James Wiseman 2021/2022

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I will take a younger post injury David Robinson, the player that won championships with Duncan but,
Pre injury David Robinson was an alot better version of David Robinson despite getting beaten in the playoffs by the RunTMC Warriors.

Wiseman hoped to be like Robinson. We drafted a version of Wiseman that may have been like Freshman David Robinson. There is no reason to think Freshman David Robison would have done any better than Wiseman did if thrown in to play against pros. Rookie (after 4 years of college in a weak league and an NCAA tournament and 2 years of military service during which he was presumably still working on his game) Rookie Robinson Was dominating pros.

Robinson idolized Ralph Sampson. Robison was was very much like Ralph Sampson but better than Sampson.

[Old_Blue]

Oooph. Now comes news that Penny Hardaway and the University of Memphis are going down as a result of the NCAA investigation that was opened during Wiseman's short stint in college.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/03/26/penny-hardaway-memphis-mens-basketball-ncaa-violations-notice-of-allegations

"Penny Hardaway and the University of Memphis men’s basketball program are facing four Level I and two Level II violations amid a notice of allegations sent to the school by the NCAA last July, according to a report from The Commercial Appeal. The notice of allegations lists seven separate violations in total, per the report.

The investigation began with a review of the eligibility status of former player James Wiseman, who now plays in the NBA for the Warriors. The scope of the investigation expanded into other areas of the Memphis basketball program."

[FNQ]

I cannot wait for the inevitable comp to be made..

[Mob Byers]

Medical staff blew it in my amateur opinion. My laymen's logic tells me he should've stayed out longer and built up his lower body strength. No data on that just a feeling. Hope to see him next year

I cannot wait for the inevitable comp to be made..

Anthony "Magic" Randolph?

[FNQ]

Medical staff blew it in my amateur opinion. My laymen's logic tells me he should've stayed out longer and built up his lower body strength. No data on that just a feeling. Hope to see him next year

I cannot wait for the inevitable comp to be made..

Anthony "Magic" Randolph?

Nah.. the other guy with a meniscus injury

I think its amazing that you guys think medical staffs don't know how to do the most basic of things though. These are the best of the best in sports medicine, and you think they'd miss common sense stuff? If Wiseman's legs werent strong enough to hold up his upper body, why didnt that present itself in the weeks, if not months, of rehab? That's literally what rehab is supposed to do. Did the entire rehab team miss it? The great majority of the time when rehabs fail, its the patient who failed. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense that one individual either pressed too hard, didnt follow the rehab regiment at home, etc etc... than a team of 10-20 people all not knowing medical basics?

[Big J]

Celts docs know what’s up.

[wco81]

Supposedly if they removed the meniscus the recovery is faster.

But worse long-term implications.

[GSWFan1994]

I remember reading a report back when he was playing the G-League, saying he took the time off to build some upper body strength.

Maybe should have taken more time off to get some lower body strength as well.

Nevertheless, I hope Wiseman & the coaching and training staff find a way for him to have a healthy off-season, on the way to a good training camp. Seems like 3 months for rehab & stuff from now till then.

[FNQ]

Supposedly if they removed the meniscus the recovery is faster.

But worse long-term implications.

This is where 'long-term' implications can be misread.

That could mean anywhere from a year to a decade, it could start deteriorating the area around the knee. Removing meniscus is a HUGE deal. Its a last resort kind of thing. No doctor, nor team, would ever advise a 20 year old to do that without it being the only way they can heal.

But thats just it - medical personnel actually care about the person's well-being, a lot of sports fans do not. They dehumanize, while in the same breath, think they understand how the body works. For example, I'm sure someone will reference Time Lord's injury and timeline.. ignorance with confidence, thats all it is

I mean people brought up Ron Artest's meniscectomy, not realizing that basically ended his career. He played just over 1000 NBA minutes after that, and they were brutal. But sure lets do that to our 20 year old big man

[cdubbz]

Anyone think trading Wiseman now is better than betting on his health? Obviously we don’t have the doctors opinions. He could easily have a miraculous turnaround but my biggest red flag has always been he hasn’t shown anything as of yet.

[Old_Blue]

Anyone think trading Wiseman now is better than betting on his health? Obviously we don’t have the doctors opinions. He could easily have a miraculous turnaround but my biggest red flag has always been he hasn’t shown anything as of yet.

The return would be pennies on the dollar. The Warriors are stuck with him.

[Samurai]

Anyone think trading Wiseman now is better than betting on his health? Obviously we don’t have the doctors opinions. He could easily have a miraculous turnaround but my biggest red flag has always been he hasn’t shown anything as of yet.

