Miami Heat Regular Season Thread 21-22 Vol. 4

[carnageta]

It's all about making shots. Not buying these locker room drama stories that have impacted this team all year. At the end of the day, you win games by being able to hit big shots.

Celtics 74 - Miami 69 - Lowry comes up the court and hits a huge three to stop Boston's 15-0 run. Herro then hits a mid-range jay the very next possession tying up the game.

Celtics 90 - Miami 85 - Lowry comes up the court and once again nails a three pointer to cut the lead to 2. Strus then hits a big shot afterwards as well.

Had even one of these shots not gone in, the game could have very well swung in the opposite direction resulting in a different outcome. That's what the playoffs are all about. If we flail out early it's not because of locker room tension.. it's because we couldn't hit the shots when they mattered most.

If ya'll recall our 2020 playoff run, we were extremely clutch and won every single close game (other than game 4 vs the Bucks). Our execution was on another level and quite frankly, we probably came away with a game or two that we shouldn't have purely due to shot making. In the postseason last year, how does it play out if we had won game 1? We lost by an inch and it took the air out of our team and gave the Bucks all the confidence and momentum in the world (just like we did the year prior by winning a close game 1).


tldr; - luck plays a vital role in the playoffs and it wouldn't surprise me if we lose in the first round, nor if we make the finals. Locker room drama is being overblown and is being used as a 'safety net' in case we can't hit our threes in the postseason.

[EMC5466]

Brian Windbag says the altercation on the Heat bench between Spo and Jimmy led to a series of tense meetings with Pat Riley. Windhorst the Hutt says things are ok for now but could explode again so it’s something to keep an eye on.

[al bondiga]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

[oreon]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

Team has generally overperfomed since Bron left. The only year we underperformed was last season which we were screwed over by the schedule. You can criticize Spo approach post allstar break because they haven't been playing well. But generally speaking he has overperformed regular season expectations again. Most didn't expect 50 wins or be a no 1 seed in the East.

So if we are heading in the wrong direction, then I can only guess your expectations are finals appearance. But if we are being honest in terms of talent this team is behind Bucks, Nets and Sixers in the East. Personally if we loose to any of the 3, I'm not going to complain. Because usually talent wins out in the NBA. And the way the Heat build their teams now by refusing to bottom out makes it really really hard to get that Dwayne Wade MVP top 10 franchise player you can build your team around for 15 years.

So what you are relying is b level stars and systems and coaching to get you to the mountain top. But rarely that happens. Last title teams had Giannis, Lebron & AD, Kawhi, Durant & Curry.

Despite the recent loosing streak, this regular season is still a huge success. The playoffs is to be decided and it all depends on who they loose to. As long as they don't loose to any other teams outside of those 3 teams then I think its still a success.

[oreon]

Brian Windbag says the altercation on the Heat bench between Spo and Jimmy led to a series of tense meetings with Pat Riley. Windhorst the Hutt says things are ok for now but could explode again so it’s something to keep an eye on.

Butler is definitely the personality to wear down on people. But I'm less concerned about that then his contract. If this ends up in a 2nd round exit, he should be traded in the offseason. Not saying the exit would be his fault but his contract going forward is going to be horrendous. And if we find out this playoffs this core can't compete with the top East teams then we need to make moves to gain some flexibility back and wait for an opportunity where a real top 10 guy becomes available by trade or FA.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Brian Windbag says the altercation on the Heat bench between Spo and Jimmy led to a series of tense meetings with Pat Riley. Windhorst the Hutt says things are ok for now but could explode again so it’s something to keep an eye on.

Windbag grasping for straws and making something of nothing as usual imo. This dude has been proven wrong so many times

[somerandomdude]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

I think he'll be back, but it'd be a mistake if he doesn't change his philosophy.

I don't know how many more times we can continue rebuilding/retooling with the same coach and expect a different result.

If it's the players fault, then the blame goes to Riley. But if the team underachieved, then it's on Spo. I don't think it's Riley and he's got tenure as far as I'm concerned.

