Bensational wrote:Xatticus wrote:Bensational wrote:
Would you trade for Gobert? If so, what would be be prepared to give up for him?
I’d do Isaac + Bamba + Cap relief for them. I doubt they’d consider that, but depends on how many teams have an appetite for Gobert’s contract.
Probably not. He is a fantastic player though. He just doesn't fit where we are. If they were dumping his salary, I'd get involved, but that isn't a realistic expectation. If we had a dynamic, burgeoning playmaker, than I'd absolutely consider picking him up, but we don't have that. I think he'd be a great fit alongside a Doncic or Trae Young. That would be a dream get for Atlanta, I think.
I wouldn't ever look at it as what I'm willing to give up. You are destined to overpay if you go in with the approach that we must have this guy, the other team will want a lot in return, and we must blow them away to get the deal done. You have to wait for the market to come to you. If that happens... great. If it doesn't, then there is no point in trying to force it.
Everyone wants to expedite our rebuild right now, but that is absolutely what I would not be doing. I believe you accumulate talent and continue to develop it until winning happens. You wait for the opportunities to present themselves and you continue to acquire ammunition in the meantime.
Consider Atlanta... they have short-circuited their rebuild a bit and they aren't better for it. Hypothetically though, if they can turn Collins and a 1st-round-pick into Gobert, how good do they look? I'd go get Quin Snyder as well, since he seems to be on his way out of Utah. That's a team fighting for the top spot in the East while still developing some nice pieces. If we manage our situation correctly, we could be there within a couple years.
Fair points, but I’m unsure why you wouldn’t have values attached to your players which allow you to decide who is an expendable package and who isn’t should future opportunity arise? Earmarking guys you’re prepared to trade (without putting them on the block and advertising it) just makes you more prepared when the market does come to you - like Gobert suddenly being available. Without that kind of consideration you’d be negotiating in the heat of the moment and possibly moving pieces you’d rather not to capture an available target.
I think we see differently on the approach of adding seasoned talent. Whilst it would expedite the rebuild, that wouldn’t be the ultimate goal of such a move in my mind. It would be about bringing in the right pieces who play the right way specifically to maximise the development of the talent we already have onboard. I’m not sure Atlanta would’ve been any better if they’d not made moves for Gallinari, Bogdanovic and Capela, especially if they’ve accumulated a group of young players who develop ‘prove themselves’ mentalities that overtake team performance. To succeed in that model you need rapid accession from 1-3 players to establish a pecking order for others to get behind like KAT/Edwards, Jokic/Murray, Gobert/Mitchell, Tatum/Brown, Curry/Klay/Draymond, Durant/Harden/Westbrook, etc. If that doesn’t happen internally you’re either short handed and forced to look externally as has happened with Trae, Luka, Lillard, etc.
This isn’t a hard sell on Gobert. With the limited shooting from our backcourt he likely isn’t the best fit for who we have onboard. But playing devil’s advocate: Gobert/Jabari/Franz would give me serious Dwight/Rashard/Hedo vibes that could be worth investigating. If we could learn lessons from that past team, like get a good PG instead of Cole Anthony 1.0 and build out perimeter shooting, ball movement and defense then we could have a solid future framework.
Nobody would ever be off the table for me. There will be some guys that won't ever realistically get moved because you value them more than anyone else, but if someone offered me Giannis for Franz Wagner, I don't even have to think about it before accepting.
You can know how you value your own players, but you are never going to know precisely how your counterparts value them. I've discussed at length what I think of everyone on our roster. Suffice it to say, if they asked for Ross and Cole, I'd rip their arm off. That's not going to happen.
Your goal should be to load your roster with as many enticing assets as you can such that you can take advantage of opportunities when they arise. Every organization in the league has different valuations for every player in the league. Their own as well as others. Those values are dictated not only based on talent or production, but also based on contract status, age, fit, etc... Further, every player's value is also going to be influenced by their current situation. This is why trading works. There is always inefficiency in the marketplace. Example: Patrick Williams' value is going to wither and die if he spends the next two years watching DeRozan, LaVine, and Vucevic occupy the lion's share of that team's offense. Similarly, if the Bulls kept their pick and drafted Franz Wagner onto their current roster, I can guarantee you he isn't averaging anything close to 15 points per game.
My lack of interest in Gobert would be based on the fact that he would fit much better on other rosters, so presumably, I wouldn't part with as much to get him. He doesn't create offense. He wouldn't work in our DHO offense. That said, Gobert is still a very valuable offensive player for a team that possesses someone that can consistently take advantage of his tools. We don't have that. Bamba could excel in a similar fashion of he had a dynamic playmaker spoonfeeding him a few extra dunks per game. Utah isn't giving us a discount simply because we don't have a system and personnel in place to maximize his talents. So, in effect, we would be paying more for less. This wouldn't be much of a consideration for me if he was young enough and I had the pathway to acquire what is needed to unlock his maximum value, but he isn't and we don't. It's like going out and paying a premium price for the best receiver in the game for a team that is running out an option offense with a QB that can't throw. Does he make you better? Sure. Would he do more for a team that actually throws the ball? Of course.
"Xatticus has always been, in my humble opinion best poster here. Should write articles or something."
-pepe1991
