Myth wrote:mademan wrote:Myth wrote:It factors, but it is suddenly being over emphasized by LeBron fans. How it has been talked about recently is definitely inconsistent with how people have talked about these records historically. It used to be a record is a record, but now people talk about it as an achievement once reached puts him over Jordan. We don’t see this anywhere else. For a recent example, nobody says Melo was below Dominque in all-time ranking but now that he moved from #10 to #9 in scoring means he is better than Nique.
Lebron has a peak and prime that matches anybody too tho. It's not like his entire argument is longevity, it's that his longevity has only been achieved by a couple of guys, and he seems to be surpassing all of them.
Other people have other criteria, but to me GOAT has always been who has accomplished the most in the league, and it will end up being Lebron mostly because of his crazy longevity.
I'm not saying LeBron doesn't have a case nor that longevity should be ignored, but pointing out that the record is being overly set up as some bench mark that means something more than it is. If somebody believes LeBron is better than Jordan, than so be it. But the idea that Jordan is better than LeBron now but that switches once LeBron is the all-time scoring leader or that the scoring leader becomes some definitive proof that LeBron is better is silly, because it is ultimately an arbitrary number. LeBron has longevity in his corner for the debate already, just tacking on a few hundred more points doesn't make it any more compelling of an argument.
But the same thing can be said about winning more rings. How many times have we seen the argument of "if LeBron won this many more rings, he'd be the GOAT"? We seem to pick and choose whatever narrative we want to believe would put LeBron in that undisputed top spot, but the fact of the matter is, most of the people who make that claim say so because they know at this point that LeBron catching Jordan in rings is not possible (unless he somehow goes to Cleveland next year without them giving up any players for him).
In regards to whether or not him owning the points record makes the argument more compelling, I guess it depends on what kind of argument you're making. A lot of people tend to factor in career achievements when discussing where someone belongs on the all time great list, and I can certainly buy into that argument. But context is important and sometimes I feel like people fail to use that to fairly judge a player. LeBron's finals record is always going to be used against him in an unfair and unjust matter, simply because there are a good two or three of those finals losses that you can argue (and you'd be correct) aren't LeBron's fault and he shouldn't be blamed for. But the same thing can be said about his insane numbers, more specifically his scoring. A lot of people are going to point out how dominant LeBron was in that regard as he went into the later stage of his career, but ignore that he basically stopped playing defense all together (apart from 2020) after he won the title with Cleveland in 2016.
So I guess it all just comes down to what you're trying to argue. Are you trying to argue that LeBron had a better career overall than Jordan did? Well, Jordan had the six rings, five MVP"s, ten scoring titles, DPOY, steals title, nine first team all defense selections, and he shares the record for career PPG. But then you have LeBron... who will without question retire as the all time leading scorer, the only player in NBA history to have 30k points, 10k assists and 10k rebounds, as well as a few other NBA records that probably won't be broken, four rings, four MVP's (should've won the award in 2018) a scoring title (could be two after this season), an assist title, and six all defensive team selections (and should have been DPOY in 2013 but was infamously robbed of that, he was also robbed of being the first ever unanimous MVP that season). LeBron is also the only player in NBA history to be FMVP on three different teams. If this is the basis we are arguing on, then being the all time leader in scoring definitely matters, especially when you consider what kind of player LeBron is. This is the first season where you could legitimately argue that LeBron is stat padding (an argument I'd agree with). That's insane when you consider how many seasons he's played in the NBA. He's never prioritized scoring except for now and he's on pace to break the scoring record? Yeah, I'm gonna factor that.
But if you're trying to argue which one was just the better player? In that regard, I guess it doesn't really matter if you point out LeBron's scoring record, but what does matter in that case is his longevity. Me personally? I think as players, they're more difficult to judge. Jordan has always been the better two way player but LeBron's ability to impact almost every aspect of the game is superior to Jordan's. I guess it just depends on what you'd rather have in a player. Me? I'd rather have the former, since that's easier to build around. But to each it's own I guess.
