PG: Tank L Kids W

[thebuzzardman]

Yes, hiring Thibs and drafting Obi at the same time was a fail, but just fellate Obi and get it over with

Sorry, you've been bogarting his joint


It's not a critique of Obi. It's that the FO doesn't operate with any vision or sense of planning.
Even if Obi turns out to be only ok - or good - or excellent, it doesn't change the point of the post, which is within the space of a year, their approach was completely f*cked up, planning and vision wise.

I don't this is a premature judgement, where I'll usually go "well, there are some other moves they need to make".

They made the moves. They drafted Obi, then maxed Randle, then signed and resigned Noel. With Thibs as coach.

It's laughable.

I agree with your core premise. I think we all agree on this. The haphazard strategy towards roster fit and development is only possible to overcome if they get lucky and capture lightning in a bottle with a draft pick that transforms the franchise.

Even with the snafus, they doubled down on Randle after he played like a scared turkey vs. ATL. The double irony was Obi was one of our only players who shined in that series. And they still over-committed to Randle. It remains their # 1 firable offense and there is no way to excuse it.

It would have to be incredible luck in the draft or some wildly unlikely trade, where Zion has all the leverage and the Knicks don't give up TOO much. Or Ayton shakes free and the Knicks get lucky, but why Detroit wouldn't just get him instead I can't explain.

And I have Zion injury concerns and have no faith this FO could pull off the correct deal for either Zion or Ayton.
Plus, I think somehow they think they they will get KAT and this is the "master plan" that WWW has been selling Dolan while he cashes 3+ years of multimillion dollar paychecks. Dolan. What an easy mark.

[dakomish23]

True.

He'd have probably had a good game.

Per my other post, Knicks need to make some decisions.

Easy ones include jettisoning Noel into the sun, trading Randle. At least for me. Or invert that.

Anyway, Let Mitch go if they insist on keeping Randle and Obi. Either one needs time at the 5. RJ and Cam could use time at the 4.
This probably doesn't work if Thibs is the coach.

Move Randle for Zion. Try to keep Obi. It's unlikely to be the case, but even in this scenario, Noel needs to go. Or Mitch. My preference is Mitch stays, but again, I'd like to see the Knicks make decisions that make some sort of sense.

Once the Knicks resigned Randle, with RJ's extension surely on their mind, the Knicks decided to operate over the cap. We've covered this and Cohen from Macri's thing goes over it well. There are MLE benefits to doing it, at least for a few years. Knicks will have the larger MLE this offseason - the one that alternates.

Just resign Mitch, if he's willing. He might chase the extra 3 million per a team can offer, since the Knicks kind of overpaid him for a few years. But I'd give him the max the Knicks can offer. He'd still be moveable in a future trade, and Knicks kind of committed to operating with trades for the next 4 years anyway.

Richardmany4's or BXetcetc may have different points to make.

What’s your opinion on a Randle for Ayton swap if PHX doesn’t want to pay him

In a second. We'd probably have to send picks though.
Don't see Phoenix doing it.
Maybe giving them Noel (lolz) makes it easier, as they get some highly theoretical defense at the 5 backl

My bad I meant Mitch

[Jimmit79]

It looks like this FO is letting Mitch walk for nothing because they have Sims. That’s the only conclusion I can draw. It’s dumb, because at least they could have locked up Mitch a long time ago on a quality deal. Then they could have used him for a trade if they wanted to go with Sims. Another head scratcher.

They could still sign Mitch, but it will cost much more now

I like mitch's shot blocking he's also a funny guy but at the end of day knicks are gonna suck with or without him so....

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[dakomish23]

Spoiler:

Let the kids keep cooking

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

?s=21

Wish Mitch could have been part of it! Might of had 20

Would of clogged the paint.

Gonna agree to disagree on that.

What if we have had a guy who could both step out for the pop or rise up for the lob

[Spree2Houston]

Obi just needs to become a better 3pt shooter and watch his game go off

[Knicksfan1992]

Obi just needs to become a better 3pt shooter and watch his game go off

36.8% in the month of March so far! Baby steps...

[K_ick_God]

Watching Knicks with Randle.


Then without.

