Options to fix the PF hole

[kodo]

If I was the Bulls I would pay attention to the John Collins situation in Atlanta. I think he is the perfect fit. I feel like Chicago will make a deal to upgrade this team down low before the deadline.

I get what you are saying and it isn't the worst choice considering what would "realistically" be available but I do not like John Collins at all. He is to me basically the best version of Marcus Fizer could have been. I just don't think he is meaningful although he can ball. Hawks wanted him gone honestly before the playoffs last year but he was a big part of the run, and he pulled an Austin Chroshere did with Indiana that one post season. Dude can ball I just don't think he moves a needle at all. Thats just my opinion though I have been wrong many times.

You can tell MJ is an old school poster because he expects the kids to get an Austin Croshere reference.

[mmmmmbeeer]

How can we convince SA to let Thad go ahead we pick him up or get another pf? What are some other pf options?

Novel idea, I know, but how about we start Patrick Williams at PF and make sure he gets the most minutes in that position? Crazy idea but sometimes you've got to think outside of the box.

[SpongeWorthy]

.

[PJSteven22]

I know those who react like their hair is on fore think they need to make 7 new moves to solve a nonexistent problem but. They have their PF his name is Patrick Williams. What they need are backups, probably 2 at the 4, 1 at the 3 and one at the 5.

You just saw two good candidates on CLE who are behind more expensive and signed longer term players. Dylan Windler and Dean Wade, both are tall, can run the floor, shoot the 3 ball and at this stage in their careers low cost.

Just like at the deadline I look at guys on teams who appear to have a logjam of similar front court players with none of them standing out of the crowd. PJ Washington in CHA, WASH has a big bunch of guys mostly signed, and if they were to trade Beal they would likely get back 2-3 players plus picks so they'd be even more overloaded. Kuzma they likely keep but Hachimura, Todd, Gill, After a couple of years in the league Avidija could be ready to come on strong, Bryant is an UFA. Mitchell Robinson with NYK. Some of these teams with extra draft picks might decide to move on from some of their veterans to give their rookies the playing time quickly.

I'm looking at players who don't think they have a significant role on a lottery team and would be agreeable to coming to a contender with a defined role off the bench to finish out their contracts and set themselves up for their next one. To me the Bulls mostly need front court players who are shooters. Ball, Caruso, Ayo, PWill and Green are all there on defense, find a defensive center but SF/PF need to be able to shoot whether they're in the game with Vuc, PWil, DeRozan or the defensive guards

When they Bulls start next year with

DeRozan Green
Williams
Vucevic
Lavine White
Ball Caruso Dosunmu

They fill in those holes
Their own FRP, maybe Simonovic a decision on Brown and Bradley. Likely Thompson wants too much money

Done with Thomas, Cook

They'll have DJJ as an expiring they could S&T

I’m sorry to break it to you but Pat ain’t the answer.

[Michael Jackson]

If I was the Bulls I would pay attention to the John Collins situation in Atlanta. I think he is the perfect fit. I feel like Chicago will make a deal to upgrade this team down low before the deadline.

I get what you are saying and it isn't the worst choice considering what would "realistically" be available but I do not like John Collins at all. He is to me basically the best version of Marcus Fizer could have been. I just don't think he is meaningful although he can ball. Hawks wanted him gone honestly before the playoffs last year but he was a big part of the run, and he pulled an Austin Chroshere did with Indiana that one post season. Dude can ball I just don't think he moves a needle at all. Thats just my opinion though I have been wrong many times.

You can tell MJ is an old school poster because he expects the kids to get an Austin Croshere reference.

My grey is showing damnit!

[drosestruts]

There's no great fix right now, but this uber small lineup is simply not working.

Start:
Caruso
LaVine
DeRozan
Jones Jr.
Vucevic

DJJ is our best rebounder per 36 minutes behind Vuc and Thompson, and rebounds are our biggest issue right now. He also provides weak side shot blocking, is a lengthy defender, and provides energy plays on offense.

[GoBlue72391]

I know those who react like their hair is on fore think they need to make 7 new moves to solve a nonexistent problem but. They have their PF his name is Patrick Williams. What they need are backups, probably 2 at the 4, 1 at the 3 and one at the 5.

You've got to be kidding. PWill isn't even rotation caliber at this point, let alone starting caliber.

Nonexistent problem? We literally don't have any PFs on the roster, and of the players we are forced to play at that position, none of them are even close to starting caliber. PF is literally a gaping black hole of despair, and if we had anything resembling competent play from that position we might have been able to weather the storm of losing Lonzo and the ensuing collapse that followed.

The PF issue is a nonexistent problem that overzealous fans made up in their head? Really? This is one of the more ludicrous takes I've seen in quite a while.

[kodo]

FA forwards this summer. No real cap space, but last summer Polk proved he can get creative.

Miles Bridges (RFA)
Marvin Bagley (RFA)
TJ Warren
Robert Covington
Rudy Gay
Otto Porter Jr
Derrick Jones
Montrezl Harrell
Chris Boucher
Taurean Prince
Bjelica
Carmelo
Markieff Morris
Taj Gibson
James Johnson

I think backup center is also worth investigating, given Vuc's limitations. I'd argue someone like Drummond should start over him. There's also Whiteside who might be a better min player than Bradley.

