Worst off-season moves?

[Warriors Analyst]

Not the worst, but the Raptors giving Khem Birch a 3 year, 20 million isn't great.

Especially if you consider that financial constraints might have been why they dealt that 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder (and Thad).

In terms of on-court value, not great, but I'm inclined to think that those middle class contracts are good for trade fodder down the line. Miami does a great job of always having a few $5-9 million dollar contracts on their roster that can combine for good value at the deadline.

[flranger]

In the long run, these unnecessary extensions will end up being the worst moves:
08/07/21: Jimmy Butler signs 4/184 extension. Under contract and had player option in 2022/23 where Heat had Bird rights
09/27/21: MPJ signs 5/145 max extension. Under contract and had RFA rights available.

[Time for Change]

09/27/21: MPJ signs 5/145 max extension. Under contract and had RFA rights available.

This is the one. Under contract with questionable health and they maxed him out early anyway, he’s played 9 games for them and his future is uncertain. Players can recover from ankles and knees, but who has recovered from a bad back? We’re not talking Ben Simmons type back soreness, MPJ has had 3 back surgeries. Potentially 5 years of deadweight max salary on the books when trying to build around Jokic.

[K_chile22]

most of the season we thought the Shamet extension was terrible, but given his recent performance it might just be bad.

When you factor in that they traded a first to get him and sign him to a bad contract it remains terrible

[K_chile22]

Thies contact was pretty bad. Got out of it painlessly and it's not a huge amount but still bad

[BuddyBuckets]

Devonte Graham's deal looks bad now. Shame because I was really looking forward to him being our Jordan Clarkson type

[ConSarnit]

It makes for an interesting argument: is it really ever worth paying those types of guys? Half of them are overpaid. Half of them are probably worth their deal. NONE of them are outplaying their deals. No one ever gets anything better than "fair value" (at best) for these guys. It seems like the market needs to re-evaluate what knockdown shooters are worth. If they aren't guys who can play even average defense they almost always become bad deals.

This is how I feel too. These guys almost instantaneously become overpaid as soon as the ink dries. The exception are for guys who show additional skills (THJ and his limited ballhandling, GTJ and his defense + youth, Eric Gordon and his defense, Powell and his slashing ability). The truly one-dimensional guys like Joe Harris, D Rob, Fournier and Markkanen are just a poison pill most of the time.

It's risky to pay any one-dimensional player good $, but this looks mostly like examples of bad contracts who are injured, slumping, or just not that great, and attributing their failure to a player archetype. There aren't that many pure shooters who are well paid at all, and many of those genuinely elite shooters on good teams that need shooting are quite valuable.

The Nets for example would be ecstatic to pay a healthy Joe Harris $16m this year, dude's just injured now. Even in a down shooting year I don't think the Cavs are regretting Markannen either. Even Bertans--a contract a ton of people didn't love at the time--is only a rough deal because he mysteriously starter sucking at shooting after many years of being awesome at it. And many teams right now would happily pay assets and $ to other shooters who aren't slumping or injured, such as Trent Jr, Seth Curry, D Graham, Bojan, etc. (Also some your examples look shoe-horned in to make the point: Fournier isn't a one-dimensional shooter, he's a ball-handling creator who was generally only scoring like 1/3 of his pts on 3s on the Magic; and Eric Gordon is obviously not a stand-out defender these days).

Guess I could agree that it might be a little riskier than normal to give a shooter $15m+ because shooting varies so much year to year, but it's usually clear and logical why teams are offering that and the risk makes sense. And it usually only looks bad if the player disappoints, like most FA signigns.

I think as another poster said, some of these deals look better in context. If you already have your team filled out (ex. BKN) then paying Harris is fine because you have a) no real way to replace him if he walks and b) the owner is willing to spend. When you bring these guys in as FA or on a just "ok" team they become a lot more damaging.

If your team already has stars and your owner has deep pockets then great, you can afford to overpay these guys.

It also seems like a good rule of thumb is if the guy has defensive questions don't go above the MLE-ish range (Curry, Graham).

[DaddyCool19]

MPJ's contract for sure. I wonder if anyone would've even offered him a 4 year full guaranteed deal after this season. He had a terrible start, has concerning injury issues and has only played 1,5 seasons worth of basketball in 4 seasons. They could probably kept him for way cheaper. Like 10-15M per year less cheaper if no insane team offered him more.