And I don't know about you guys, but I've felt that in many seasons, our teams did not meet expectations. Those expectations weren't even unreasonable, just making the playoffs in some cases, like in 18-19 (we dropped 5 out of our last 6 games to miss the playoffs. At least we got Herro out of that).

[dshearn]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

Team has generally overperfomed since Bron left. The only year we underperformed was last season which we were screwed over by the schedule. You can criticize Spo approach post allstar break because they haven't been playing well. But generally speaking he has overperformed regular season expectations again. Most didn't expect 50 wins or be a no 1 seed in the East.

So if we are heading in the wrong direction, then I can only guess your expectations are finals appearance. But if we are being honest in terms of talent this team is behind Bucks, Nets and Sixers in the East. Personally if we loose to any of the 3, I'm not going to complain. Because usually talent wins out in the NBA. And the way the Heat build their teams now by refusing to bottom out makes it really really hard to get that Dwayne Wade MVP top 10 franchise player you can build your team around for 15 years.

So what you are relying is b level stars and systems and coaching to get you to the mountain top. But rarely that happens. Last title teams had Giannis, Lebron & AD, Kawhi, Durant & Curry.

Despite the recent loosing streak, this regular season is still a huge success. The playoffs is to be decided and it all depends on who they loose to. As long as they don't loose to any other teams outside of those 3 teams then I think its still a success.

This is VERY GOOD take.

You can put Jimmy anywhere in the top 20 player you want to, but the gods honest truth is he cannot close out a game with regularity. Dude is too limited offensively. His lack of 3 point shooting combined with lacking a moderate volume 3 point shooting big, is likely why we see small ball. Spo probably dreads Yurt, Bam, Jimmy clogging up the paint.

Pat Riley is not a dumb man, i suspect he is basing his expectations on the growth of Bam and Herro. Pat is in practice, he knows how they are being coached, he knows what is asked of them, and he knows their growth. If there was a conflict with the direction of the Heat based on coaching it has already been addressed behind closed doors.

The coaching staff has rehabilitated and developed far too many players off the scrap heap to wonder if there is talent on the Heat coaching staff. I highly doubt Spo gets shown the door because he was one of the vast majority of coaches that has yet been able to deliver a championship with out an MVP level talent.

[insfo]

Lol, so looks like we are ready to fire Spo because he's stubborn in not playing Yurt? If that does happen, I'm sure there will be teams lining up to fire their current coach and hire Spo. If history has shown us anything Riley will back Spo, so unless you want to fire Riley too, we will not see a different coach in the near future.

All that said, with a full training camp and summer league, I hope Yurt takes over as the backup C from Dedmon next year. Regarding Butler, he's obviously a flawed player, and I'm pretty sure the Heat brass knew about it when they made the deal. They are just betting that they can win a chip before the wheels come off, and it's becoming a bit wobbly off late. Hopefully with some minor tinkering we can keep things on the rails for atleast another year!

[eddieheatfan]

Pretty interesting points.

TLDW
-The incident last week is concerning and has been brewing for a long time
-JB and Spo have struggled all year of direct contact on/off the court all season
-The Heat organization still supports Butler over the incident
-The Heat will play Gabe Vincent over Dipo in the PO

I have a feeling that if we blow out early in PO, one of them (JB or Spo) is gone here next season.

Watch on YouTube

Spoiler:

Donovan Mitchell and Butler trade incoming?

listening to this youtube video right now but i said it here. the fact that the gabe was sat for dipo didnt sit well with some of the players and even more so when he was playing lost out there.

you just dont sit a guy that was playing his butt off and playing well too boot.like i said they bring dipo too late in to the rotation when it was already a thing.


but now the can of worms have been opened and if the heat loses in the first two rounds is either bye jimmy or bye spo.

you can almost count on this

[somerandomdude]

To the Spo supporters:

Instead of laughing at us and pretending you know better, try engaging in discussion, and be ready to explain the dumb crap that Spo does, like creating a defensive scheme that calls for Lowry to switch on to Jokic.

