who can beat the suns?

[bwgood77]

I think we see a finals rematch. The Bucks are better until they get dethroned but the Suns shored up some holes from last year’s roster. I think losing after being up 2-0 has boosted their motivation and focus. The biggest x-factor is Ayton not being a deer in headlights this time around.

The key is after the Bucks were down 2-0 they went big with Giannis, Lopez and Portis all in at once and Ayton had it a lot tougher after a good start in the series and was often in foul trouble with Kaminsky as the only backup. Now McGee and then Biyombo give the Suns more depth, can keep Ayton a little fresher and out of foul trouble and in spurts can play two bigs at once since Ayton has range and can switch onto the perimeter. The Suns have way more depth too.

As for who CAN beat them, I would rank the teams based on how they are playing right now and playoff upside as the Celtics, Bucks, Warriors (if healthy), Memphis (they could be very tough), then Miami.

Then if the Clippers were healthy with Kawhi and George, the Nuggets healthy they could and if the Nets got healthy them, but those are all longer shots.

Suns are probably favorites against any one team but not against the field of course.

[DirtyDez]

There is a very real chance that the Suns will play either the Clips or the Lakers in the first round. Obviously, the Suns will be heavy favorites, but I would never bet against LBJ in playoff mode (possibly with AD) and also never bet against the Clips with PG back and also maybe Kawhi. In those situations, the Suns don't really match up well against either team.

The problem with the Suns is that Booker can wilt under pressure and CP3 is not always a solid scorer at the playoff level. Certainly, the Lakers with a healthy LBJ and AD would be able to push the Suns to the limits if they play close to their potential.

Book was playing great in his first postseason until Beverly broke his nose. I have zero doubt in his ability going into his second run.

I know Bill Simmons and Kevin O’Connor can talk about Kawhi/PG what-if’s for hours but I’ll worry about them once it’s announced they’re back. Same with AD.

[bwgood77]

As a Suns fan who've watched every single game since leaguepass became available in my country, this current Suns team's biggest weakness is when teams decide to let Booker isolate and try to score every possession. That was a high risk in the past, medium risk last season and this season... its low risk because Monty will yank Booker out accordingly or run plays for Mikal to front face and score. Mikal is having his best season so far and has become a 20 point threat every night.

If teams figure out a way to make Booker isolate more again, then Suns system will crumble because Suns strength is sharing the ball and having 4 players who can score 20+ with enough shots.... efficiently.

Yeah, Booker will have some extremely efficient games like last night where he scores a ton, but Ayton, Cam Johnson and Bridges all have elite efficiency (Ayton 67% TS%, Cam 65% TS%, Bridges 63% TS%, Booker 57% TS%) so if they each can get 10+ shots with Booker maybe high teens instead of each with 5-8 shots and Book with like 25 they are typically a much tougher cover and more efficient. Booker will have his huge efficient games but he can also at time shoot them out of them.

I will say he has gotten a lot better at looking for others, even sometimes when hot, and making the smart play where they get a smarter shot, but not always and his defense has improved tremendously.

[carrrnuttt]

Cute. This is no indication of the matchup heavy style of playoff play.

How often do teams win titles without a top 10 player?

Don't know who's going to win it all this year, but I feel WAY more confident saying it won't be the Suns than it will be.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

That's nice.

I was responding to the "transcendence" post. With factual numbers that shows the Suns are setting MULTIPLE historical marks and trendlines in the NBA, which is the DEFINITION of transcendence.

The rest of it, I'm going to let play out, since historical marks doesn't do jack nothing for performance and means even less than jack nothing if they don't win it all.

It's the same for your assessment about history and "top ten players." Which is BS btw, since the only reason Booker, Paul and Ayton don't stick out as much as other players you'd consider a "top ten" star on whatever team, is because this Suns team relies on consistency across the board for their steadiness. It doesn't require any particular person to have to play hero-ball all the time, even though this team still gets them, usually from those three above.

[_qubik]

Heat, Nets, Bucks and Sixers, in my opinion any team coming out of the East can win against the Suns

[Pachinko_]

DeAndre Ayton has taken a fairly large step this year, both on offense and defense - which people will discount because they don't watch the Suns.

