Doc out!!!!!!!!!

[NippySudz]

In one year, Ty Lue coached this team further than Doc did in 7.

We absolutely wasted prime CP3/Blake.

Underachieved wicked. A few of those teams were loaded. Zero conference finals is sad. Really should've had a ring during that time imo.

CP3
Blake
DJ
JJ
Barnes
Crawford
Collison
Baby Davis

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.


Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

I think a conference finals would have bee a fair appearance, but I really do think people overrate cp3 and blake during that tenor. Think of the last few teams that won in seven years. Spurs, Golden State, Cavs, miami and the spurs. I don't think the clippers would have won a championship as a guarantee. I think a conference finals is more definitive than a championship. I don't see the clippers beating miami the way the spurs were able to do and almost did another time.

[MartinToVaught]

People overrate CP3, sure, but they massively underrate Blake. Casual fans forget that at his peak, Blake was top 3 in MVP voting and putting up ridiculous statlines in the playoffs.

A lot of this is because CP3 stans always talked about Blake like he was a glorified Stromile Swift. They needed to spin the narrative that CP3 had no help, otherwise their guy might have started to get some scrutiny for his role in the playoff failures.

[nickhx2]

the team had championship equity, but it was continually squandered by doc. so many moves that were staring the team in the face that never materialized, that easily could have put the team in the driver's seat. forget about the absolute disaster that happened by signing spencer hawes (both cause the player was dog**** and the cap ramifications that caused years worth of damage). you can just start off with his drafting of reggie bullock over rudy gobert when we sorely needed a backup big, or not taking a flier on khris middleton when we sorely needed a defensive-minded SF. not taking the super safe pick in malcolm brogdon when we needed a backup PG (took brice johnson instead) or not going after leandro barbosa/shaun livingston, etc. etc. i mean, a litany of really obvious moves that could have really changed the team's fortunes.

as far as blake/cp3, nah not even remotely overrated. cp3 was a top 5 player for most of his years with the clips, only to be hit by injury after injury. i mean he totally transformed the team. blake, at one point, was literally the best player in the playoffs one year before it all ended. we had two legit superstars even if they had their flaws and limitations. it's sad that they were never able to reach their potential as a team. but that's what happens when the FO makes bad move after bad move.

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

Doc is an absolute clown. He threw Ben under the bus to save himself from criticism. No amount of revisionist history will undo what he said to the media in public.

[Kelphus]

Since we have two posters who have a clinical need to talk about a player who hasn't been here for four years, and a coach you hasn't been the coach for 2 years, I am bumping this thread - now they have a happy home and we can ignore this thread and return to discussing the 2021-2022 season!

[NickP]

Yeah I agree. We should not talk about Doc and his underachieving days with the Clippers or any other team for that matter. It's amazing the level of talent doc has "coached" and that talent does not reflect his achievements as a coach. Yes we should stop talking about this bum who throws his players under the bus the first opportunity he gets. Let's not waste any more time on this guy.

[KL2]

Doc cancelled practice an hour ago and then … the trade finally happened. Nice haul for the Nets.

[MartinToVaught]

Read on Twitter

Every time this guy opens his mouth, some narcissistic delusions come out. If we weren't a "destination" before Doc got here, why did he demand a trade to coach here in the first place?

[TrueLAfan]

Read on Twitter

Every time this guy opens his mouth, some narcissistic delusions come out. If we weren't a "destination" before Doc got here, why did he demand a trade to coach here in the first place?

Pretty sure he demanded the trade so he could have complete control over a team/franchise. But that's a pretty narcissistic move too so, yeah, that.

But Doc is wrong. Doc took over a 56 win team that had CP3 and Blake. So, yeah, I don’t think he “made” the Clippers a destination. The problem was the team owner, not the team. There were signs Sterling was loosening the purse strings by 2013, but not enough to completely counteract his vileness as a human being and his track record as a team owner. Still, if you get CP3 and you’re coming off consecutive playoff years and you’re in a desirable place like Los Angeles … no, Doc, we were doing fine with the “destination” thing before you got here. Doc benefited from the thing that really put us over the top—a deep pocketed, committed owner. He didn’t create the benefit.

But I will say that Doc gave us legitimacy, at least more of it. His arrival and demeanor (like it or not, Doc is popular with lots of players and media) made us more visible. He failed in some significant ways, but he provided a transition between Sterling and Ballmer. He was and is a legitimate guy to be the face of a team, and proven champion. It’s good that he left when he did, and he absolutely did not make us a “destination”—but he was a pretty significant part of that growth from laughing stock to top destination.

[esqtvd]

But I will say that Doc gave us legitimacy, at least more of it. His arrival and demeanor (like it or not, Doc is popular with lots of players and media) made us more visible. He failed in some significant ways, but he provided a transition between Sterling and Ballmer. He was and is a legitimate guy to be the face of a team, and proven champion. It’s good that he left when he did, and he absolutely did not make us a “destination”—but he was a pretty significant part of that growth from laughing stock to top destination.