[Harry Garris]

In hindsight what were some of the worst off-season moves of the past year?

I couldn't elieve how badly the Heat overpaid Duncan "D-3PO" Robinson when the extension numbers came out and he sdone nothing to prove this year that he's worth the ridiculous contract he received...

You've always got some creative nicknames, I'll give you that, but 17-19 mil is the going rate for a knockdown volume shooter.

Bogdanovic's, Powell, Harris, Fournier, Hardaway, Eric Gordon, Trent, Bertans, Markkanen all got deals in that range and are all knock down shooters who aren't great at much else. Thats a 1/3rd of the league paying for guys to do that, it can't be looked at as that huge an overpay.

I do not think you can lump all of these guys in together. Some of them are much more than "just" knockdown shooters. Norm Powell for example I wouldn't even call an elite spot up shooter. He's just a great all around scorer that has an off the bounce game too.

Bogdanovic has a much more well rounded offensive game than you're giving him credit for and he can create his own shot. Gary Harris was an elite 3+D wing when he got that contract. Evan Fournier wasn't even really that great of a shooter he's more of a secondary ball handler and offensive initiator, he's fallen into more of just a shooter role on the Knicks. Hardaway was a theoretical 3 and theoretical D player but didn't excel at either. Eric Gordon can make plays for others and attack the rim, he just didn't do it as much playing alongside James Harden. Gary Trent has shown he has a lot more in his bag than just spot up 3 point shooting this year on the Raptors.

That leaves us with Bertans, Markkanen, and Duncan Robinson who stand out as the guys who are just shooters and not much else and all 3 of those guys it turns out are bad contracts.

[Richard4444]

In hindsight what were some of the worst off-season moves of the past year?

I couldn't elieve how badly the Heat overpaid Duncan "D-3PO" Robinson when the extension numbers came out and he sdone nothing to prove this year that he's worth the ridiculous contract he received...

You've always got some creative nicknames, I'll give you that, but 17-19 mil is the going rate for a knockdown volume shooter.

Bogdanovic's, Powell, Harris, Fournier, Hardaway, Eric Gordon, Trent, Bertans, Markkanen all got deals in that range and are all knock down shooters who aren't great at much else. Thats a 1/3rd of the league paying for guys to do that, it can't be looked at as that huge an overpay.

1) Some posters hate pure shooters. I think the same posters that hate 3 ball centric style of game.

2) This year a lot of pure shooters had a bad start to the season. Perhaps, we can blame the new ball for their struggle.

3) You can argue some rookies/GLeagues can deliver an almost similar production for a fraction of the players in this list salaries (like IQ, Duarte, Grimes). But you have to accept rookie mistakes/instability and they will be paid eventually.

4) Norman Powell is 28 years old, 19ppg, 40% 3pt shooter, dynamic (less than 40% of his points are 3s), and a good defender. His contract is very solid.

5) Trent is a 23 years old, 19ppg, 38%shooter, dynamic (less than 50% of his points are 3s), and a solid defender. He should improve and his contract is very good.

6) Bogdan is kind of tall 6'6, 15ppg, dynamic (50% of his points are 3s), solid playmaker (more than 3A/g, but a little overshadowed by Trae). He had a down year shooting only 36% from deep (career 38%, 44% last season). But his contract is not bad.

7) Harry is injured. But he is a career 6"6 45% 3 ball shooter (47% in the last 2 years). It's very hard to get a player with this production. And tall.

8) Evan is a 6'7, 39% 3p shooter. He was a really dynamic player in Orlando. He struggles hard in Thibs scheme.
In Orlando, he used to average 16ppg (almost 20ppg in his last year), 3 assists, less than 40% of his points were 3s. He was not known as a very weak defender (maybe no one watches Orlando games and only sees box scores).
In New York, he averages 14ppg, 2 assists, 64% of his points are 3s. He was exposed as one of the worst defenders of the league by the scheme.
He might deserve his deal by his Orlando production.

9) Gordon can not be on this list because he was not known to be a shooter. He is only a career 37% from deep (although had a good 41% this year). He is already 33 and short (6"3). Only 13ppg this year. Bad contract until 2024.