"Lol"

[oreon]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

I think he'll be back, but it'd be a mistake if he doesn't change his philosophy.

I don't know how many more times we can continue rebuilding/retooling with the same coach and expect a different result.

If it's the players fault, then the blame goes to Riley. But if the team underachieved, then it's on Spo. I don't think it's Riley and he's got tenure as far as I'm concerned.

And I don't know about you guys, but I've felt that in many seasons, our teams did not meet expectations. Those expectations weren't even unreasonable, just making the playoffs in some cases, like in 18-19 (we dropped 5 out of our last 6 games to miss the playoffs. At least we got Herro out of that).

Lets look at that season closely. This after Dion and JJ robbed Pat and were back to playing like scrubs. Goran our best player played 36 games. Dion played 44 but was horrible most season. D Wade was back, but that was his retirement year, he averaged 15 pts. Bam was pretty raw and a rookie. Hassan already got paid and he was back to being a bum
I remember that season pretty well. The only good thing about it was D Wade retirement tour. Otherwise that team was crap. In fact the team outlook was pretty bad. We were capped out, Dion, JJ & Hassan were kinda untradeable. We were hoping Winslow and J Rich would become something.
That team was supposed to make playoffs ? C'mon now. No one, expected playoffs. You need some talent to make playoffs. And with Goran hurt that team didn't even have a borderline allstar talent player on the roster

[marson]

Lol, so looks like we are ready to fire Spo because he's stubborn in not playing Yurt? If that does happen, I'm sure there will be teams lining up to fire their current coach and hire Spo. If history has shown us anything Riley will back Spo, so unless you want to fire Riley too, we will not see a different coach in the near future.

All that said, with a full training camp and summer league, I hope Yurt takes over as the backup C from Dedmon next year. Regarding Butler, he's obviously a flawed player, and I'm pretty sure the Heat brass knew about it when they made the deal. They are just betting that they can win a chip before the wheels come off, and it's becoming a bit wobbly off late. Hopefully with some minor tinkering we can keep things on the rails for atleast another year!

I'm pretty certain Dedmon is gone and we'll get the fully unleashed Yurtz next year.

[carnageta]

What's with all of the Jimmy Butler negativity?

We'd be a .500 team without him. Yeah, he isn't perfect, but who really is? Name me a star who can play lockdown defense on a nightly basis and consistently score 20+? You won't find many..

In a playoff series there are maybe 10 guys in the entire league you take over Butler, with those guys being (in no particular order):

1) KD
2) Giannis
3) Lebron
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Embiid
7) Doncic
8) Kawhi*
9) Chris Paul
10) Dame*

Klay is a big unknown and Ja is unproven. Trae is a net negative and Anthony Davis spends more time in the hospital than Kyrie Irving.

Butler is ELITE. Too much energy is spent on what he can't do and not enough on what he can (and does) do. Give me Jimmy James Butler over Tatum, Brown, Derozan, Lavine, Mitchell, Kyrie, Booker, Harden, FVV, PG, KAT, etc. etc. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

[3ballbomber]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

I don't see any real valid reasons for firing Spo. No not playing Yurts is not a good enough reason Why are cats quick to throw away valuable things other teams wld jump to have!?

Since the Big-3 we've never had a legit contending team. Not even when we made the finals in the bubble, nor currently as we sit 1st in the East. From what I see we're accomplishing things as a result not in spite of Spo. Why would Riles & this organisation remove him? Because fans aren't happy!?

Judge Spo when he has the necessary team to contend & fails to maximise opportunities or capitalise on it. As far as I'm concerned he has done well w/ what he has had to work with. How many coaches can do what he has done? You'd risk firing him to find out!? This season alone we've managed to be on top of the east in spite of the injuries/covid protocols etc. You don't achieve that w/ a bad coach.

