The Greek Geek Vs. The Turkish Terror, Bucks @ Sixers 3/29 7:00pm EST

[Ferry Avenue]

So why don't the players that have the "Michael Jordan variable" win every season? Or do some players have more Michael Jordan variable in their bloodstream than others.

How has Chris Paul overcame being the first player in NBA history to blow four 2-0 leads and still maintain his mythical Michael Jordan variable?

They do. They essentially exchange the championship trophy among each other year to year. They don't exist on just one team.

The problem with the Sixers is that they don't have enough of what we're talking about to play at that level, and so they can't be one of those teams. We're looking at another second-round exit again this year.

[Mik317]

CP3 has choked his entire career man. You are talking about him like he has 8 chips already.

Again the guy w/ the highest Dog rating (this is so stupid) is Westbrook. How has that worked out for him?

Again I am not the biggest Harden fan...but his playoff failures have also come against the **** Warriors....yknow one of the best teams in the decade.

Your whole theory and any of these personality based ones miss the main context IMO. We lost this particular game because Giannis was able to get it going against our bench and then made a fantastic play at the end to block the shot. Team with no "dog energy" gets housed ...we had a great chance to win this one and with some small adjustments I could see us winning it....that doesn't mean we are going to win it all by playing Bassey or Reed. Nor does matching Biid and Giannis minutes mean we sweep them...there are more often unknown variables at play when it comes to winning or losing. To bottle it down to "this guy has dog energy" is lame and hard to quantify. Someone brought up Dirk. He was considered a soft loser until he finally broke through. And that happened as the team added pieces to make up for his flaws (and Bron's dog energy powers apparently not activating I guess huh). There are far more interesting ways to evaluate games than "this guy isn't like Jordan so thats why". Feels reductive as hell.

[Ferry Avenue]

The point is that a player like Chris Paul can certainly demonstrate downward variation from "dog" level, but if his norm on a hypothetical "dog" scale that ranges from 0 to 100 is 90 (around which he varies) and James Harden's norm on the same scale is 60 (around which he varies as well), Paul is obviously far more a dog than Harden despite the inevitable downward variation in Paul's performance on occasion in that regard.

In other words, you can't use single instances of failure to determine players aren't "dogs" when there is inevitable downward variation in performance for every player. The question is, what is his norm?

Peyton Manning for example had games in the NFL that were just as bad as those by Jamarcus Russell for example, but both players obviously varied around a far different norm.

This is totally different from your previous point.

Hilariously, if you apply this same reasoning to teams instead of single players you would understand the problem with your opinion

We're talking about teams. We're talking about the degree to which they possess this quality as a team, which in turn is driven by the players on the team.

The Sixers are just as physically talented as any team in the league. What they don't have are dog players who take over and win games in the clutch. That's what distinguishes them from the best teams in the league and makes them play at a lower level, despite the equivalence in physical talent.

[Jailblazers7]

This is the worst basketball discussion I've ever witnessed on these boards

Hilarious that there’s a discussion about the statistical distribution of a players “dog level”. It really is taking the worst parts of eye test vs stats and mushing them together.

[Murray_17]

We're talking about teams. We're talking about the degree to which they possess this quality as a team, which in turn is driven by the players on the team.

The Sixers are just as physically talented as any team in the league. What they don't have is dog players who take over and win games in the clutch. That's what distinguishes them from the best teams in the league and makes them play at a lower level, despite the equivalence in physical talent.

Ok, this is where we should end this combo.

If you think this, no wonder you believe everything is resolved in some magical mental chess

[stormi]

So why don't the players that have the "Michael Jordan variable" win every season? Or do some players have more Michael Jordan variable in their bloodstream than others.

How has Chris Paul overcame being the first player in NBA history to blow four 2-0 leads and still maintain his mythical Michael Jordan variable?

They do. They essentially exchange the championship trophy among each other year to year.

Ohhhh, so Lebron, KD, Kyrie, Durant and everyone else you named, CP3 (why?), Booker (why?), Morant (why?) sacrificed their dog levels and massively choked considering it was a first time champion last season. Nothing basketball related or to do with team composition or injury luck, some higher levels of dog are necessary if KD wants to win it this season.