10) Lauri played as SF most games this season. He has a down year (35%). But he's young and very tall and less than 50% of his points are 3s. It's not easy finding great shooters that are very tall.

[giberish]

09/27/21: MPJ signs 5/145 max extension. Under contract and had RFA rights available.

This is the one. Under contract with questionable health and they maxed him out early anyway, he’s played 9 games for them and his future is uncertain. Players can recover from ankles and knees, but who has recovered from a bad back? We’re not talking Ben Simmons type back soreness, MPJ has had 3 back surgeries. Potentially 5 years of deadweight max salary on the books when trying to build around Jokic.

Yeah, forgot about this one. Even without health issues IMO MPJ wasn't a 'give a 25% max extension to after year 3 guy'. Add in his health risk and it's a horrible contract. This was easily the worst single contract move (though I'd still have the Lakers offseason overall as worse).

I'd have a few other lessor bad moves: Charlotte thinking Plumlee is a starting center solution, Sacramento adding another guard to a guard glut with Barnes as their only forward, Detroit paying to move Plumlee just to sign another backup C to even more money.

And a couple of Cavs moves that I thought were bad but now look good: Paying Allen pretty big, 5 year money and signing Markkenen.

[Time for Change]

MPJ's contract for sure. I wonder if anyone would've even offered him a 4 year full guaranteed deal after this season. He had a terrible start, has concerning injury issues and has only played 1,5 seasons worth of basketball in 4 seasons. They could probably kept him for way cheaper. Like 10-15M per year less cheaper if no insane team offered him more.

It was only 10 years ago when Stephen Curry signed a small 4/$43m extension because of “suspect ankles” after being much healthier than MPJ, and already the best 3pt shooter in the league. Now unproven guys are getting premature maxes for no reason, and Phoenix gets flack for not maxing Ayton prematurely.

[R-DAWG]

In hindsight what were some of the worst off-season moves of the past year?

I couldn't elieve how badly the Heat overpaid Duncan "D-3PO" Robinson when the extension numbers came out and he sdone nothing to prove this year that he's worth the ridiculous contract he received...

You've always got some creative nicknames, I'll give you that, but 17-19 mil is the going rate for a knockdown volume shooter.

Bogdanovic's, Powell, Harris, Fournier, Hardaway, Eric Gordon, Trent, Bertans, Markkanen all got deals in that range and are all knock down shooters who aren't great at much else. Thats a 1/3rd of the league paying for guys to do that, it can't be looked at as that huge an overpay.

I think these contracts fall into the category of market value for what these players are, but those contracts don't represent a good value for the on court production those players bring.

But I don't think it's fair to put Eric Gordon in this category, as he's more than just a volume 3 point shooter. Duncan Robinson, Bertans, Joe Harris, even Fournier and Hardaway fit this category (Fournier and Hardaway can do a little more with the ball but are not as efficient as a result of taking some tougher shots).

[R-DAWG]

The biggest bust deal to me was giving THT 11 mil per season for 3 years. He's young, sure, and 11 million isn't crippling in todays NBA, but he's been absolutely terrible and has regressed in every facet of the game. To get off his deal theyll need to attach an asset (which they dont have) AND to compound things, they ultimately chose him over Alex Caruso who is getting paid less and is a way better fit.

To add insult to injury, THT is a client of Klutch hence the main reason he got paid and was allowed to stay plus Harrell is also a client of said agency resulting in the Lakers trading McGee(a far better fit for Davis)+26 2nd to Cleveland to give him the full MLE.

The crazy thing is they could've done the following:

-Trade for Lowry. The reported deal was gonna be KCP+Schroeder(he was gone the second turned down the 84M)+THT. That was the reported deal and the fact they didn't make said deal for him was stupid in retrospect as Lowry would've been a far better fit for this Lakers squad than Russ. They could've used him to lure in Derozan via a S&T where they'd use Kuzma+Gasol+21 1st+future 2nd in exchange for Demar while keeping Caruso and filling out the roster with a mix of young+old players.
-Plus a little fun bit, Delon Wright, Kyle Kuzma and Jakob Poeltl were all teammates at Utah in the 14-15 season so it'd be a nice reunion for the last 2 guys to come together in San Antonio.

