Suns Just Another Team

[SkyBill40]

I'm just glad on behalf of the OP that the Suns got past the Kings in OT last night. This could have been the ultimate jinx thread.

Well they were missing their top 2 PGs (Paul and Payne) and their top 2 PFs (Crowder and Cam Johnson). Both of the Cam's being out are like missing 2 spark 6th man types off the bench too.

They started Elfrid Payton. And Torrey Craig at PF.

Then Ayton fouled out (played with 5 for a long time), and then their backup C, McGee fouled out, then Booker fouled out.

So they were a bit shorthanded.

I wasn't making fun of the Suns performance in that game. I was just thinking that often when RGM posters make a thread to hype their team it ends up being a jinx. It's like a tradition around here and has happened to the Celts plenty of times for example. So when I saw that the Suns were in a close game that night I thought "Oh no I hope that Suns thread from earlier doesn't end up being a jinx."

I'm going to stop commenting on this thread because I keep being taken as insulting I guess when in my mind all I've done is compliment the Suns and be my normal goofy self.

I didn't see anything offensive or insulting in your post. You were spot on. I, too, am glad it didn't jinx them.

[bwgood77]

Well they were missing their top 2 PGs (Paul and Payne) and their top 2 PFs (Crowder and Cam Johnson). Both of the Cam's being out are like missing 2 spark 6th man types off the bench too.

They started Elfrid Payton. And Torrey Craig at PF.

Then Ayton fouled out (played with 5 for a long time), and then their backup C, McGee fouled out, then Booker fouled out.

So they were a bit shorthanded.

I wasn't making fun of the Suns performance in that game. I was just thinking that often when RGM posters make a thread to hype their team it ends up being a jinx. It's like a tradition around here and has happened to the Celts plenty of times for example. So when I saw that the Suns were in a close game that night I thought "Oh no I hope that Suns thread from earlier doesn't end up being a jinx."

I'm going to stop commenting on this thread because I keep being taken as insulting I guess when in my mind all I've done is compliment the Suns and be my normal goofy self.

I didn't see anything offensive or insulting in your post. You were spot on. I, too, am glad it didn't jinx them.

Yeah, for the record I didn't think it was bashing the Suns or anything or take it negatively, just wasn't sure if you (bisme) knew how depleted they were. That ended up being a great win considering they were playing Bridges, 3rd stringers and partial games from Ayton, Booker and McGee.

[bisme37]

I wasn't making fun of the Suns performance in that game. I was just thinking that often when RGM posters make a thread to hype their team it ends up being a jinx. It's like a tradition around here and has happened to the Celts plenty of times for example. So when I saw that the Suns were in a close game that night I thought "Oh no I hope that Suns thread from earlier doesn't end up being a jinx."

I'm going to stop commenting on this thread because I keep being taken as insulting I guess when in my mind all I've done is compliment the Suns and be my normal goofy self.

I didn't see anything offensive or insulting in your post. You were spot on. I, too, am glad it didn't jinx them.

Yeah, for the record I didn't think it was bashing the Suns or anything or take it negatively, just wasn't sure if you (bisme) knew how depleted they were. That ended up being a great win considering they were playing Bridges, 3rd stringers and partial games from Ayton, Booker and McGee.

It's all good. I'd actually already told myself to move on from this thread because on the first page I said I consider the Suns to be the title favorites and still the OP quoted me to say that wasn't good enough and I should say it even more strongly or something. I really like the Suns and I feel like I've been nice about the whole thing and I somehow keep annoying people anyway haha. Cheers.

[Mr Puddles]

Because they aren't going to win it all and aren't the favorite. There's better teams.

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Celtics, Bucks, and fully healthy Warriors are just better than Phoenix.

Talent matters, and the Suns wouldn't have the 1st or 2nd best players in any of those series.

This is why the General Board is so valuable. I can learn all about how teams with TWICE as many losses as Phoenix this season are "just better" than the Suns.

How a team that has lost by an average of 19ppg in 3 meetings against the Suns this year will be the clear favourite if they face Phoenix in the first round.