Grass is not always greener on the other side. In fact many looking at our side of the yard wishing they had we what have. While we want to throw it away.

Again though....when things are going well cats stfu. Like during the bubble fans weren't saying sh*t! As soon as we have a stretch of bad games people come out complaining. It's quite tiring. I ride w/ this team until the wheels fall off.

[harlem_ball]

Spo is a good coach but he has gone the Dantoni route and has lost his way. Instead of maximizing the players on the team he wants the players to conform to his system without adjustment. He is wasting seasons by not making these adjustments to get everyone involved to make the team as best as it can be and his brand of ball is a proven failure.

I made a new thread about it if you want to expand on this subject because these general, unspecific "regular season" threads give me claustrophobia.

[greg4012]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

I think he'll be back, but it'd be a mistake if he doesn't change his philosophy.

I don't know how many more times we can continue rebuilding/retooling with the same coach and expect a different result.

If it's the players fault, then the blame goes to Riley. But if the team underachieved, then it's on Spo. I don't think it's Riley and he's got tenure as far as I'm concerned.

And I don't know about you guys, but I've felt that in many seasons, our teams did not meet expectations. Those expectations weren't even unreasonable, just making the playoffs in some cases, like in 18-19 (we dropped 5 out of our last 6 games to miss the playoffs. At least we got Herro out of that).

So has our team fallen short of anyone's expectations to this point in the season?

[harlem_ball]

don't have a lot of inside information on the heat, but I do know a lot of BB, some about the psychology of humans and of Corporations... we are a solid top 5 team in the east, with some stars and pretty good young coach who has done a good job in the last decade...but in my eyes is missing the mark and headed in the wrong direction because of his stubbornness

My question is will, spo be back next year if the team has a subpar Playoffs??

I think he'll be back, but it'd be a mistake if he doesn't change his philosophy.

I don't know how many more times we can continue rebuilding/retooling with the same coach and expect a different result.

If it's the players fault, then the blame goes to Riley. But if the team underachieved, then it's on Spo. I don't think it's Riley and he's got tenure as far as I'm concerned.

And I don't know about you guys, but I've felt that in many seasons, our teams did not meet expectations. Those expectations weren't even unreasonable, just making the playoffs in some cases, like in 18-19 (we dropped 5 out of our last 6 games to miss the playoffs. At least we got Herro out of that).

So has our team fallen short of anyone's expectations to this point in the season?

Spo has done a good job this season but there are perhaps missed opportunities to take the team to a higher level. The playoffs are where he will be most assessed. Let's see how he gets the team to compete. The Celtics win was a good sign, honestly, but if Spo fails early there must be questions asked.

[greg4012]

I think he'll be back, but it'd be a mistake if he doesn't change his philosophy.

I don't know how many more times we can continue rebuilding/retooling with the same coach and expect a different result.

If it's the players fault, then the blame goes to Riley. But if the team underachieved, then it's on Spo. I don't think it's Riley and he's got tenure as far as I'm concerned.

And I don't know about you guys, but I've felt that in many seasons, our teams did not meet expectations. Those expectations weren't even unreasonable, just making the playoffs in some cases, like in 18-19 (we dropped 5 out of our last 6 games to miss the playoffs. At least we got Herro out of that).

So has our team fallen short of anyone's expectations to this point in the season?

Spo has done a good job this season but there are perhaps missed opportunities to take the team to a higher level. The playoffs are where he will be most assessed. Let's see how he gets the team to compete. The Celtics win was a good sign, honestly, but if Spo fails early there must be questions asked.

I feel like posters simultaneously overreact to minute decisions made in regular season games and still somehow undervalue the whole picture of the coaching job and team performance this regular season.

[eddieheatfan]

To the Spo supporters:

Instead of laughing at us and pretending you know better, try engaging in discussion, and be ready to explain the dumb crap that Spo does, like creating a defensive scheme that calls for Lowry to switch on to Jokic.

"Lol"

yeah putting a guard on a skilled center is pretty smart