Instead they gave up a lot and ended up with Russ who with all due respect is cooked. Either way the Lakers under the LBJ era had a short shelf life and they got what they wanted which was a title out of it. There are other moves out there that look brutal:

-Schroeder turning down 84M only to settle for 5.8M with Boston and then getting traded has to be the worse off-season move in itself(personally).

-Utah getting punked into giving up a 24 1st+28 2nd to OKC to get out of Favors and Miye Oni's deal to save tax money was brutal and then they proceeded to give up the 27 2nd from OKC to San Antonio to get Juancho and NAW after Ingles got hurt. If it was possible, they should've stepped into the Russ trade and simply given said draft capital to the Wizards for Kuzma and KCP who would've been ideal fits for the Jazz who badly needed help on perimeter defense after getting killed by the Clippers with no Kawhi.
Would've been an insane tax bill, but sometimes you gotta go for it.

Let's be clear on one thing, there was no way for the Lakers to keep Lowry and Carusso while acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade - which would trigger the hard cap.

Yes, the Lakers would have been better off making the above referenced Lowry trade last year. And yes, that would have left them with Kuzma/Harrell to flip for Hield. And yes, they would have then been able to retain Carusso, which would have opened them up to using the taxpayer MLE for a different part of the roster (rather than Kendrick Nunn who hasn't played a single minute) and they could have picked Quentin Grimes with their first rd pick, who is a perfect Lebron support player.

Lowry/Carusso/Hield make $58MM this year, while Westbrook plus 2 vet minimum slots combine for $47.5MM. We already know Carusso would have left a few bucks on the table to stay with the Lakers, and Lowry might have done the same. They also could have passed on using the taxpayer MLE, which they spent $5MM on Kendrick Nunn.

So the Westbrook trade was bad, it didn't work out, there were better things the Lakers could have done and remained relatively cash neutral, but acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade wasn't necessarily one of them because of the complications with triggering the hard cap.

[Scalabrine]

In hindsight what were some of the worst off-season moves of the past year?

I couldn't elieve how badly the Heat overpaid Duncan "D-3PO" Robinson when the extension numbers came out and he sdone nothing to prove this year that he's worth the ridiculous contract he received...

You've always got some creative nicknames, I'll give you that, but 17-19 mil is the going rate for a knockdown volume shooter.

Bogdanovic's, Powell, Harris, Fournier, Hardaway, Eric Gordon, Trent, Bertans, Markkanen all got deals in that range and are all knock down shooters who aren't great at much else. Thats a 1/3rd of the league paying for guys to do that, it can't be looked at as that huge an overpay.

I do not think you can lump all of these guys in together. Some of them are much more than "just" knockdown shooters. Norm Powell for example I wouldn't even call an elite spot up shooter. He's just a great all around scorer that has an off the bounce game too.

Bogdanovic has a much more well rounded offensive game than you're giving him credit for and he can create his own shot. Gary Harris was an elite 3+D wing when he got that contract. Evan Fournier wasn't even really that great of a shooter he's more of a secondary ball handler and offensive initiator, he's fallen into more of just a shooter role on the Knicks. Hardaway was a theoretical 3 and theoretical D player but didn't excel at either. Eric Gordon can make plays for others and attack the rim, he just didn't do it as much playing alongside James Harden. Gary Trent has shown he has a lot more in his bag than just spot up 3 point shooting this year on the Raptors.

That leaves us with Bertans, Markkanen, and Duncan Robinson who stand out as the guys who are just shooters and not much else and all 3 of those guys it turns out are bad contracts.

Glad you got Garry Harris in there Harry Garris!

I agree with you that all of those guys in that list do a little more than just spot up shooting so I probably misspoke there. But the exact point Im making still stands, those guys are all similarly talented players, who's main value is as a shooter. They do other things too, which is why they get paid more than guys like Reggie Bullock, Josh Richardson, Danny Green, Jeremy Lamb types.

[Scalabrine]

The biggest bust deal to me was giving THT 11 mil per season for 3 years. He's young, sure, and 11 million isn't crippling in todays NBA, but he's been absolutely terrible and has regressed in every facet of the game. To get off his deal theyll need to attach an asset (which they dont have) AND to compound things, they ultimately chose him over Alex Caruso who is getting paid less and is a way better fit.