And, how going 12-4 without our only All NBA player from last season missing (along with a slew of other guys) isn't that impressive.

All in the same thread!

Man, I'm learning so much here.

[LukaTheGOAT]

The Phoenix Suns have a 120 ORTG since CP3 last played a game for them. This is higher than the ORTG they had with CP3 ON the floor since the start of the season.

The average DRTG they faced in this span was 112.2, which would rank slightly below average in the league. However
a +7.8 ORTG is historical pretty much anyway you slice it.

They also were a +11 offense against the two top 10 defenses they did face (Miami and Utah), so it's not like they solely beat up on Houston and collapsed against higher level competition.

Are we witnessing one of the GOAT coaching peaks in Monty Williams?

[DroseReturnChi]

they will never win a ring cp3 will be injured just in time. history repeats itself.

[SkyBill40]

they will never win a ring cp3 will be injured just in time. history repeats itself.

Until it doesn't... and then what?

[bwgood77]

The Phoenix Suns have a 120 ORTG since CP3 last played a game for them. This is higher than the ORTG they had with CP3 ON the floor since the start of the season.

The average DRTG they faced in this span was 112.2, which would rank slightly below average in the league. However
a +7.8 ORTG is historical pretty much anyway you slice it.

They also were a +11 offense against the two top 10 defenses they did face (Miami and Utah), so it's not like they solely beat up on Houston and collapsed against higher level competition.

Are we witnessing one of the GOAT coaching peaks in Monty Williams?

Yeah, I also really think guys like Bridges and Ayton are often underutilized when Paul is there because they have a bunch of guys who could be a second option. Cam Johnson is close too.

Bridges and Ayton have always been really efficient.

I think Ayton has the 2nd best FG% in history in a season for players who shot 11+ shots per game. What's crazy is that he is shooting a ton of midrange shots, but his efficiency in the mid range is elite... 63% 3-10 ft, 52.5% 10-16 ft, and 47% from 16 ft-3pt range.

Ayton is crushing everyone this year who shoots 10+ shots in FG% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=FG_PCT&dir=-1&CF=FGA*G*10&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

You'd think that the best FG% would be someone who almost exclusively dunked like Shaq. Someone like Gobert is higher because he pretty much just dunks but shoots under 8 shots a game.

Then Bridges is an elite finisher at the rim and a solid 3 pt shooter (better last year though), but this year has added a great midrange game as well.

[YourCellarDoor]

even places that are more plugged in still follow the narratives that the national media puts out there to some degree. the suns just aren't a sexy team. not a major market, no true superstars. a deep, good, well-coached team in a medium sized market will always be slept on for that reason. the story just isn't as good, so people will talk themselves into the idea that they are fake contenders.

Phoenix is the #11 TV market in the country--only slightly behind Boston at #10.

It is significantly ahead of Seattle, Tampa, Minny, Denver, Detroit, Orlando, Miami, Cleveland, Sacramento.

It is twice the size of Portland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Indy. Salt Lake City, San Antonio. Pittsburg, Baltimore, Nashville, Kansas City, Vegas or OKC.

It is in the top tier of TV markets. Just going by cities, it is even higher.

It's 12th because Toronto is included. And there's such a large dropoff after the NYC/LA mega-markets that I would definitely consider the 12th ranked market medium sized. The difference between the Phoenix market and the Chicago market is about the same as the difference between Phoenix and the last placed market (Memphis).

[Prez]

I really don’t think the post prime Duncan Spurs comparison is something to dismiss. I don’t think the point of the comparison is to say the rosters are constructed the same way or they play the same way, because they don’t. I think it’s more about how surgical they are, just top tier execution possession after possession, really on both ends. Not really a 2-3 minute scoring avalanche team like the 2017 Warriors, but again a possession by possession thing where they break you over time.

Obviously the Bucks have to make the finals for it to actually matter, but if the Bucks make the finals the Suns are the only team that I would be concerned about out West.

