 19 until the end of 2022 and is a great fit if the team builds around Simons.