To add insult to injury, THT is a client of Klutch hence the main reason he got paid and was allowed to stay plus Harrell is also a client of said agency resulting in the Lakers trading McGee(a far better fit for Davis)+26 2nd to Cleveland to give him the full MLE.

The crazy thing is they could've done the following:

-Trade for Lowry. The reported deal was gonna be KCP+Schroeder(he was gone the second turned down the 84M)+THT. That was the reported deal and the fact they didn't make said deal for him was stupid in retrospect as Lowry would've been a far better fit for this Lakers squad than Russ. They could've used him to lure in Derozan via a S&T where they'd use Kuzma+Gasol+21 1st+future 2nd in exchange for Demar while keeping Caruso and filling out the roster with a mix of young+old players.
-Plus a little fun bit, Delon Wright, Kyle Kuzma and Jakob Poeltl were all teammates at Utah in the 14-15 season so it'd be a nice reunion for the last 2 guys to come together in San Antonio.

Instead they gave up a lot and ended up with Russ who with all due respect is cooked. Either way the Lakers under the LBJ era had a short shelf life and they got what they wanted which was a title out of it. There are other moves out there that look brutal:

-Schroeder turning down 84M only to settle for 5.8M with Boston and then getting traded has to be the worse off-season move in itself(personally).

-Utah getting punked into giving up a 24 1st+28 2nd to OKC to get out of Favors and Miye Oni's deal to save tax money was brutal and then they proceeded to give up the 27 2nd from OKC to San Antonio to get Juancho and NAW after Ingles got hurt. If it was possible, they should've stepped into the Russ trade and simply given said draft capital to the Wizards for Kuzma and KCP who would've been ideal fits for the Jazz who badly needed help on perimeter defense after getting killed by the Clippers with no Kawhi.
Would've been an insane tax bill, but sometimes you gotta go for it.

Let's be clear on one thing, there was no way for the Lakers to keep Lowry and Carusso while acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade - which would trigger the hard cap.

Yes, the Lakers would have been better off making the above referenced Lowry trade last year. And yes, that would have left them with Kuzma/Harrell to flip for Hield. And yes, they would have then been able to retain Carusso, which would have opened them up to using the taxpayer MLE for a different part of the roster (rather than Kendrick Nunn who hasn't played a single minute) and they could have picked Quentin Grimes with their first rd pick, who is a perfect Lebron support player.

Lowry/Carusso/Hield make $58MM this year, while Westbrook plus 2 vet minimum slots combine for $47.5MM. We already know Carusso would have left a few bucks on the table to stay with the Lakers, and Lowry might have done the same. They also could have passed on using the taxpayer MLE, which they spent $5MM on Kendrick Nunn.

So the Westbrook trade was bad, it didn't work out, there were better things the Lakers could have done and remained relatively cash neutral, but acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade wasn't necessarily one of them because of the complications with triggering the hard cap.

Great post. Shouldn't you also add THT's 11 million in that equation? As they wouldn't be paying him because he would have gone in the Lowry trade. Instead they kept him and re-signed him INSTEAD of Caruso. That would put them at 58.5 total between him and Russ. Which is almost exactly what Lowry/Hield/Caruso would have costed. Wouldn't they also still have KCP?

I mean damn, hindsight is 20/20 but that is not an 11th seed, even with the injuries they've had.

[R-DAWG]

To add insult to injury, THT is a client of Klutch hence the main reason he got paid and was allowed to stay plus Harrell is also a client of said agency resulting in the Lakers trading McGee(a far better fit for Davis)+26 2nd to Cleveland to give him the full MLE.

The crazy thing is they could've done the following:

-Trade for Lowry. The reported deal was gonna be KCP+Schroeder(he was gone the second turned down the 84M)+THT. That was the reported deal and the fact they didn't make said deal for him was stupid in retrospect as Lowry would've been a far better fit for this Lakers squad than Russ. They could've used him to lure in Derozan via a S&T where they'd use Kuzma+Gasol+21 1st+future 2nd in exchange for Demar while keeping Caruso and filling out the roster with a mix of young+old players.
-Plus a little fun bit, Delon Wright, Kyle Kuzma and Jakob Poeltl were all teammates at Utah in the 14-15 season so it'd be a nice reunion for the last 2 guys to come together in San Antonio.