[Ferry Avenue]

Take it from the players folks:

CP3 joined the Phoenix Suns from OKC and has proven that he made the right decision. He has been the leader on this team, while also being their best player.

Post-game, Chris Paul was asked what made him join the Phoenix Suns. The 36-year-old said, “The big reason was the light skin guy right here, No. 1 Devin Booker. … He is a dog.”

The players know what wins at that level.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/nba-basketball-news-chris-paul-reveals-how-devin-booker-was-the-number-one-reason-he-joined-phoenix-suns/

Thanks for the discussion. I have other things to get done now.

[stormi]

dog

[stormi]

This is the worst basketball discussion I've ever witnessed on these boards

Hilarious that there’s a discussion about the statistical distribution of a players “dog level”. It really is taking the worst parts of eye test vs stats and mushing them together.

It really is just doing your own self a disservice if you can't come up with an analysis of the series' that you're watching and think it's the "dog" summation per team that's dictating these outcomes.

[Negrodamus]

This is the worst basketball discussion I've ever witnessed on these boards

This was helpful. I breezed past walls of text to see if there was any worth in reading them in the short, concise posts. Thank you for your service.

[Negrodamus]

I am glad I did stop to view those videos which did have the iconic "Doc literally **** his pants en route to another disappointment" look.

[mjkvol]

again Giannis was a career choke artist until last year lol.

In which Kris Middleton often turned into Jordan and Jrue handled the rock allowing Giannis to not have to create.

This whole dog mentality **** is lame lol. Giannis was always a high energy guy who played hard....that simply wasn't enough due to his supporting cast most of the time. Westbrook is probably the guy who plays the hardest in the whole league....has not worked for him lately ha.

Embiid will probably never be a closer. Too big. Too goofy at times. It is what it is. However, both him and Harden got shots they can and have made and just missed them...**** happens. Guys are trying to build their narrative over it when the reality, the game turned during that bench time and the Bucks got into rhythm and we couldn't get back into ours. Giannis scored 15 of his points against that second unit. That was the game....its not that hard of a concept.

This x 1000. Thank you.

[mjkvol]

Philly fans are borderline trolls if some of these are legit fans on here. The game was controlled well by Harden and the reason we lost this game was because our backup big is washed and gave Giannis 17 points in the last quarters while Embiid sat. 0 points 0 assists 0 rebounds and gave up 17 points to Giannis in his 9 minutes. This game would have been won if our defense was better, very simple. Best way to get better is a defensive wing that can shoot and a legit backup big. Maxey can actually run the second unit and act as a microwave scorer as well and can split time with Harden. He proved that with his Heat dismantling, and he will get even better with more time under Hardens wing.

So nice to see some logic and actual understanding of the game amidst the trolling. This game was lost when Embiid sat and Glenn watched Giannis run wild with no resistance. Period, end of story.

The Sixers got makeable shots at the end that didn't fall and Giannis made a great defensive play. Schiit happens. Move on.

[mjkvol]

I think the big difference between Giannis and Embiid right now is that in crunch time Giannis & Milwaukee know exactly what they want on offense. They’re either running a Jrue/Giannis PnR for a lob or isoing Giannis to get to the rim or shoot his turnaround from the left block.

Sixers seems to run an Embiid/Harden PnR to force a switch and then cross our fingers that one of them can make a shot. But often it leads to a contested step back or some other low percentage shot. And Embiid can still be sped up and forced into bad decisions so there isn’t really a better alternative. Ideally, we’d run some action to get Embiid a look at the left side elbow and let him go to work. But the problem is that teams will just double him which too often leads to a panicked, low quality shot or a turnover from Embiid.

Developing a closing strategy is the last leap that Embiid needs to make as a player to be the leader of a championship team.

Agreed, and that will be made easier with some roster changes to add players that have to be respected in those spots as far as making C&S 3's. If all five players need to be defended, it's harder to collapse on Embiid or Harden. The Bucks have that, plus they have a legitimate coach.

[mjkvol]

Contrarily in similar situations like you said, Joel Embiid is prone to getting away from his own game and making errant decisions. Overdribbling, getting suffocated with the ball in his hands and getting forced into low percentage shots. I feel like more often than not in a 76ers clutch time moment, the opposing defense is dictating the shot we get as opposed to it being a look we want whether it's a make or miss. Most of Embiid's biggest plays in his career clutch wise have been deep contested 3's at the buzzer. Like realistically speaking, that isn't a good shot, nor the shot we probably intended for him to take, but he can make them.

