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Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1981 » by basketballRob » Wed Apr 6, 2022 11:50 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:Vuc never made sense for Chicago to me. Perhaps that is the issue here?

This really doesn’t have to be a polarizing argument about individual players. In the end, how effective a player will be for a team truly does depend in many ways on how well they fit into the system that team runs. I just never understood why Vuc was the guy Chicago wanted to sell out for. It fully makes sense to me why he isn’t fitting in well there statistically.


I thought it was weird too.

They already didn’t necessarily have the floor spacing with guys like DeRozen and Lavine as their focal offense. Adding Vuc just seemed like a paint clogging party.

They probably expected Vicevic to be more of a floor spacer on offense, after all he shot 40% from 3 in his last season for the Magic on a pretty big volume, but for whatever reason his 3 point shot has been terrible this year.
Mo career 350% from 3, Vuc 349%. I've seen a few posters here insist Mo was a bad three point shooter and claim Vuc was a good shooter when he was here.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1982 » by Skybox » Fri Apr 8, 2022 12:24 pm

I'm just going to try to box up this season with an observation...
-It's really hard to assess a player's trajectory in such a garbage dysfunctional situation...NO legit PG leadership on the floor, NO player hierarchy at all (nobody has authority or earned respect-just a bunch of kids having fun), and a very clear tanking message. I'm just not ready to be too critical of Suggs yet. Franz excelled in this mess, but that also doesn't guarantee equivalent success in a good situation (although all indications are he might be even better on a good, unselfish team-perhaps even star-level). WCJ looked great most of the season but there has to be fair assessment of his projected continued improvement - I've come around on him but I'd still consider moving him if our (likely) PF draft pick made a less-than perfect fit with WCJ (factor Isaac in to that too-if he's going to be a factor). Right now, RJ, IMO, should come back as our 12th man- I'd even consider Carter-Williams as an upgrade in that role if the coaching staff doesn't know better-he, in particular, seems like a guy who needs a vet to show him how to harness his gifts-but I think his ceiling is no longer high.

I really hope the FO is taking a real hard, more urgent & definitive look this offseason. I think there needs to be some addition by subtraction based on the effect some players have on the team (might include off court too). Obviously, I'm assuming they have a better understanding of Isaac's likelihood of full recovery -than any of us. I don't think sitting him out is necessarily an indication that he couldn't play limited minutes - might've just been "why?". Mission accomplished, we should have a very high pick and a couple of high seconds. We also have the CHI and DEN picks, TRoss' expiring deal, and a lot of cap space to work with.

First, I think they'll aggressively work on re-signing Bamba to a team-friendly deal. If he or his agent are delusional, let him test the market and, if necessary wave goodbye. He's shown enough to contend for, at least, an important role, even if off the bench. Next, I'd turn my attention to Cole...and move him for the best available return. I don't want to see him here post-tank. They must have some vision of what their PG of the near future is - Suggs or Fultz? I'd bring back Gary Harris on a 2yr or less deal, but ONLY if we can't utilize the cap space as part of a bigger deal that lands us a younger better SG. We draft the best player at our slot, regardless of position and then hit the trade market to re-form around the guys determined to be "core"...I think at that point the idea of tanking AGAIN would be foolish, so making trades for guys as old as 27 or 28 shouldn't be unthinkable, if they are the right guys for the team. We'll need that leadership and talent infusion to take that next step. BBIQ, mindset, and chemistry should guide every evaluation (and talent, of course). I think the 2nds should really be spent on snipers to fill out the roster. The more shooting on the roster, the better, but particularly among the "filler" of the roster. Maybe we uncover the next Duncan Robinson, Steve Novak, or Dell Curry...those specialists are rarely found at the top of the draft.

Pull the trigger WeHam, I want to assume there's been some sort of vision for this team and coaching staff...you can't deny that they have many options in front of them this offseason. It's also an offseason where few other teams have so much flexibility, so we can be a part of any big deals that happen among teams with different timelines, etc and quietly assemble something with great potential to make a jump...look at PHO just a couple of years ago...great picks, great vets, great coaching = a huge jump.