[Clyde_Style]

Sorry, you've been bogarting his joint


It's not a critique of Obi. It's that the FO doesn't operate with any vision or sense of planning.
Even if Obi turns out to be only ok - or good - or excellent, it doesn't change the point of the post, which is within the space of a year, their approach was completely f*cked up, planning and vision wise.

I don't this is a premature judgement, where I'll usually go "well, there are some other moves they need to make".

They made the moves. They drafted Obi, then maxed Randle, then signed and resigned Noel. With Thibs as coach.

It's laughable.

I agree with your core premise. I think we all agree on this. The haphazard strategy towards roster fit and development is only possible to overcome if they get lucky and capture lightning in a bottle with a draft pick that transforms the franchise.

Even with the snafus, they doubled down on Randle after he played like a scared turkey vs. ATL. The double irony was Obi was one of our only players who shined in that series. And they still over-committed to Randle. It remains their # 1 firable offense and there is no way to excuse it.

It would have to be incredible luck in the draft or some wildly unlikely trade, where Zion has all the leverage and the Knicks don't give up TOO much. Or Ayton shakes free and the Knicks get lucky, but why Detroit wouldn't just get him instead I can't explain.

And I have Zion injury concerns and have no faith this FO could pull off the correct deal for either Zion or Ayton.
Plus, I think somehow they think they they will get KAT and this is the "master plan" that WWW has been selling Dolan while he cashes 3+ years of multimillion dollar paychecks. Dolan. What an easy mark.

The only one I think they can engineer a favorable deal for is Zion since he is clearly going to put the screws to NO. If that allows us to ship out Randle its a big win already.

NY would give up the farm to get KAT.

Zion is a roll of the dice guy. Either he is playing possum and will lay off the Bojangles once he gets what he wants or he’ll become a Knick and Sweetney himself out of the league.

Since we always suck, I say roll the dice on Zion. If he can stay in shape he’s scary good and like having two Charles Barkleys in one body. If he eats himself out of here, then it’s just the same old chit and I’d take that risk.

I don’t think Ayton transforms anything unless this FO gets its head out of its azz in regards to the PG position.

[K_ick_God]

Randle's face needs to be on Eyore, stat!

i hope this lives up to your expectations ...

Spoiler:

Talent!

[sol537]

1. S&T Mitch to Mem for Tyus Jones
2. Draft BPA's at our two spots
3. Trade Randle + Fournier to LAL for Westbrook + two 2nds + pick swap. Buy WB out.
4. Start -> Tyus + Grimes + RJ + Obi + Sims. Let the kids grow together and see who are the long-term keepers.

[whocares1]

It’s pretty clear that Leon avoids the media because he doesn’t really have a plan in place.

-He drafted Obi, a player who plays only one position but clearly was meant to replace Julius Randle.

-Randle has a breakout season so they switch plans and extend him, while blaming his supporting cast for his struggles in the playoffs. So they sign Fournier and Kemba to help him with the scoring load.

-Now Randle struggles and RJ sees an uptick in production so they trade for Cam bc clearly they want to bring in Zion who would be Randle’s replacement.

So the FO has no actual plan. It just rides the wave on what happens in the NBA world.

[K_ick_God]

Randle is a 5. He should be playing there to provide some spacing...for himself as well as others. Probably a better defender at the 5 as well. His passing would even be better for the team at the 5. It would make a lot of things better for the entire team. Thibs is a moron. The FO is pretty bad at team fit as well. I have been saying Randle should be playing the 5 and his actual best role on any team is a bench big. The FO decided to pay him and the HC decided to play him as a #1 option point forward. Ridiculous. Hopefully he can be traded along with Burks and Noel this summer. Get a real PG and we have a shot at looking like an actual team next year. Build from there. Enough with washed vets playing out of position and having no accountability.

I've been calling for this for a while.

Rim protection will suffer, but the team's foot speed on defense, and the offense will be much more potent.

It will be difficult for big centers to chase Randle around and contest his 3's.

His D is bad and he's still gonna dribble lol. I don't see it. I think he's just an addition by subtraction guy.

