Hawks are 17-24. What's happening?

[ChuckChilly]

93 Points and 16 Assist in two days for Trae. Not bad

[muzzhawk]

We are finally back to .500 behind another amazing game by the best guard in the NBA Trae Young. 46 points and 12 assists. AMAZING game by the best guard in the NBA. It was worth repeating. At the time of this terrible thread the Hawks were 17-24 only due to injuries and the worst covid missed game situation of the entire NBA. We are now 34-34. 17-10 even with injuries since this thread was started. Appreciate the basketball karma this thread enabled the basketball gods to work their will through.

All the other stuff aside, the 17-10 record extrapolates out to a 51 win team which is probably within range of this team's capability (albeit maybe at the higher end) and puts them in the 2-5 seed range in the East. That's probably in line with were people's expectations at the start of the season.

[ShootersShoot]

Reddish is 22, 6'8, averaging 11 on 40/36 splits (4 3 point attempts). He averaged 13 on 53/64 (3.5 3 point attempts) in the playoffs a few months ago. He returned from injury in the playoffs as a 2nd year player... and put up more than he did during the season. As an observer, that reads to me a player who is not shy in big moments. His increase from 36% in 3 point land this year from last years 26% and the year befores 33% tells me he's been working at his efficiency from three, but still has a LOT of work to do on his overall efficiency. I dont know about his defensive impact. Hes young though. Modest value is questionable?
Then you have:
Deendre Huntre 11/2/0.5 45/40 24 years old
Kevin Huerter 11/3/2 47/40 23 years old
And the ability to package other vets on the roster with positive value for younger players and/or other team draft picks to net a superstar. For example, I think Bogdan could bring a young player on a 2-10 seed whos looking for a shooter, but has a promising young player (& another vet to make the salary situation work).

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

So are we still taking Hunter/Heurter/Reddish over Ben simmons and maxey?

[Jaqua92]

Trae Young isn't the best guard in the NBA.

Luka and Steph are consensus top 10 players. Trae is not

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[bbalnation]

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

Not Kawhi Leonard.

Edit: I didn't include Onyeka, because I didn't know much about him, but he also looks great. Hes 21, has size and is mobile. Not really like what the Sixers can offer in terms of young prospects (and what the league is headed towards, according to the trends of rebuilding teams like the Cavs, Raptors and Thunder).

So are we still taking Hunter/Heurter/Reddish over Ben simmons and maxey?

If you'd really like to, ask me again how Cam, Huerter, Onyeka look in 2-4 years. That's usually how I assess trades in a situation where a rebuild was the explicit purpose.

Cheers.

[threethehardway]

Trae Young isn't the best guard in the NBA.

Luka and Steph are consensus top 10 players. Trae is not

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Trae Young has been more consistent than Luka and Steph this year.

Trae absolutely is the best PG in the NBA this year.

[Sothron]

Trae Young is the best guard in the NBA.

Luka and Steph are not consensus top 10 players. Trae is.

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Fixed your post for you. You can paypal me later.

[Sothron]

And we're back to .500 despite missing several players on the road. Need to keep this winning up. Trae Young and Bogi were amazing tonight.

[Pelly24]

Trae is so good man. I'm confident saying he's better than Harden, and the only guards he's *definitely* not better than are Luka and Steph (and Steph he'll pass if Steph is this mid for most of next year) and healthy Dame (who is forgotten about a little bit).

[KGtabake]

Trae Young is the best guard in the NBA.

Luka and Steph are not consensus top 10 players. Trae is.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Fixed your post for you. You can paypal me later.

I don't think anyone (non hawks fan i mean) would pick Young over Curry, Morant or Doncic.
Morant isn't top10 either.
That's not necessarily a knock. It's a testament of how competitive the position is.

[Johnny Tomala]

I'd have Trae Young over Morant. I don't see anything special in Morant, I think he's a little overrated.

[LordCovington33]

Just a horrible thought occurred to me: imagine the Sixers meeting the Hawks again in the playoffs and they knock us out again. The internet would go crazy.

[NO-KG-AI]

I'd have Trae Young over Morant. I don't see anything special in Morant, I think he's a little overrated.

I'd take Trae over Morant right now, but they are both most definitely special players.