One thing I would love to see Embiid start to do, and I really hope that Harden is saying this to him, is to just take that open elbow jumper off a P&P pass from Harden instead of dribbling himself into a tougher shot from the same area ala Tobias. Watch when Embiid gets the ball on those passes by Harden, it's inevitably the type of open midrange shot that he usually eats up. Just take the shot.

[mjkvol]

Its easy to call someone a dog winner when you move goalposts I guess.

People win because they are good and have good teams. This team as currently constructed has flaws that can't be overcome.

Perfect. This deserved to be reposted.

When talking about this "dog mentality", what exactly defines it? Winning? Well, aside from Jordan what "dog" hasn't folded or choked (much as I hate that word) at least as much as they have won? Showing emotion? Well, Mik said it best earlier comparing Westbrook and Duncan - one is pure fire and considered a loser while the other is a wood block and is a champion. Hitting the big shot? The alleged "dogs" have failed as much as they have succeeded there, probably more so.

Acting as if you can figure out what any player has inside them mentally is a fool's game and an incredibly easy, lazy way to explain away wins and losses that will always be fraught with inconsistencies and contradictions.

[mjkvol]

This is the worst basketball discussion I've ever witnessed on these boards

Welcome to the warped world of Ferry Avenue.

[mjkvol]

The point is that a player like Chris Paul can certainly demonstrate downward variation from "dog" level, but if his norm on a hypothetical "dog" scale that ranges from 0 to 100 is 90 (around which he varies) and James Harden's norm on the same scale is 60 (around which he varies as well), Paul is obviously far more a dog than Harden despite the inevitable downward variation in Paul's performance on occasion in that regard.

The Sixers are just as physically talented as any team in the league.

The first part might be the most absurd mumbo jumbo I've yet seen on this board, even from you, and the second part pretty much disqualifies you from even discussing the Sixers any more.

[Zumramania]

Dog mentality hahah
Quote: "Harris has been struggling on the offensive end in this series. Through the first four games, he shot 35 percent from the field. He’s one of the main reasons why the Sixers lost Game 4, and it doesn’t look like he’s bound for a breakout game anytime soon."
In that game 4 he missed 11 threes, setting the all-time franchise record, all while being far from the first or second offensive option. If Tobias didn't do this against Toronto, we would have probably won the series and Embiid would have gotten the ring.

If the Bucks didn't get rid of Bledsoe, they probably would have never sniffed the Finals, let alone win anything. Heck even if Saric didn't get injured against them in the finals, in my opinion they would not win that series. Did Giannis's "dog mentality" cause Bledsoe to be traded, Nets' players and Saric to get injured?

But in my opinion there are / were players and people in our org that don't have the "dog mentality": Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris, Elton Brand because he gave him that contract and Doc Rivers. This year at least we got rid of Ben Simmons and EB is not calling the shots anymore. Two more to go.

[stormi]

Contrarily in similar situations like you said, Joel Embiid is prone to getting away from his own game and making errant decisions. Overdribbling, getting suffocated with the ball in his hands and getting forced into low percentage shots. I feel like more often than not in a 76ers clutch time moment, the opposing defense is dictating the shot we get as opposed to it being a look we want whether it's a make or miss. Most of Embiid's biggest plays in his career clutch wise have been deep contested 3's at the buzzer. Like realistically speaking, that isn't a good shot, nor the shot we probably intended for him to take, but he can make them.

One thing I would love to see Embiid start to do, and I really hope that Harden is saying this to him, is to just take that open elbow jumper off a P&P pass from Harden instead of dribbling himself into a tougher shot from the same area ala Tobias. Watch when Embiid gets the ball on those passes by Harden, it's inevitably the type of open midrange shot that he usually eats up. Just take the shot.

Yep! That's where the overthinking definitely comes in, unless it's by design to run clock? He almost always has that elbow look in final possession type situations that he'll pass it up to dribble himself into a trap where he's forced to take super tough fadeaways or under the rim swarmed with defenders.

That kind of stuff is mental, he needs to trust his instinct.