Instead they gave up a lot and ended up with Russ who with all due respect is cooked. Either way the Lakers under the LBJ era had a short shelf life and they got what they wanted which was a title out of it. There are other moves out there that look brutal:

-Schroeder turning down 84M only to settle for 5.8M with Boston and then getting traded has to be the worse off-season move in itself(personally).

-Utah getting punked into giving up a 24 1st+28 2nd to OKC to get out of Favors and Miye Oni's deal to save tax money was brutal and then they proceeded to give up the 27 2nd from OKC to San Antonio to get Juancho and NAW after Ingles got hurt. If it was possible, they should've stepped into the Russ trade and simply given said draft capital to the Wizards for Kuzma and KCP who would've been ideal fits for the Jazz who badly needed help on perimeter defense after getting killed by the Clippers with no Kawhi.
Would've been an insane tax bill, but sometimes you gotta go for it.

Let's be clear on one thing, there was no way for the Lakers to keep Lowry and Carusso while acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade - which would trigger the hard cap.

Yes, the Lakers would have been better off making the above referenced Lowry trade last year. And yes, that would have left them with Kuzma/Harrell to flip for Hield. And yes, they would have then been able to retain Carusso, which would have opened them up to using the taxpayer MLE for a different part of the roster (rather than Kendrick Nunn who hasn't played a single minute) and they could have picked Quentin Grimes with their first rd pick, who is a perfect Lebron support player.

Lowry/Carusso/Hield make $58MM this year, while Westbrook plus 2 vet minimum slots combine for $47.5MM. We already know Carusso would have left a few bucks on the table to stay with the Lakers, and Lowry might have done the same. They also could have passed on using the taxpayer MLE, which they spent $5MM on Kendrick Nunn.

So the Westbrook trade was bad, it didn't work out, there were better things the Lakers could have done and remained relatively cash neutral, but acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade wasn't necessarily one of them because of the complications with triggering the hard cap.

Great post. Shouldn't you also add THT's 11 million in that equation? As they wouldn't be paying him because he would have gone in the Lowry trade. Instead they kept him and re-signed him INSTEAD of Caruso. That would put them at 58.5 total between him and Russ. Which is almost exactly what Lowry/Hield/Caruso would have costed. Wouldn't they also still have KCP?

I mean damn, hindsight is 20/20 but that is not an 11th seed, even with the injuries they've had.

That's a good point and a miss on my part. Add THT's $9.5MM to the mix and add back a vet min slot and Lowry/Hield/Carusso ($58MM) would only cost a little more than Westbrook/THT/1 Vet Min Guy ($55.3MM). And I assume that the Lakers could have gotten Carusso for $1-2MM less per year than the Bulls did if they would have guaranteed all or part of the 4th year, which would have made it a push financially.

I mean - imagine a starting backcourt of Kyle Lowry and Buddy Hield, with Alex Carusso and Quentin Grimes as your backup guards, and using the taxpayer mid level on a Jeff Green or Rudy Gay for small ball lineups.

[Scalabrine]

Let's be clear on one thing, there was no way for the Lakers to keep Lowry and Carusso while acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade - which would trigger the hard cap.

Yes, the Lakers would have been better off making the above referenced Lowry trade last year. And yes, that would have left them with Kuzma/Harrell to flip for Hield. And yes, they would have then been able to retain Carusso, which would have opened them up to using the taxpayer MLE for a different part of the roster (rather than Kendrick Nunn who hasn't played a single minute) and they could have picked Quentin Grimes with their first rd pick, who is a perfect Lebron support player.

Lowry/Carusso/Hield make $58MM this year, while Westbrook plus 2 vet minimum slots combine for $47.5MM. We already know Carusso would have left a few bucks on the table to stay with the Lakers, and Lowry might have done the same. They also could have passed on using the taxpayer MLE, which they spent $5MM on Kendrick Nunn.

So the Westbrook trade was bad, it didn't work out, there were better things the Lakers could have done and remained relatively cash neutral, but acquiring DeRozan via sign and trade wasn't necessarily one of them because of the complications with triggering the hard cap.