And they've added Javale McGee and Biyombo as backup bigs so they don't get destroyed in the paint when Ayton has to go rest or gets in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Milwaukee all they could handle in Milwaukee a few weeks ago without BOTH CP3 and Booker, and just absolutely destroyed the Bucks in Phoenix with both teams semi-healthy.

To say Phoenix has ZERO advantage against Milwaukee is fairly asinine.

EDIT: Just double checked both games, Deandre Ayton thoroughly outplayed GIannis in both games this year, and it wasn't close - Ayton himself has said that the Finals struggles he had has been his driving motivation.

You swept us last year in the regular season too.

Look, the Bucks were doing in 2019 and in 2020 what the Suns are doing right now, they finished with the best record in the League. Did it matter? No. They lost. Since then they've stopped chasing regular season records, they use the RS to rest and rehabilitate players and try all sorts of different schemes and rotations. Result? They won.

They POs start soon. Forget the regular season, it doesn't matter. And forget the Biyombos of this world, the starters will play until the wheels fall off.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Suns are fkn incredible team, it's like playing against a basketball robot that always makes the best decision. But if we play again it will come down to the same thing as last year: has Monty found a better way to defend Giannis or not. I don't know how many years it will take for the league to understand: pick the best defender you want from the whole world and put him on Giannis one on one. Pick Ayton, Hakeem Olajuwon, whatever, it-just-doesn't-work. You need to build a wall.

[falcolombardi]

DeAndre Ayton has taken a fairly large step this year, both on offense and defense - which people will discount because they don't watch the Suns.

And they've added Javale McGee and Biyombo as backup bigs so they don't get destroyed in the paint when Ayton has to go rest or gets in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Milwaukee all they could handle in Milwaukee a few weeks ago without BOTH CP3 and Booker, and just absolutely destroyed the Bucks in Phoenix with both teams semi-healthy.

To say Phoenix has ZERO advantage against Milwaukee is fairly asinine.

EDIT: Just double checked both games, Deandre Ayton thoroughly outplayed GIannis in both games this year, and it wasn't close - Ayton himself has said that the Finals struggles he had has been his driving motivation.

You swept us last year in the regular season too.

Look, the Bucks were doing in 2019 and in 2020 what the Suns are doing right now, they finished with the best record in the League. Did it matter? No. They lost. Since then they've stopped chasing regular season records, they use the RS to rest and rehabilitate players and try all sorts of different schemes and rotations. Result? They won.

They POs start soon. Forget the regular season, it doesn't matter. And forget the Biyombos of this world, the starters will play until the wheels fall off.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Suns are fkn incredible team, it's like playing against a basketball robot that always makes the best decision. But if we play again it will come down to the same thing as last year: has Monty found a better way to defend Giannis or not. I don't how many years it will take for the league to understand: pick the best defender you want from the whole world and put him on Giannis one on one. Pick Ayton, Hakeem Olajuwon, whatever, it-just-doesn't-work. You need to build a wall.

i wonder how often the best regular season team wins the championship? i would expect less than half the time at that, maybe a third of the time or somethingh like that

[Pachinko_]

i wonder how often the best regular season team wins the championship? i would expect less than half the time at that, maybe a third of the time or somethingh like that

No there's a strong correlation historically, but this is definitely an outlier year. We've never seen so many legit all stars disappear and reappear randomly for such long stretches, or teams going up and down in the standings like a roller coaster (mainly in the East). It makes it very hard to take anything away from this regular season.

[IamBBAnalysis]

DeAndre Ayton has taken a fairly large step this year, both on offense and defense - which people will discount because they don't watch the Suns.

And they've added Javale McGee and Biyombo as backup bigs so they don't get destroyed in the paint when Ayton has to go rest or gets in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Milwaukee all they could handle in Milwaukee a few weeks ago without BOTH CP3 and Booker, and just absolutely destroyed the Bucks in Phoenix with both teams semi-healthy.

To say Phoenix has ZERO advantage against Milwaukee is fairly asinine.

EDIT: Just double checked both games, Deandre Ayton thoroughly outplayed GIannis in both games this year, and it wasn't close - Ayton himself has said that the Finals struggles he had has been his driving motivation.