[panthermark]

I think the hardest part of any significant upgrade at the 4 would be matching contract dollars, I wouldn't move any of our bigger contract guys which limited our ability to get a new 4.

One 4 who is on a smaller annual value deal and is playing really well this season as been Kyle Kuzma, and I have no idea what Washington's plan is there after trading for KP at the deadline.

And yes Kuzma has been good this year.

That is EXACTLY who I wanted at the deadline. (ClintEastwood wanted him as well....I quoted him on Page 10 of Trade thread #5 on January 8th).

Makes $13M this year.
Makes $13M next year.
Has a PO for $13M in 23-34.

Even had it in the trade forum.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2156457

Dude turns 27 in July and does not blow up the cap. That is the type of smaller trade that would have made sense. Maybe he is still available this summer, but Pat needs to "show something" in order to make it happen. But the timing does not work....we need "something" right now....not this summer.

[othawhitemeat]

Didnt really care for Pwill pick to begin w. I would trade him with someone hoping to see the talent. I think he could still flourish but he needs to be somewhere where a team is bad and lets him chuck to become more aggressive.

Stating this and going to sound crazy but would love to just draft Liddell and think he could fit our roster well. Liddell is a tweener 5 years ago but remunds me of a prime Millsap. I am reachung here a little but feel he would be a great fit.

[drosestruts]

FA forwards this summer. No real cap space, but last summer Polk proved he can get creative.

Miles Bridges (RFA)
Marvin Bagley (RFA)
TJ Warren
Robert Covington
Rudy Gay
Otto Porter Jr
Derrick Jones
Montrezl Harrell
Chris Boucher
Taurean Prince
Bjelica
Carmelo
Markieff Morris
Taj Gibson
James Johnson

I think backup center is also worth investigating, given Vuc's limitations. I'd argue someone like Drummond should start over him. There's also Whiteside who might be a better min player than Bradley.

Bench Vucevic and start Drummond? Take ten deep breaths bro and rethink that. The vuc slander is outrageous sometimes here.

[sco]

FA forwards this summer. No real cap space, but last summer Polk proved he can get creative.

Miles Bridges (RFA)
Marvin Bagley (RFA)
TJ Warren
Robert Covington
Rudy Gay
Otto Porter Jr
Derrick Jones
Montrezl Harrell
Chris Boucher
Taurean Prince
Bjelica
Carmelo
Markieff Morris
Taj Gibson
James Johnson

I think backup center is also worth investigating, given Vuc's limitations. I'd argue someone like Drummond should start over him. There's also Whiteside who might be a better min player than Bradley.

Bench Vucevic and start Drummond? Take ten deep breaths bro and rethink that. The vuc slander is outrageous sometimes here.

Our roster challenge will remain a bit next season at C. Beyond Vuc, Marko will still be under contract and Bradley has a player contract that there is a decent chance he'll take.

Also, barring a trade of Vuc (unlikely), we'll be way over the cap and have something like $10.5 M under the tax after accounting for Zach at max and a pick around 20. The above list gets narrowed down to the "above 33 crowd" under those circumstances. Honestly, the guy who'd help the most from that list (that I don't think we can afford) is Covington. He's shown to be a defensive stud still (despite his offense falling way off).

[kodo]

Our roster challenge will remain a bit next season at C. Beyond Vuc, Marko will still be under contract and Bradley has a player contract that there is a decent chance he'll take.

Also, barring a trade of Vuc (unlikely), we'll be way over the cap and have something like $10.5 M under the tax after accounting for Zach at max and a pick around 20. The above list gets narrowed down to the "above 33 crowd" under those circumstances. Honestly, the guy who'd help the most from that list (that I don't think we can afford) is Covington. He's shown to be a defensive stud still (despite his offense falling way off).

I think it's obvious some combination of Vucevic, Patrick, and White need to be traded.

"Running it back" with this team next season is insanity, even with Lonzo healthy. The one player who was keeping this team afloat will be sliding downwards as Derozan gets older. We ran him over 36 mpg this season, which he hasn't done since he was 24 years old. I don't expect DDR to be as good next season.

Derozan - aging into 33
Lavine - showing more & more knee issues on his ACL knee
Lonzo - also showing knee stability issues

Even if all 3 were in healthy, the team construction was flawed.

[kodo]

Bench Vucevic and start Drummond? Take ten deep breaths bro and rethink that. The vuc slander is outrageous sometimes here.

If you're going to go ultra-micro ball with 6' 3" Javonte Green and 6' 4" Caruso as your PF, someone like Drummond has to be the center instead of a soft, perimeter oriented big like Vuc. Vuc has always worked with an athletic PF like Aaron Gordon or Jonathan Isaac. He has never held down the entire paint by himself.

Chicago is 23rd in points in the paint allowed. EC teams that are contenders are top 3 (Miami, Boston, Milwaukee). Even Toronto is at least top 10. If Vucevic is our team's defensive ceiling, Chicago is going to be treadmilling for a long time.