Great post. Shouldn't you also add THT's 11 million in that equation? As they wouldn't be paying him because he would have gone in the Lowry trade. Instead they kept him and re-signed him INSTEAD of Caruso. That would put them at 58.5 total between him and Russ. Which is almost exactly what Lowry/Hield/Caruso would have costed. Wouldn't they also still have KCP?

I mean damn, hindsight is 20/20 but that is not an 11th seed, even with the injuries they've had.

That's a good point and a miss on my part. Add THT's $9.5MM to the mix and add back a vet min slot and Lowry/Hield/Carusso ($58MM) would only cost a little more than Westbrook/THT/1 Vet Min Guy ($55.3MM). And I assume that the Lakers could have gotten Carusso for $1-2MM less per year than the Bulls did if they would have guaranteed all or part of the 4th year, which would have made it a push financially.

I mean - imagine a starting backcourt of Kyle Lowry and Buddy Hield, with Alex Carusso and Quentin Grimes as your backup guards, and using the taxpayer mid level on a Jeff Green or Rudy Gay for small ball lineups.

How would they have gotten Grimes?

[R-DAWG]

Great post. Shouldn't you also add THT's 11 million in that equation? As they wouldn't be paying him because he would have gone in the Lowry trade. Instead they kept him and re-signed him INSTEAD of Caruso. That would put them at 58.5 total between him and Russ. Which is almost exactly what Lowry/Hield/Caruso would have costed. Wouldn't they also still have KCP?

I mean damn, hindsight is 20/20 but that is not an 11th seed, even with the injuries they've had.

That's a good point and a miss on my part. Add THT's $9.5MM to the mix and add back a vet min slot and Lowry/Hield/Carusso ($58MM) would only cost a little more than Westbrook/THT/1 Vet Min Guy ($55.3MM). And I assume that the Lakers could have gotten Carusso for $1-2MM less per year than the Bulls did if they would have guaranteed all or part of the 4th year, which would have made it a push financially.

I mean - imagine a starting backcourt of Kyle Lowry and Buddy Hield, with Alex Carusso and Quentin Grimes as your backup guards, and using the taxpayer mid level on a Jeff Green or Rudy Gay for small ball lineups.

How would they have gotten Grimes?

They traded the 22nd pick in the 2021 draft to Washington as part of the Westbrook trade. In the sequence of events referenced above, and how I recall the rumors, the pick was not included in the Hield trade. Therefore, the Lakers would have kept their pick, #22, while Grimes was picked #25.

Also, on your OP - KCP would have needed to be included in the Lowry trade since the Lakers elected to hard cap themselves in 2020-2021 signing Harrell (a very bad move). Had they not, and utilized their taxpayer MLE to sign a Danny Green replacement while retaining JaVale McGee they would have been able to do the Lowry trade while keeping KCP.

[Lockdown504090]

In hindsight what were some of the worst off-season moves of the past year?

I couldn't elieve how badly the Heat overpaid Duncan "D-3PO" Robinson when the extension numbers came out and he sdone nothing to prove this year that he's worth the ridiculous contract he received...

Duncan's contract is the going rate for his skill set, and only $9,888,000 is guaranteed in 25-26 season, so Miami has a nice bargaining chip, if he continues to produce.

Miami had a productive offseason that has made them a contender again.

Just wait until they have to decide to give Tyler Herro a max or not.

Can't see how the contract comes remotely close to any worst-moves-of-the-season list. Robinson averaged 3.75 3s made per game on 43% from deep the two years before he signed it. He's definitely elite at that and it also didn't really cost the Heat anything since they wouldn't have cap either way in the next couple years. It's not extreme cause for regret that he spent half the season on an extended cold streak, and that the Heat also found some other ways to take up some of his PT. He's been back above 60% TS and 40% from deep the last 3 months.

Not saying it was a great contract or something MIA is happy to have done, but it was more just a guy who had a bad half season after a contract, neither a horrid overpay nor something that really screwed them. Many other teams can't say the same about recent moves.

When i watch him play as well, the opposing teams are giving up a lot in terms of help and energy to slow him down, you can definitely feel his gravity when hes on the floor now, which allows jimmy butler to be as inept as he is on the perimeter.