The opposite actually. You haven't seen him show anything yet? What evidence do you have that other GM's have seen enough from him that they will want to give up assets for him? If you are aware of other GM's that have expressed interest in a viable trade after Wiseman's latest setback, I am confused as to what trade you see as a realistic possibility. My guess is that the interest in trading for Wiseman right now is less than all the 'sizzling' trade offers the Niners are getting for Jimmy G! Not sure how you would envision making a trade now when there is no interest in trading for him until he shows that he is healed and can be counted on to provide valuable minutes. And if that time comes, it would still seem to make more sense for the team to evaluate how valuable those minutes really are and whether or not his ceiling looks good enough that we would be better off keeping him or not.

Just never understood that type of thinking. Just like sitting back and screaming "why haven't the Niners traded Jimmy G yet?" and not understanding that it takes two interested parties to make a trade.

[FNQ]

Anyone think trading Wiseman now is better than betting on his health? Obviously we don’t have the doctors opinions. He could easily have a miraculous turnaround but my biggest red flag has always been he hasn’t shown anything as of yet.

I would trade him if they could get value for him that would help us out now. Truth is, he's a rookie next year. Consider last year his 'college' season that he missed, roughly the same number of games. So he's a 21 year old rookie to us now, but only with 3 years of control. Which is still very valuable, but just not #2 overall pick valuable. So if there's a deal where you can get 2 rotational players who fit exactly what we want, then I'm all for it.

But the truth is, the W's wont make that move. They really do want to have their cake and eat it too, so we have to find fits in FA with minimum deals. OPJ is gone, Nemo is gone, and Kuminga really should not be stepping into the OPJ role, so he's basically a Paschall until he proves otherwise. So we need a backup PF and a backup C, assuming Poole/Moody take the majority of the guard minutes and some of the SF minutes. If we bring back Payton, he absorbs some of the forward minutes too. But if there's a deal where we can get a backup PG and C for Wiseman, I'd do it. I saw an offer on the TT board where we basically wound up with Coby White / CHI 1st.. and if we can turn that into TJ McConnell and one of the Cs in the draft (Williams/Koloko/Oscar T), I'd be good with that

[Nvnervous45]

The point with selling wiseman is that we don't even know what we have with him, so how can we expect a g.m. to give anything of substance for an unknown quantity? It's like the price is right when you can give up what you have for what's behind door number 1 and risk losing what you have for a Hawaiian vacation or it could turn out to be a goat!

[wco81]

Unless he breaks out big next season, they probably extend him with a low offer, like $10-15 million a year for 4 years.

That's similar to the deal that Wendell Carter and JJJ got, didn't they? JJJ had meniscus problems too, supposedly.

So have Robert Williams, which caused him to drop to #27 in the draft.

[FNQ]

Unless he breaks out big next season, they probably extend him with a low offer, like $10-15 million a year for 4 years.

That's similar to the deal that Wendell Carter and JJJ got, didn't they? JJJ had meniscus problems too, supposedly.

So have Robert Williams, which caused him to drop to #27 in the draft.

JJJ signed a 4 year, 105 mil extension
I dont recall Time Lord having a meniscus injury pre-draft. He dropped because of attitude concerns

[Mob Byers]

Medical staff blew it in my amateur opinion. My laymen's logic tells me he should've stayed out longer and built up his lower body strength. No data on that just a feeling. Hope to see him next year

I cannot wait for the inevitable comp to be made..

Anthony "Magic" Randolph?

Nah.. the other guy with a meniscus injury

I think its amazing that you guys think medical staffs don't know how to do the most basic of things though. These are the best of the best in sports medicine, and you think they'd miss common sense stuff? If Wiseman's legs werent strong enough to hold up his upper body, why didnt that present itself in the weeks, if not months, of rehab? That's literally what rehab is supposed to do. Did the entire rehab team miss it? The great majority of the time when rehabs fail, its the patient who failed. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense that one individual either pressed too hard, didnt follow the rehab regiment at home, etc etc... than a team of 10-20 people all not knowing medical basics?

Well sure they know how to do basic things but even doctors are “practicing” medicine. Believing that just bc they are professionals means they don’t overlook or get things wrong is a bit naive. That being said, as I mentioned, that’s my laymens/everyday joe opinion. The truth is probably closer to the middle here or like you said partly on Wiseman himself. There easily could’ve been pressure from the FO to get him on the court this year which influenced the medical staff as well.

[FNQ]

Medical staff blew it in my amateur opinion. My laymen's logic tells me he should've stayed out longer and built up his lower body strength. No data on that just a feeling. Hope to see him next year


Anthony "Magic" Randolph?

Nah.. the other guy with a meniscus injury

I think its amazing that you guys think medical staffs don't know how to do the most basic of things though. These are the best of the best in sports medicine, and you think they'd miss common sense stuff? If Wiseman's legs werent strong enough to hold up his upper body, why didnt that present itself in the weeks, if not months, of rehab? That's literally what rehab is supposed to do. Did the entire rehab team miss it? The great majority of the time when rehabs fail, its the patient who failed. Wouldn't that make a lot more sense that one individual either pressed too hard, didnt follow the rehab regiment at home, etc etc... than a team of 10-20 people all not knowing medical basics?