You swept us last year in the regular season too.

Look, the Bucks were doing in 2019 and in 2020 what the Suns are doing right now, they finished with the best record in the League. Did it matter? No. They lost. Since then they've stopped chasing regular season records, they use the RS to rest and rehabilitate players and try all sorts of different schemes and rotations. Result? They won.

They POs start soon. Forget the regular season, it doesn't matter. And forget the Biyombos of this world, the starters will play until the wheels fall off.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Suns are fkn incredible team, it's like playing against a basketball robot that always makes the best decision. But if we play again it will come down to the same thing as last year: has Monty found a better way to defend Giannis or not. I don't know how many years it will take for the league to understand: pick the best defender you want from the whole world and put him on Giannis one on one. Pick Ayton, Hakeem Olajuwon, whatever, it-just-doesn't-work. You need to build a wall.

I couldn't believe Williams didn't alter the defense drastically when things were not working. It was unbelievably frustrating.

[IamBBAnalysis]

i wonder how often the best regular season team wins the championship? i would expect less than half the time at that, maybe a third of the time or somethingh like that

No there's a strong correlation historically, but this is definitely an outlier year. We've never seen so many legit all stars disappear and reappear randomly for such long stretches, or teams going up and down in the standings like a roller coaster (mainly in the East). It makes it very hard to take anything away from this regular season.

It is interesting though that the Suns have also had a good deal of injuries, including one injury to a player that was considered an mvp candidate before going down...and they are still on a pace for 65 wins.

[Hitachi77]

If the Bucks got to face the Nets with only KD, and the Hawks, in 2019, they very likely make the finals too. Let's not get so results oriented.

Odds and luck play a factor, that's why you can get the Suns at +330 to win the title, with the next team, the Nets, almost doubling those odds.

I get that looking at odds makes things much less fun, but it's reality, and making sweeping generalizations based on a team losing as a slight favorite, for example, is annoying.

[Pachinko_]

It is interesting though that the Suns have also had a good deal of injuries, including one injury to a player that was considered an mvp candidate before going down...and they are still on a pace for 65 wins.

Or maybe they just put him in bubble wrap, which is the smart thing to do.

[Slim Charlez]

Don't see anyone in the west that can beat them, in the east Milwaukee, a healthy Nets and maybe the Sixers. Should be the favorites to win it all seeing how well they've played this season.

[bwgood77]

DeAndre Ayton has taken a fairly large step this year, both on offense and defense - which people will discount because they don't watch the Suns.

And they've added Javale McGee and Biyombo as backup bigs so they don't get destroyed in the paint when Ayton has to go rest or gets in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Milwaukee all they could handle in Milwaukee a few weeks ago without BOTH CP3 and Booker, and just absolutely destroyed the Bucks in Phoenix with both teams semi-healthy.

To say Phoenix has ZERO advantage against Milwaukee is fairly asinine.

EDIT: Just double checked both games, Deandre Ayton thoroughly outplayed GIannis in both games this year, and it wasn't close - Ayton himself has said that the Finals struggles he had has been his driving motivation.

You swept us last year in the regular season too.

Look, the Bucks were doing in 2019 and in 2020 what the Suns are doing right now, they finished with the best record in the League. Did it matter? No. They lost. Since then they've stopped chasing regular season records, they use the RS to rest and rehabilitate players and try all sorts of different schemes and rotations. Result? They won.

They POs start soon. Forget the regular season, it doesn't matter. And forget the Biyombos of this world, the starters will play until the wheels fall off.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Suns are fkn incredible team, it's like playing against a basketball robot that always makes the best decision. But if we play again it will come down to the same thing as last year: has Monty found a better way to defend Giannis or not. I don't know how many years it will take for the league to understand: pick the best defender you want from the whole world and put him on Giannis one on one. Pick Ayton, Hakeem Olajuwon, whatever, it-just-doesn't-work. You need to build a wall.

Even with that, the Suns looked in control early until the Bucks adjusted, and games 4 and 4 came down to the last couple plays and could have gone either way...either one of those games going the other way could have tipped the series. Then game 6 Giannis with Giannis' 50 pts he needed to get to the line 19 times and somehow make 17 of them (90%) from the line for them to squeeze out the clincher.