Yes--Don't go by excerpts and ignorant hatchet jobs . From the ORIGINAL article--Doc is speaking of organizational credibility, not wins and losses. He replaced the entire front office from GM to scouting to sports medicine to nutrition and OVERCAME the Sterling stank:

https://www.inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-doc-rivers-elevates-clippers-from-laughingstock-20220324.html

That was his goal when he became the Clippers coach on June 25, 2013.

“We were the laughingstock,” he said. " ‘No one wanted to play for the Clippers. We heard all of that. If there’s a free-agent war versus the Lakers, don’t try.”

That’s what Rivers was told and he changed that. Not only did he turn the Clippers into a contender, he beat out the Lakers for Kawhi Leonard during the 2019 free-agency period.

“That’s something that I will always be proud of,” Rivers said of the transformation. “The Clippers now are in the NBA, and I feel like I played a major part in that.”

...

“He meant a lot to the organization,” Tobias Harris said. “When I got there, I was like, I’m going to get to play for Doc Rivers. Like seeing Lob City everything. So just that whole thing like his resume as well, it was huge what he brought to the Clippers.”

[MartinToVaught]

We had no organizational credibility when he finally left. We were laughingstocks because of all of his playoff meltdowns.

[og15]

It's not all or nothing. Doc has a big ego, there's no reason for us to debate that, he's not the only person out there like that, but his ego and narcissism is there, it's part of the package.

Doc did a lot of good in building the Clippers post Sterling. Doc also had and still has flaws, and Doc can also still overstate his impact.

Doc from what I've seen will generally lean more towards overstating his impact in success and understating his part and impact in failure.

It is what it is, he's a human, what we need to avoid is acting like he doesn't do this and the other thing to avoid is to act like he does or has done nothing good or everything he does or has done has been good and right, that's living in a place that's not reality.

Also at first I was wondering why this thread popped up, but thanks for keeping this here instead of starting a new thread about Doc.

[esqtvd]

FTR--Pandemic P was the laughingstock of the Bubble. Doc just took the fall.

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

[wco81]

It's not all or nothing. Doc has a big ego, there's no reason for us to debate that, he's not the only person out there like that, but his ego and narcissism is there, it's part of the package.

Doc did a lot of good in building the Clippers post Sterling. Doc also had and still has flaws, and Doc can also still overstate his impact.

Doc from what I've seen will generally lean more towards overstating his impact in success and understating his part and impact in failure.

It is what it is, he's a human, what we need to avoid is acting like he doesn't do this and the other thing to avoid is to act like he does or has done nothing good or everything he does or has done has been good and right, that's living in a place that's not reality.

Also at first I was wondering why this thread popped up, but thanks for keeping this here instead of starting a new thread about Doc.

He's a smart coach.

But I think I posted here awhile back that actually his record compared to Del Negro wasn't that much better, especially in the playoffs.

And he had benefit of better players.

His one championship is because Celtics made some huge trades and Doc had nothing to do with that.


He had the 76ers going pretty well and then Morey probably bungled the team's depth for Harden. Not his fault either.

Though I think it still remained to be seen how long Embid would last playing heavy minutes in the playoffs.

[esqtvd]

It's not all or nothing. Doc has a big ego, there's no reason for us to debate that, he's not the only person out there like that, but his ego and narcissism is there, it's part of the package.

Doc did a lot of good in building the Clippers post Sterling. Doc also had and still has flaws, and Doc can also still overstate his impact.

Doc from what I've seen will generally lean more towards overstating his impact in success and understating his part and impact in failure.

It is what it is, he's a human, what we need to avoid is acting like he doesn't do this and the other thing to avoid is to act like he does or has done nothing good or everything he does or has done has been good and right, that's living in a place that's not reality.

Also at first I was wondering why this thread popped up, but thanks for keeping this here instead of starting a new thread about Doc.

He's a smart coach.

But I think I posted here awhile back that actually his record compared to Del Negro wasn't that much better, especially in the playoffs.

FTR---That veteran Del Negro team tore off an early 17-game winning streak [Nov 28, 2012 - Jan 1, 2013] and then played .500 ball the rest of the way--then got skunked in the first round by the Grizz in 6 games.

The rotation was a complete clusterf***, which is why CP got him fired. [And Vinnie never got another job again.]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-western-conference-first-round-grizzlies-vs-clippers.html

[og15]

It's not all or nothing. Doc has a big ego, there's no reason for us to debate that, he's not the only person out there like that, but his ego and narcissism is there, it's part of the package.

Doc did a lot of good in building the Clippers post Sterling. Doc also had and still has flaws, and Doc can also still overstate his impact.

Doc from what I've seen will generally lean more towards overstating his impact in success and understating his part and impact in failure.

It is what it is, he's a human, what we need to avoid is acting like he doesn't do this and the other thing to avoid is to act like he does or has done nothing good or everything he does or has done has been good and right, that's living in a place that's not reality.