[HotelVitale]

I mean, I already gave a neutral take on them and don't feel like it's controversial. No one is looking at Huerter and Reddish and thinking they're centerpieces of a competitive offer for a star. It's not a knock on them, just a real/fair discussion of value. E.g. we obviously have to take Reddish's very long track record of being very inefficient--and the fact that even with the shooting upticks you mentioned he still has meh efficiency and bad advanced stats--in addition to some of the positives around him. No one is confident he's a solid starter going forward, and he's being shopped for a first now and I would bet against him fetching anything more than a late one. (Quoting Huerter and Hunter putting up low volume scoring on solid efficiency also doesn't tell us much about their general trade value.)

Hawks definitely have some an unusual amount of intriguing young guys, but one or more of those players will have to elevate themselves for a stretch of time before the Hawks have that great star offer. Hunter's the closest to a trade headliner but teams have to be uneasy about him given this year's injury and general downtick. A team might possibly prefer getting like 3 young guys and 3 later 1sts to a more surefire younger star or higher picks but I doubt it, and in any case there's no point in speculating on unusual things like the Kawhi trade happening again.

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

So are we still taking Hunter/Heurter/Reddish over Ben simmons and maxey?

Oh well, you tried. Accountability's hard to come by on the GB.

[bstein14]

Got steam rolled by the Pistons tonight. Hawks aren't getting out of the play-in games. They just haven't had the fire/fight in them for most of the season. They had one good stretch of games for a few weeks.

[Plossum]

And we're back to .500 despite missing several players on the road. Need to keep this winning up. Trae Young and Bogi were amazing tonight.

Hang that banner, baby!

[Saint Lazarus]

And we're back to .500 despite missing several players on the road. Need to keep this winning up. Trae Young and Bogi were amazing tonight.

Implosion over at the Squawk. Supes against the world.

[Sothron]

Got steam rolled by the Pistons tonight. Hawks aren't getting out of the play-in games. They just haven't had the fire/fight in them for most of the season. They had one good stretch of games for a few weeks.

We were missing several players but yes, hat's off to the Pistons. They seem to get up to play us for some reason.

Hawks season has been missing a ton of games from injuries and covid. When the team is actually healthy it projects to a 50-55 win club which is pretty accurate for how good they are versus how good the East is.

[bbalnation]

I'll be more specific.

If im Portland and Damian wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben and Maxey or others (3 way trade?).

Or Washington and Bradley wants out, that's the collective of players I would rather, over Ben, Maxey, Shake Milton, etc.

So are we still taking Hunter/Heurter/Reddish over Ben simmons and maxey?

Oh well, you tried. Accountability's hard to come by on the GB.

I mean, it's accountability over NBA basketball where I dont make decisions. I've been wrong before (I didn't like Demar for Kawhi for example for the Raptors: I was wrong).

I just choose patience situationally. In this case, I choose to wait a couple years.

[HotelVitale]

So are we still taking Hunter/Heurter/Reddish over Ben simmons and maxey?

Oh well, you tried. Accountability's hard to come by on the GB.

I mean, it's accountability over NBA basketball where I dont make decisions. I've been wrong before (I didn't like Demar for Kawhi for example for the Raptors: I was wrong). I just choose patience situationally. In this case, I choose to wait a couple years.

Just accountability for your takes. Part of the fun for this whole thing, talking about the game gets better when you're actually trying to make real predictions/takes and then seeing what happens. Not a lot of fun to play the game if you're throwing ish up at the well and then saying 'well no I didn't say THAT, I just meant that it was possible that Jaxon Hayes was better than Zion' or 'don't look at me, we can't judge my take for another 10 years cuz anything could happen.' It's like the kid who gives up halfway through the pick up game because things aren't looking good for him.

In this case you were baldly overrating the three young Hawks wings. Ignoring the various things about them that made them shaky trade pieces--Reddish's efficiency and mental stuff, Huerter's long track record of being okay-not-great, Hunter's injuries and age (he's less than a year younger than Simmons)--and only seeing the upside stuff. And you were for some reason not extending that same grace to a guy like Maxey--who has so far proven to be the best young prospect of the bunch--and also totally overlooking Simmons' value. (Haliburton was on the table for Simmons, for example). It wasn't impossible that you were right--the best version of Hunter is really good, and it was possible that Reddish could put everything together, etc--but that possibility was far less likely than the opposite. It just wasn't a very good take, and time has proven it even worse.

Also if your one example of you taking an L was a take so bad that it would've cost the Raptors a title--you're maybe not being humble enough? The best NBA scouts are just barely batting like .350-400. You're either taking too obvious of takes to even talk about, or you're not really holding yourself to what you're saying at all.