[sco]

I feel like the one position that seems to have good players drop to later in the draft is PF. Especially 3&D PF's.

I will also say that our best PF this season has been DJJ...especially next to Vuc. Unfortunately, Billy doesn't like him as much as Green. I think DJJ has done better against bigs and providing rim protection than anyone on our roster. That said, if Billy won't play him ahead of Green, there seems no point to keep him. We need someone that Billy would legitimately play over Pat next season.

[drosestruts]

Bench Vucevic and start Drummond? Take ten deep breaths bro and rethink that. The vuc slander is outrageous sometimes here.

If you're going to go ultra-micro ball with 6' 3" Javonte Green and 6' 4" Caruso as your PF, someone like Drummond has to be the center instead of a soft, perimeter oriented big like Vuc. Vuc has always worked with an athletic PF like Aaron Gordon or Jonathan Isaac. He has never held down the entire paint by himself.

Chicago is 23rd in points in the paint allowed. EC teams that are contenders are top 3 (Miami, Boston, Milwaukee). Even Toronto is at least top 10. If Vucevic is our team's defensive ceiling, Chicago is going to be treadmilling for a long time.

I feel like there's two separate thoughts going on here.

Point 1 - if we're playing ultra small we'd benefit from a good defensive center. This I agree with, it's just that Drummond isn't that guy. Drummond is an elite rebounder. He is not a good defender. and he's not particularly good at anything else. Swapping Vuc for Drummond would help the team in rebounding. In every other facet I'd say it's neutral at best, or a downgrade.

Points in the paint - I think it's wrong to look at points in the paint and assume it's being led by opposing teams' big men. I think the more likely explanation is that other teams' guards and forwards are better at getting to and scoring in the paint. Toronto, who you called out, as no traditional big man, and yet as you noted scores more in the paint. It's not because Khem Birch is a low-post savant, it's because FVV, Siakam, Barnes, OG, and others attack the basket.

Same goes for Boston and Miami - guys like Tatum, Brown, Butler etc are better at attacking the basket than our top backcourt and wing players. Statmuse.com has shot carts for every player - these opposing guys shoot a lot more near the basket than we do.

[RSP83]

some interesting names with expiring deals next year:
- Harrison Barnes
- Jerami Grant
- Myles Turner
- Steven Adams
- Christian Wood
- Kyle Kuzma
- Jakob Poletl
- Maxi Kleber

[MrSparkle]

We have 3 main holes:

C defense
3P shooting
PG penetration

Vuc's making the latter 2 worse by not being a 3P spacing threat like he was in Orlando. Teams are giving him the open shot, and he's not making anyone pay. The spacing is bad.

It's a little dreamy to have 5 high-caliber starters. The cHeat had to get away with Mario Chalmers and Joel Anthony for their first season. If I recall, they still made it to game 6 of the finals, and we're 0-16 or whatever against contenders, and getting blown out by tank jobs like the Magic. I realize their big 3 were amongst the best of all-time, but our top 3 are very flawed.

Defensively, I think bum-knee Zach and Vuc are amongst the worst high-minute defensive tandem in the NBA right now. It's kind of a miracle Donovan has this defensive rating still at 20th. Could it be that having quicker feet actually... still helps the defense? Yeah probably. We're generally getting killed on rebounds, but I don't buy for a second that going bigger and slower at PF would help our defense. It would help our rebounding.

Still not sure what a conventional PF (short of an all-star PF) does for this team. We saw Thad/Theis/Vuc combos really struggle to win games last year, and the offensive spacing with our high-usage midrange king and the rest would be a sight for sore eyes with the way our guards are shooting.

I'd like a value guy like Crowder or PJ Tucker as much as the next guy, but... they're not available.

I'd continue to prioritize upgrading the core. Which as I see it, Vuc must be upgraded. The PF hole has to be addressed with a minimal asset (ideally the MLE).

[Wingy]

In hindsight, too bad we didn’t trade Pat for Vuc.

Maybe we could’ve saved a 1st in the process?

WCJ probably could’ve complimented Vuc pretty well.

[sco]

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2022/03/31/pacers-asking-price-for-myles-turner-reportedly-a-lottery-protected-first-rounder-lets-talk-about-that/

“I spoke with four NBA executives who told me they believe Myles Turner can still get a protected first-round pick outside the lottery if he’s traded this offseason,” Scotto told Fieldhouse Files’ Scott Agness in a recent episode of the HoopsHype Podcast. “When I asked the executives which teams they believe could try and trade for him, the usual suspects came up, including Charlotte, Toronto and Dallas.”

Hmmm. HMMMMM.

I happen to know a team that currently owns an extra lottery-protected first-round pick from Portland and is in severe need of frontcourt defense!

*Whispers*: It’s the Chicago Bulls.

Now, before the Nikola Vucevic haters start a GoFundMe to pay for Turner’s contract extension, let me be very clear: There have been no rumors or reports to suggest the Chicago Bulls have considered getting rid of Nikola Vucevic. In fact, if anything, the opinion of NBC Sports Chicago’s K.C. Johnson in his latest mailbag was he expects both Vucevic and DeRozan to return next season. We should too.