Also at first I was wondering why this thread popped up, but thanks for keeping this here instead of starting a new thread about Doc.

He's a smart coach.

But I think I posted here awhile back that actually his record compared to Del Negro wasn't that much better, especially in the playoffs.

FTR---That veteran Del Negro team tore off an early 17-game winning streak [Nov 28, 2012 - Jan 1, 2013] and then played .500 ball the rest of the way--then got skunked in the first round by the Grizz in 6 games.

The rotation was a complete clusterf***, which is why CP got him fired. [And Vinnie never got another job again.]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-western-conference-first-round-grizzlies-vs-clippers.html

Really wasn't even that bad either. Two 56 win teams, evenly matched, expected 7 game series, those are the types of series' where many times teams win their home games from game 1-6 and game 7 determines the winner. Clippers took care of home, Grizzlies took care of home, then right before going back home, Clippers second best player in Griffin injures his ankle and is hobbled and playing less than a half of basketball each remaining game.

Odom at that point was worse with his drug issues and was a useless backup. Clippers without Griffin were not going to beat a team that was already evenly matched with them with Griffin. So even regardless of VDN's coaching inadequacy, they had a situation where they were likely to lose anyways. They had no answer to the Grizzlies defensively.

[wco81]

My point was, not that VDN was the answer.

Just that Doc wasn't either.

He's now got an MVP candidate and a former MVP on his team. He's not exactly had to deal with a to of rebuilds in his career.

He had the #1 team in the EC playoffs, got past the first round easily but then got upset by the Hawks in the second round.

He's not likely to fare better this year either.

So underwhelming playoffs record with the Clippers, way below expectations compared to some of the regular seasons and last year with the Sixers was similar.

Sixers could still end up the top seed in the east. But they might have been better off not trading for Harden.

[esqtvd]

He's a smart coach.

But I think I posted here awhile back that actually his record compared to Del Negro wasn't that much better, especially in the playoffs.

FTR---That veteran Del Negro team tore off an early 17-game winning streak [Nov 28, 2012 - Jan 1, 2013] and then played .500 ball the rest of the way--then got skunked in the first round by the Grizz in 6 games.

The rotation was a complete clusterf***, which is why CP got him fired. [And Vinnie never got another job again.]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-western-conference-first-round-grizzlies-vs-clippers.html

Really wasn't even that bad either. Two 56 win teams, evenly matched, expected 7 game series, those are the types of series' where many times teams win their home games from game 1-6 and game 7 determines the winner. Clippers took care of home, Grizzlies took care of home, then right before going back home, Clippers second best player in Griffin injures his ankle and is hobbled and playing less than a half of basketball each remaining game.

Odom at that point was worse with his drug issues and was a useless backup. Clippers without Griffin were not going to beat a team that was already evenly matched with them with Griffin. So even regardless of VDN's coaching inadequacy, they had a situation where they were likely to lose anyways. They had no answer to the Grizzlies defensively.

After sneaking up on teams still finding their feet in the early season, they still only played .500 ball in the second half and after dropping 4 in a row--each by 10 points or more--to get booted from the playoffs, CP did get him fired. Perhaps unfairly, but the point here is that Vinnie did not leave a smooth-running machine behind for the next coach to take credit for.

[esqtvd]

My point was, not that VDN was the answer.
Just that Doc wasn't either.

I'm still not convinced that any coach was the answer for the immaturity and selfishness of the Lob City players--especially thrown into the milieu of the worst organization in sports, that of the historically rapacious and perverse Donald T. Sterling.

And please don't make me rehash the Pandemic P humiliation, and Kawhi perpetually showing up late and PG and Kawhi's private dressing room yada yada yada. And Lou going off the COVID reservation for lemon fkn chicken wings at the strip club and Trezz becoming clinically depressed at the death of his grandmother. Doc took the fall for all that--and hey, the org needed to let him be the fall guy--

If PG doesn't re-sign in the fall of 2020, Kawhi doesn't either in 2021, and the org is completely *fked* until like 2027--when Ballmer turns 70.

Doc HAD to go--guilty or not.

_________________________

As a point of order, this rehash of the rehash of the rehashrehashrehash was about Doc was ACTUALLY talking about--his part in making the Clippers org--especially [!] after the collapse of the Lob City dream--an NBA destination.

Kawhi came to Doc's HOUSE! Not Clipper HQ or a hotel room with Ballmer and Lawrence Frank and a bunch of front office suits pitching him with corporate bullsh*it. Doc had remade the entire organization and just fashioned a playoff team out of NOTHING but the ashes of Lob City.

He's right to blow his own horn---nobody else will. Ballmer? lol

[NickP]

Doc is an average coach at best. The litmus test for coaching should be how would Coach (insert name here) do with those Celtics or Clippers teams? Would the Celtics have more than one chip with all that talent? Would they have squandered leads in game 7s?