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Gimli wrote:spanishninja wrote:pj0tr wrote:
This is the post of someone who hasn't watched the Suns in the past 2 years. Just absolutely lazy analysis that is just flat out wrong about the Suns offense.
yeah lol. simple google can tell you that Phoenix is #4 in PITP
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/points-in-paint-per-game
Buddy, points in the paint don't equal how well a team plays in the post.
Wallace_Wallace wrote:Gimli wrote:spanishninja wrote:
the Mavs shoot almost 6 more 3s a game compared to the Suns. the question is what happens when DALLAS isn't making threes.
Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.
Damn, you sound pretty convinced. Your whole strategy is throw the ball to Doncic and get out of the way? And your alternate strategy is to outrun the Suns?
I suppose it could work, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Gimli wrote:pj0tr wrote:SkyBill40 wrote:
Agreed. That post is chock full of willful ignorance. Clearly the poster isn't paying attention to warrant some kind of exhaustive overview, even as flawed as this happens to be.
"What happens when the Suns go cold from 3..." I mean... how lazy can you get?
The Suns are 26th in the league in 3 point attempts, but are 4th best in 3 point FG%Their offense is not reliant on 3s.
Just read that dude's posts. 7 posts, and almost all of them are about how Dallas will "surprise" Phoenix, with analysis that makes zero sense.
Yeah, I've watched the game against Philly...just passing the ball all the time, making a bunch of threes and Booker making a layup or too. That's not getting to the basket gameplan. I guess suns should know what it means to have a player going at the basket all the time or when necessary, after all, the Bucks made a back door sweep to them, with Giannis making the most damage from attacking the paint, but I guess it just went past them. Or maybe they're just too sensitive.
Just deal with, CP3 is a midrange jump shooter, Booker couldn't do anything in the past few years before the bubble, and for Ayton some suns fans people were even questioning if he isn't too expensive to extend. Ayton is a finesse player, not somehow who can bang down low.
The suns make a bunch of layups due to their good offense of passing all the time. But since I've listed all the previous champions, you need someone who can go to the basket 1 vs 1 in the crunch time. Suns have no one like that. Just like the Hawks didn't in their great season, as far as I can remember.
Suns win majority of their games by just playing very good offense and very good defense for 48 minutes, without making any mistakes. That led you to 2-0 lead against the Bucks, until they figured you out and then you lost 4-0. And which of the great teams did you even beat? None. Grizzlies 4-1 was easy, Jazz 4-2 should be 4-1, Clippers vs Suns should be 4-1 or 4-0. And they you faced the only partially great team and you got backdoor swept. And now you're crying why you're labeled you a good team.
Booker still hasn't proven that his some great player, he's reputation from few years ago that he can't get phx anywhere is still very much relevant.
spanishninja wrote:Gimli wrote:spanishninja wrote:
yeah lol. simple google can tell you that Phoenix is #4 in PITP
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/points-in-paint-per-game
Buddy, points in the paint don't equal how well a team plays in the post.
you said the suns are a jump shooting team. the PITP stat means that is wrong.
Daredevilish wrote:Yeah, I have to agree, the team that plays “very good offense” and “very good defense” for 48 minutes “without making mistakes” every night sure sounds like an easily exploitable fraud with an obvious weakness that somehow only the geniuses of the general board are capable of identifying.
SweaterBae wrote:It's the perfect trade when nobody is happy.
Gimli wrote:spanishninja wrote:Gimli wrote:
Buddy, points in the paint don't equal how well a team plays in the post.
you said the suns are a jump shooting team. the PITP stat means that is wrong.
They are a jump shooting team in the sense that they move the ball very well and can get the shot anywhere they want... As long as there's ball movement. They do not have anyone that can attack the paint when all hell breaks loose and they desperately need some points to stop the other team's momentum, for example. Majority of Booker's points come from shooting threes, imo, there are way too many points from CP3 being made shooting midrange jumpers over taller people and Ayton also like to shoot jumpers instead of attacking the paint. None of their big 3 can attack the paint against Embiid, for example. Or giannis.
When another team makes a run at Lebron, he can be agressive and go to the rim. Durant can go to midrange and just shoot over other people, he's way too good to be stopped. Kawhi can bully his way inside. Giannis will go full steam to the basket. Embiid can bulldoze his way to the free throw lines. What can the suns do? They'll pray CP3 hits a jumper over a bigger guy or they'll try to do some passing over 24 seconds when the rotationals' players hands will be shaking and their morale will be very low. Good luck with that.