It's not like this series wasn't very close. And Biyombo probably won't play much, and yes, it comes down to how much the best players play but they get killed when Ayton was not on the floor with no resistance at all at the rim...McGee and Biyombo in there from 10-15 minutes when Ayton sits instead of Frank Kaminsky or Torrey Craig playing C could be the difference in 4-7 pts not only in those minutes but Ayton being fresher and not playing as tentatively worried about fouls...and 4-7 pts was the margin in each of the last 3 games.

But another big thing is Ayton, Bridges and Cam Johnson are a lot better than they were last year and that was their first playoffs ever, and Booker's defense has improved, where they now don't really have a weak spot defensively in the starting lineup for teams to exploit.

[RoyceDa59]

Nets & Bucks have a chance.

Suns likely coming out of the West.

[Slim Charless]

i wonder how often the best regular season team wins the championship? i would expect less than half the time at that, maybe a third of the time or somethingh like that

No there's a strong correlation historically, but this is definitely an outlier year. We've never seen so many legit all stars disappear and reappear randomly for such long stretches, or teams going up and down in the standings like a roller coaster (mainly in the East). It makes it very hard to take anything away from this regular season.

It is interesting though that the Suns have also had a good deal of injuries, including one injury to a player that was considered an mvp candidate before going down...and they are still on a pace for 65 wins.

It blows my mind that this isn't mentioned more. CP3 was considered a fringe MVP candidate and a sure fire 1st or 2nd team all NBA guy before he went down. With Steph's struggles he would've made 1st team most like had he stayed healthy.

Despite that and losing his backup for many games, the Suns have performed. Including going into MIL and almost beating them-fully healthy essentially for them with their 3rd string point and missing Cam Johnson as well. Lol.... I'm not sure what I'm missing here...

Oh well, playoffs start soon enough.

[syrus3]

The correct answer is Chris Paul. He always finds a way not to win the title. I want to see someone in the West take them out. It will not be the Lakers.

[Hsker4Life]

Multiple teams can beat them, but it sure as heck won’t be easy. No team in the playoffs want to face a healthy Suns team.

[pj0tr]

DeAndre Ayton has taken a fairly large step this year, both on offense and defense - which people will discount because they don't watch the Suns.

And they've added Javale McGee and Biyombo as backup bigs so they don't get destroyed in the paint when Ayton has to go rest or gets in foul trouble.

The Suns gave Milwaukee all they could handle in Milwaukee a few weeks ago without BOTH CP3 and Booker, and just absolutely destroyed the Bucks in Phoenix with both teams semi-healthy.

To say Phoenix has ZERO advantage against Milwaukee is fairly asinine.

EDIT: Just double checked both games, Deandre Ayton thoroughly outplayed GIannis in both games this year, and it wasn't close - Ayton himself has said that the Finals struggles he had has been his driving motivation.

You swept us last year in the regular season too.

Look, the Bucks were doing in 2019 and in 2020 what the Suns are doing right now, they finished with the best record in the League. Did it matter? No. They lost. Since then they've stopped chasing regular season records, they use the RS to rest and rehabilitate players and try all sorts of different schemes and rotations. Result? They won.

They POs start soon. Forget the regular season, it doesn't matter. And forget the Biyombos of this world, the starters will play until the wheels fall off.

Don't get me wrong, I reckon the Suns are fkn incredible team, it's like playing against a basketball robot that always makes the best decision. But if we play again it will come down to the same thing as last year: has Monty found a better way to defend Giannis or not. I don't know how many years it will take for the league to understand: pick the best defender you want from the whole world and put him on Giannis one on one. Pick Ayton, Hakeem Olajuwon, whatever, it-just-doesn't-work. You need to build a wall.

Well, I guess the Suns should just pack it up and go home, because nothing has changed then.

The Bucks beat the Suns last year, and because they beat the Suns last year, that means they will beat them this year.

[dribble1614]

Heat, Nets, Bucks and Sixers, in my opinion any team coming out of the East can win against the Suns

heat have a better chance of getting waxed in the 1st round than they do of even getting to the finals with the opportunity to meet the suns, let alone actually beat them.