[thebuzzardman]

What’s your opinion on a Randle for Ayton swap if PHX doesn’t want to pay him

In a second. We'd probably have to send picks though.
Don't see Phoenix doing it.
Maybe giving them Noel (lolz) makes it easier, as they get some highly theoretical defense at the 5 backl

My bad I meant Mitch

I'd do Mitch for Ayton as well.

Sure, top level Mitch is a great defender and rebounder, but Ayton isn't a slouch and brings more on offense.

[2010]

Get Randle tfoh and his staunchest supporters can go root for him on whatever team he lands on. At this point it’s really that simple.

[dakomish23]

In a second. We'd probably have to send picks though.
Don't see Phoenix doing it.
Maybe giving them Noel (lolz) makes it easier, as they get some highly theoretical defense at the 5 backl

My bad I meant Mitch

I'd do Mitch for Ayton as well.

Sure, top level Mitch is a great defender and rebounder, but Ayton isn't a slouch and brings more on offense.

As a Mitch fanatic I’m torn but I think it’s very obvious the upside you get with a guy like Ayton. Could potentially be the #1 that allows guys to drop into more appropriate roles

[dakomish23]

It’s pretty clear that Leon avoids the media because he doesn’t really have a plan in place.

-He drafted Obi, a player who plays only one position but clearly was meant to replace Julius Randle.

-Randle has a breakout season so they switch plans and extend him, while blaming his supporting cast for his struggles in the playoffs. So they sign Fournier and Kemba to help him with the scoring load.

-Now Randle struggles and RJ sees an uptick in production so they trade for Cam bc clearly they want to bring in Zion who would be Randle’s replacement.

So the FO has no actual plan. It just rides the wave on what happens in the NBA world.

And they also don’t seem to have a good grasp on how to maximize the strengths of the players they want to build around

[sol537]

It would prob have to be Mitch + picks (or Mitch + IQ) for Ayton in a S&T.

Ayton + Obi + RJ + Grimes + PG is actually pretty darn good.

Would have to dump Randle on a team like LAL for an expiring though (Westbrook?)

[HighRyzer83]

Everyone is pleasantly surprised by Obi but this is par for the course whenever he got consistent minutes. Thibs really fuged up his ROY potential. At some point he and the Knicks will have to come to terms that Obi is actually a better/more impactful player than Randle.

[HighRyzer83]

I agree with your core premise. I think we all agree on this. The haphazard strategy towards roster fit and development is only possible to overcome if they get lucky and capture lightning in a bottle with a draft pick that transforms the franchise.

Even with the snafus, they doubled down on Randle after he played like a scared turkey vs. ATL. The double irony was Obi was one of our only players who shined in that series. And they still over-committed to Randle. It remains their # 1 firable offense and there is no way to excuse it.

It would have to be incredible luck in the draft or some wildly unlikely trade, where Zion has all the leverage and the Knicks don't give up TOO much. Or Ayton shakes free and the Knicks get lucky, but why Detroit wouldn't just get him instead I can't explain.

And I have Zion injury concerns and have no faith this FO could pull off the correct deal for either Zion or Ayton.
Plus, I think somehow they think they they will get KAT and this is the "master plan" that WWW has been selling Dolan while he cashes 3+ years of multimillion dollar paychecks. Dolan. What an easy mark.

The only one I think they can engineer a favorable deal for is Zion since he is clearly going to put the screws to NO. If that allows us to ship out Randle its a big win already.

NY would give up the farm to get KAT.

Zion is a roll of the dice guy. Either he is playing possum and will lay off the Bojangles once he gets what he wants or he’ll become a Knick and Sweetney himself out of the league.

Since we always suck, I say roll the dice on Zion. If he can stay in shape he’s scary good and like having two Charles Barkleys in one body. If he eats himself out of here, then it’s just the same old chit and I’d take that risk.

I don’t think Ayton transforms anything unless this FO gets its head out of its azz in regards to the PG position.

Despite his eating habits, I think the scariest part about it is his knee.

[dakomish23]

It would prob have to be Mitch + picks (or Mitch + IQ) for Ayton in a S&T.

Ayton + Obi + RJ + Grimes + PG is actually pretty darn good.

Would have to dump Randle on a team like LAL for an expiring though (Westbrook?)

Brunson