[handsome salary]

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Just another historic team.

[carrrnuttt]

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[Calvin Klein]

[bwgood77]

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Pretty crazy with Paul missing a month and Ayton missing around the same.

[jcsunsfan]

even places that are more plugged in still follow the narratives that the national media puts out there to some degree. the suns just aren't a sexy team. not a major market, no true superstars. a deep, good, well-coached team in a medium sized market will always be slept on for that reason. the story just isn't as good, so people will talk themselves into the idea that they are fake contenders.

Phoenix is the #11 TV market in the country--only slightly behind Boston at #10.

It is significantly ahead of Seattle, Tampa, Minny, Denver, Detroit, Orlando, Miami, Cleveland, Sacramento.

It is twice the size of Portland, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Indy. Salt Lake City, San Antonio. Pittsburg, Baltimore, Nashville, Kansas City, Vegas or OKC.

It is in the top tier of TV markets. Just going by cities, it is even higher.

It's 12th because Toronto is included. And there's such a large dropoff after the NYC/LA mega-markets that I would definitely consider the 12th ranked market medium sized. The difference between the Phoenix market and the Chicago market is about the same as the difference between Phoenix and the last placed market (Memphis).

You need to call Boston, Philly, Detroit etc medium markets too. No one does.

[jcsunsfan]

Suns are a great team, albeit not a historically great one. Warriors are the only team I can see beating them in the West. Utah is fraudulent, Denver won’t be healthy and it’s really hard for them to defend the CP3 P&R with Jokic, and I think Memphis’s strengths (forcing turnovers and running in transition) will be diminished in the playoffs. It’s the Suns’ conference to lose.

Memphis is the only team I can see beating them in the West.

[DirtyDez]

they will never win a ring cp3 will be injured just in time. history repeats itself.

That’s why we’re getting his injury out of the way early.

[sunsbg]

Suns playing great and no one can say now it's only because they are healthy. Booker and Ayton playing even better without CP3. This is a team to stay at the top even when CP3 retires.

[hardenASG13]

The Phoenix Suns have a 120 ORTG since CP3 last played a game for them. This is higher than the ORTG they had with CP3 ON the floor since the start of the season.

The average DRTG they faced in this span was 112.2, which would rank slightly below average in the league. However
a +7.8 ORTG is historical pretty much anyway you slice it.

They also were a +11 offense against the two top 10 defenses they did face (Miami and Utah), so it's not like they solely beat up on Houston and collapsed against higher level competition.

Are we witnessing one of the GOAT coaching peaks in Monty Williams?

Yeah, I also really think guys like Bridges and Ayton are often underutilized when Paul is there because they have a bunch of guys who could be a second option. Cam Johnson is close too.

Bridges and Ayton have always been really efficient.

I think Ayton has the 2nd best FG% in history in a season for players who shot 11+ shots per game. What's crazy is that he is shooting a ton of midrange shots, but his efficiency in the mid range is elite... 63% 3-10 ft, 52.5% 10-16 ft, and 47% from 16 ft-3pt range.

Ayton is crushing everyone this year who shoots 10+ shots in FG% https://www.nba.com/stats/players/traditional/?sort=FG_PCT&dir=-1&CF=FGA*G*10&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

You'd think that the best FG% would be someone who almost exclusively dunked like Shaq. Someone like Gobert is higher because he pretty much just dunks but shoots under 8 shots a game.

Then Bridges is an elite finisher at the rim and a solid 3 pt shooter (better last year though), but this year has added a great midrange game as well.

I agree with all this. Yet most people say CP3 is the one that elevates all their players, ignoring the rise they were on before he arrived and the addition of Jae Crowder. Cam payne is also still replicating Cp3s numbers in his place, as the sample grows and the wins keep comimg. Yet we get a bunch of threads about Ja morant because the grizz just won two more games without him, with tyus jones not putting up 26/6/6 in his place (their winning isnt sustainable without Ja....phoenix's is, their backup pg puts up the same numbers as Cp3). Smh

[carrrnuttt]

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