SF_Warriors wrote:Gimli wrote:pj0tr wrote:
"What happens when the Suns go cold from 3..." I mean... how lazy can you get?
The Suns are 26th in the league in 3 point attempts, but are 4th best in 3 point FG%
Just read that dude's posts. 7 posts, and almost all of them are about how Dallas will "surprise" Phoenix, with analysis that makes zero sense.
Yeah, I've watched the game against Philly...just passing the ball all the time, making a bunch of threes and Booker making a layup or too. That's not getting to the basket gameplan. I guess suns should know what it means to have a player going at the basket all the time or when necessary, after all, the Bucks made a back door sweep to them, with Giannis making the most damage from attacking the paint, but I guess it just went past them. Or maybe they're just too sensitive.
Just deal with, CP3 is a midrange jump shooter, Booker couldn't do anything in the past few years before the bubble, and for Ayton some suns fans people were even questioning if he isn't too expensive to extend. Ayton is a finesse player, not somehow who can bang down low.
The suns make a bunch of layups due to their good offense of passing all the time. But since I've listed all the previous champions, you need someone who can go to the basket 1 vs 1 in the crunch time. Suns have no one like that. Just like the Hawks didn't in their great season, as far as I can remember.
Suns win majority of their games by just playing very good offense and very good defense for 48 minutes, without making any mistakes. That led you to 2-0 lead against the Bucks, until they figured you out and then you lost 4-0. And which of the great teams did you even beat? None. Grizzlies 4-1 was easy, Jazz 4-2 should be 4-1, Clippers vs Suns should be 4-1 or 4-0. And they you faced the only partially great team and you got backdoor swept. And now you're crying why you're labeled you a good team.
Booker still hasn't proven that his some great player, he's reputation from few years ago that he can't get phx anywhere is still very much relevant.
You not thinking booker is a great player is a testament to how little you understand about basketball.
SweaterBae wrote:It's the perfect trade when nobody is happy.
Daredevilish wrote:Yeah, I have to agree, the team that plays “very good offense” and “very good defense” for 48 minutes “without making mistakes” every night sure sounds like an easily exploitable fraud with an obvious weakness that somehow only the geniuses of the general board are capable of identifying.
Gimli wrote:SF_Warriors wrote:Gimli wrote:
Yeah, I've watched the game against Philly...just passing the ball all the time, making a bunch of threes and Booker making a layup or too. That's not getting to the basket gameplan. I guess suns should know what it means to have a player going at the basket all the time or when necessary, after all, the Bucks made a back door sweep to them, with Giannis making the most damage from attacking the paint, but I guess it just went past them. Or maybe they're just too sensitive.
Just deal with, CP3 is a midrange jump shooter, Booker couldn't do anything in the past few years before the bubble, and for Ayton some suns fans people were even questioning if he isn't too expensive to extend. Ayton is a finesse player, not somehow who can bang down low.
The suns make a bunch of layups due to their good offense of passing all the time. But since I've listed all the previous champions, you need someone who can go to the basket 1 vs 1 in the crunch time. Suns have no one like that. Just like the Hawks didn't in their great season, as far as I can remember.
Suns win majority of their games by just playing very good offense and very good defense for 48 minutes, without making any mistakes. That led you to 2-0 lead against the Bucks, until they figured you out and then you lost 4-0. And which of the great teams did you even beat? None. Grizzlies 4-1 was easy, Jazz 4-2 should be 4-1, Clippers vs Suns should be 4-1 or 4-0. And they you faced the only partially great team and you got backdoor swept. And now you're crying why you're labeled you a good team.
Booker still hasn't proven that his some great player, he's reputation from few years ago that he can't get phx anywhere is still very much relevant.
You not thinking booker is a great player is a testament to how little you understand about basketball.
Booker's accomplishments.
3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)
He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?
No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.
Pachinko_ wrote:Vampirate wrote:I'm just more annoyed that Suns fans are using the 2014 Spurs and the 2004 Pistons as examples of how they can win it when in reality non of the 3 teams are close to each other.
The Pistons had probably the best defender of all time and the best defense of all time.
The Spurs had the best Coach and (while not in his prime) the best PF of all time and had won before.