Well sure they know how to do basic things but even doctors are “practicing” medicine. Believing that just bc they are professionals means they don’t overlook or get things wrong is a bit naive. That being said, as I mentioned, that’s my laymens/everyday joe opinion. The truth is probably closer to the middle here or like you said partly on Wiseman himself. There easily could’ve been pressure from the FO to get him on the court this year which influenced the medical staff as well.

No, not naive. The process involves many medical professionals who are trained/specialized in the field. When it comes to athletes, they are checking every minor detail. A team of doctors give the diagnosis and treatment plan. Then you have a team of rehab specialists who monitor progress and provide a rolling window plan that usually has a 1 month window. If at any time the player feels uncomfortable/pained, the rehab stops, and the reset button is hit.

As for the team pressuring them? Movie bull ****. They can want whatever they want, but in today's medical field, that would be a disaster for the team. Only takes one doctor to blow the whistle and not only would the team be heavily fined, the people who made the call would likely lose their livelihood. Not to mention the doctors/specialists would be risking their own livelihood if they cooperated. Because if the player mentions to his agent that he thinks he's being pushed too hard, and they get an independent 3rd party doctor to agree with them, the wheels come off for everyone.

The actual truth is that you can be fairly certain that either the injury was on the very severe end, which should have been obvious when they immediately declared him out for the season after the injury, or that the rehab program wasnt strictly followed by the patient. There is no middle. Because of all these failsafes, it is practically impossible for a missed diagnosis to happen in sports these days, with the lone exception being a secondary injury that isn't close to the focal area of the 1st. And again, it would take 10-20 people who do this professionally and are so good at it that they have basically worked themselves into these cherry jobs... or it can be the 20 year old who probably has never had to do a severe rehab in his life, and likely pushed too hard or didnt do enough rehab. Because in over 19 of 20 cases where rehab fails for athletes, that's what happens. And its only 19 of 20 because they used data all the way back from the 80s, pre-internet, when information and accountability was a lot more scarce.

[and1GS]

I remember just me and 1 other dude who were saying we should draft LaMelo at #2 and everyone hated on it

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azwfan and and1GS are big backers of the Wiseman train til the end. He's a good piece to build the future around, but not to be placed with a ballclub looking to reload with seasoned veterans and role players, and young, special, nba-ready players who area ready to contribute right away.

I'm honored you take the time to really ponder my stance. But no, I had no preference in that draft. I preferred LaMelo as he seemed more of a home run swing, but I understood the Wiseman side.

James is our player today and I'm realistically reacting to the news as it comes out. I support him because he's our player. Same as I did for Diogu, Udoh and Chris Porter (still holding out hope for him and Jiri Welsch). I could freak out and say we should dump him for potato chips but I don't think that's helpful.

After the close to the season, I feel both him and Wiggins are far more expendable. I would love to bundle them and 1-2 picks for a difference maker. Or them and Poole for something even higher. Pascal has played out of his mind, but someone roughly around that level (with diminished value) would be ideal. It's hard to find what that deal is so have no specific ideas at this time. I actually think Utah would be willing to move on from Gobert, but I really think that might be an awful fit...not seeing a ton of options beyond that.

And on that Gobert note: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10032424-nba-exec-sees-rudy-gobert-as-possible-warriors-trade-target-if-jazz-star-is-shopped for exactly the package we're discussing here, Wiggins and Wiseman.

[Coxy]

azwfan and and1GS are big backers of the Wiseman train til the end. He's a good piece to build the future around, but not to be placed with a ballclub looking to reload with seasoned veterans and role players, and young, special, nba-ready players who area ready to contribute right away.

I'm honored you take the time to really ponder my stance. But no, I had no preference in that draft. I preferred LaMelo as he seemed more of a home run swing, but I understood the Wiseman side.

James is our player today and I'm realistically reacting to the news as it comes out. I support him because he's our player. Same as I did for Diogu, Udoh and Chris Porter (still holding out hope for him and Jiri Welsch). I could freak out and say we should dump him for potato chips but I don't think that's helpful.

After the close to the season, I feel both him and Wiggins are far more expendable. I would love to bundle them and 1-2 picks for a difference maker. Or them and Poole for something even higher. Pascal has played out of his mind, but someone roughly around that level (with diminished value) would be ideal. It's hard to find what that deal is so have no specific ideas at this time. I actually think Utah would be willing to move on from Gobert, but I really think that might be an awful fit...not seeing a ton of options beyond that.

And on that Gobert note: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10032424-nba-exec-sees-rudy-gobert-as-possible-warriors-trade-target-if-jazz-star-is-shopped for exactly the package we're discussing here, Wiggins and Wiseman.

Don’t toy with my heart Andy.