Both teams went up against Basically super teams with All Time greats and won. It's why the comparisons between this Suns team and those championship teams shouldn't be made.
The Suns have one of the best but aging PG of all time, like Tim Duncan on that Spurs team, however the rest of the team doesn't have the quality of that Spurs team.
I think the common denominator between those 3 teams, and what makes them an outlier, is that they scored by committee much more than any other NBA Champion. They didn't have a dedicated go-to 30ppg machine like a KD/Steph/Kobe etc.
Monty is not Pop, but nobody is until they become, you know what I mean? And you become by winning in the playoffs. So I agree the moment of truth is not behind us in the regular season but ahead of us in the next 3 months.
Vampirate wrote:Pachinko_ wrote:Vampirate wrote:I'm just more annoyed that Suns fans are using the 2014 Spurs and the 2004 Pistons as examples of how they can win it when in reality non of the 3 teams are close to each other.
The Pistons had probably the best defender of all time and the best defense of all time.
The Spurs had the best Coach and (while not in his prime) the best PF of all time and had won before.
Both teams went up against Basically super teams with All Time greats and won. It's why the comparisons between this Suns team and those championship teams shouldn't be made.
The Suns have one of the best but aging PG of all time, like Tim Duncan on that Spurs team, however the rest of the team doesn't have the quality of that Spurs team.
I think the common denominator between those 3 teams, and what makes them an outlier, is that they scored by committee much more than any other NBA Champion. They didn't have a dedicated go-to 30ppg machine like a KD/Steph/Kobe etc.
Monty is not Pop, but nobody is until they become, you know what I mean? And you become by winning in the playoffs. So I agree the moment of truth is not behind us in the regular season but ahead of us in the next 3 months.
I mean, i'll defend them here, they kind of do.
He's not as good as those players but Booker is scoring 26.5 points per game atm.
The Suns are a machine this year and Booker just doesn't stand out as so much as Steph or KD does, but yeah he's capable of going for 30+ points.
SweaterBae wrote:It's the perfect trade when nobody is happy.
Gimli wrote:spanishninja wrote:pj0tr wrote:
"What happens when the Suns go cold from 3..." I mean... how lazy can you get?
The Suns are 26th in the league in 3 point attempts, but are 4th best in 3 point FG%
Just read that dude's posts. 7 posts, and almost all of them are about how Dallas will "surprise" Phoenix, with analysis that makes zero sense.
the Mavs shoot almost 6 more 3s a game compared to the Suns. the question is what happens when DALLAS isn't making threes.
Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.
SF_Warriors wrote:Gimli wrote:SF_Warriors wrote:
You not thinking booker is a great player is a testament to how little you understand about basketball.
Booker's accomplishments.
3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)
He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?
No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.
He is a perennial all star player that just turned 25, made the finals in his first playoff appearance, is the leading scorer on the team with the best record in the nba. You dont think multiple time all stars that arent even in their prime yet are good players? Booker is literally in the running for best SG in the league.
Gimli wrote:Daredevilish wrote:Yeah, I have to agree, the team that plays “very good offense” and “very good defense” for 48 minutes “without making mistakes” every night sure sounds like an easily exploitable fraud with an obvious weakness that somehow only the geniuses of the general board are capable of identifying.
It's the regular season. Come playoff time, mistakes will happen.
If you think analysing the numbers is some great strategy, check bet365 site. The Jazz had for a long time the 3rd highest chances to win the west, their odds were 7.50... How is it possible that they had higher chances than the Grizzlies, for example? As Chuck or whoever it was said, find me a person who thinks the Jazz will win the championship. And now they have equal chance as the grizzlies...
Grizzlies path: 7seed, mavs probably, phx probably.
Jazz path: GSW, phx probably, from your point of view the Grizzlies.
Grizzlies "only" have to beat phx, Jazz have "only" to beat phx and the Grizzlies. Unless you say the Jazz are equally good team as the Grizzlies.
Gimli wrote:Wallace_Wallace wrote:Gimli wrote:
Dallas has Doncic playing 1 vs 1 to the basket quite a lot of time. Suns have no one of that caliber. There's none that can stop Doncic going to the basket, as long as he has energy. They also have Brunson and Spencer, which if necessary can go to the basket, since teams will always have to watch out for Doncic. They can also run 3pg lineup, with DFS also always being in threat for making a cut.
Damn, you sound pretty convinced. Your whole strategy is throw the ball to Doncic and get out of the way? And your alternate strategy is to outrun the Suns?
I suppose it could work, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Yeah, it's very primitive offense, but that's what the Mavs do basically the entire time. Give the ball to Doncic.
Mavs only have 5 plays, basically.
1) Screen for Doncic.
2) Doncic 1 vs 1.
3) Doncic get's the ball in the lows post.
3) Brunsons 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Brunson shooting himself).
4) Dwinddle 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Dwinddle shooting himself).
It's not a good offense, but that's what mavs run. It's also very difficult to be stopped.
But that's not the point. All I'm saying is suns don't have anyone that could really attack the paint when necessary. Booker hits way too many threes over defender's hands. There will come a time when he stops making them. Or when CP3 won't be able to just shoot over taller defenders. Bucks have Giannis, Clippers have Kawhi, Lakers have Lebron, Philly has Embiid, Miami Adebayo... If you think it's ridiculous, fine, but in the last 20 years each team have some great players who could score in the paint (except I guess Detroit), if the Suns win they'll be the first that won't have anyone. Take that for your "points in the paint stats".
spanishninja wrote:Gimli wrote:Wallace_Wallace wrote:
Damn, you sound pretty convinced. Your whole strategy is throw the ball to Doncic and get out of the way? And your alternate strategy is to outrun the Suns?
I suppose it could work, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Yeah, it's very primitive offense, but that's what the Mavs do basically the entire time. Give the ball to Doncic.
Mavs only have 5 plays, basically.
1) Screen for Doncic.
2) Doncic 1 vs 1.
3) Doncic get's the ball in the lows post.
3) Brunsons 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Brunson shooting himself).
4) Dwinddle 1 vs 1 or screen (usually ends with Dwinddle shooting himself).
It's not a good offense, but that's what mavs run. It's also very difficult to be stopped.
But that's not the point. All I'm saying is suns don't have anyone that could really attack the paint when necessary. Booker hits way too many threes over defender's hands. There will come a time when he stops making them. Or when CP3 won't be able to just shoot over taller defenders. Bucks have Giannis, Clippers have Kawhi, Lakers have Lebron, Philly has Embiid, Miami Adebayo... If you think it's ridiculous, fine, but in the last 20 years each team have some great players who could score in the paint (except I guess Detroit), if the Suns win they'll be the first that won't have anyone. Take that for your "points in the paint stats".
everything bolded is wrong. booker shoots very few 3s, CP3 only shoots when the opposing big is unable to keep up with him (he did this to KP numerous times in the past two seasons for example, maybe that's why you shipped him?), and Phoenix has literally three bigs who can all score in the rim efficiently, led by Ayton and his 80% shooting from 0-3ft.
What the **** are you talking about honestly.
Gimli wrote:SF_Warriors wrote:Gimli wrote:
Booker's accomplishments.
3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)
He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?
No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.
He is a perennial all star player that just turned 25, made the finals in his first playoff appearance, is the leading scorer on the team with the best record in the nba. You dont think multiple time all stars that arent even in their prime yet are good players? Booker is literally in the running for best SG in the league.
Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.
Gimli wrote:SF_Warriors wrote:Gimli wrote:
Booker's accomplishments.
3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (2016)
NBA Three-Point Contest champion (2018)
SEC Sixth Man of the Year (2015)
Second-team All-SEC (2015)
SEC All-Freshmen Team (2015)
McDonald's All-American (2014)
He also wasn't first team for USA this olympics, was he?
No one outside the Suns thinks Booker is some great player all star. Hence why he's not in the MVP discussion, aside from the fact that it's still not clear if he's even better than 37 year old CP3, with a history of choking in the playoffs. But he will eventually have to face superstars and then it matters just how good Booker is and how big of an all star he is.
He is a perennial all star player that just turned 25, made the finals in his first playoff appearance, is the leading scorer on the team with the best record in the nba. You dont think multiple time all stars that arent even in their prime yet are good players? Booker is literally in the running for best SG in the league.
Not good enough. Find me a team that had "lower rated" player in the last 20 years... Maybe the SAS, but their team was one of a kind. And it also matters, because Booker is a skinny SG. Not the best "setup". I mean he's competing with 37 year old CP3 for the best player in the team... Look, in the first few seasons he didn't do anything with the Suns... This doesn't just go away, just because he's got a great team now.