A great scenario would be trade our '23 as a very high value pick...knowing that we're about to make another move that will likely keep us out of the lottery for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1983 » by 3ddman23 » Fri Apr 8, 2022 4:44 pm

Is anyone else amazed at how easily franz is getting dismissed in the rookie of year talks? I mean this guy has arguably been the most consistent rookie all season long when you factor everything( raw stats, advanced stats, health, defense, etc)

You look everywhere and there is literally no talk about him its all Cade, Mobley and Barnes. To me he is way closer( if not better) to them then they are making it seem. It's blowing my mind
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1984 » by Skybox » Fri Apr 8, 2022 5:26 pm

3ddman23 wrote:Is anyone else amazed at how easily franz is getting dismissed in the rookie of year talks? I mean this guy has arguably been the most consistent rookie all season long when you factor everything( raw stats, advanced stats, health, defense, etc)

You look everywhere and there is literally no talk about him its all Cade, Mobley and Barnes. To me he is way closer( if not better) to them then they are making it seem. It's blowing my mind


I'm repeating myself (as usual-sorry) but I honestly think Cole's lack of management skills and ball-dominance had a big part in that. There was an early stretch where Franz had the ball in his hands and was doing it all. I would propose, "What is Cade offering that is so much different than Franz?"...if Franz had Cade's green light and the ball in his hands all season, he'd be ROY or certainly right in the mix. Franz has been steady but unspectacular for most of the season, but that early glimpse of what he can be is still stuck in our heads...FREE FRANZ!
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1985 » by JTG_92940618 » Sat Apr 9, 2022 12:38 am

I note that Franz has the 3rd highest RAPTOR of any rookie after Herb Jones and Austin Reaves, both of whom are over 23.

Next is Bones Hyland who has half the minutes of Franz (similar to Austin Reaves) but is about the same age; and then at 5th, you have Scottie Barnes.

6th is another older rookie - Chris Duarte and 7th is our very own Jalen Suggs.

Then tied at 8th - Cunningham and Mobley - the other contenders for ROY.

I would say RAPTOR likes us and certainly helps highlight Franz's case.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1986 » by drsd » Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:53 pm

Assuming the Magic lose the Heat match-up, Orlando will finish divisional play at 2-14. The South East looks tough next year as well.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1987 » by VFX » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:16 pm

DiVincenzo is unhappy with the Kings. I think he could be worth a shot to acquire in free agency for cheap if Orlando let’s go of some other vets.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1988 » by Skybox » Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:05 pm

MagicMatic wrote:DiVincenzo is unhappy with the Kings. I think he could be worth a shot to acquire in free agency for cheap if Orlando let’s go of some other vets.


I'm a fan of his, although I don't know how big a role he's really up to taking on...maybe it's a sign and trade for one of our young "stars" like RJ or Cole (maybe even get a little more back for Cole despite their having Mitchell and Fox). Not sure I'd give up Bamba for DDV, unless Mo made it clear he wants out. I've always liked DDV and any Villanova versatile, heady, tough winners like him but he's struggled since his injury and he's not as tall as I thought...still want him, just not sure how much of a role he'll get.

He could be a Harris replacement, if Harris wants too much or wants a contender (I could def see a DEN reunion).
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1989 » by VFX » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:05 pm

Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:DiVincenzo is unhappy with the Kings. I think he could be worth a shot to acquire in free agency for cheap if Orlando let’s go of some other vets.


I'm a fan of his, although I don't know how big a role he's really up to taking on...maybe it's a sign and trade for one of our young "stars" like RJ or Cole (maybe even get a little more back for Cole despite their having Mitchell and Fox). Not sure I'd give up Bamba for DDV, unless Mo made it clear he wants out. I've always liked DDV and any Villanova versatile, heady, tough winners like him but he's struggled since his injury and he's not as tall as I thought...still want him, just not sure how much of a role he'll get.

He could be a Harris replacement, if Harris wants too much or wants a contender (I could def see a DEN reunion).


Yeah, obviously I would only suggest him if Orlando moves on from Harris and doesn’t add another guard in the draft. He fits the timeline and has some potential left in him.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1990 » by tiderulz » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:41 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:DiVincenzo is unhappy with the Kings. I think he could be worth a shot to acquire in free agency for cheap if Orlando let’s go of some other vets.


I'm a fan of his, although I don't know how big a role he's really up to taking on...maybe it's a sign and trade for one of our young "stars" like RJ or Cole (maybe even get a little more back for Cole despite their having Mitchell and Fox). Not sure I'd give up Bamba for DDV, unless Mo made it clear he wants out. I've always liked DDV and any Villanova versatile, heady, tough winners like him but he's struggled since his injury and he's not as tall as I thought...still want him, just not sure how much of a role he'll get.

He could be a Harris replacement, if Harris wants too much or wants a contender (I could def see a DEN reunion).


Yeah, obviously I would only suggest him if Orlando moves on from Harris and doesn’t add another guard in the draft. He fits the timeline and has some potential left in him.

never really that impressed with him. 6'4 SG with inconsistent 3 pt shoot, not an overall good shooter, not a great defender. I mean, as long as it is a low contract for a bench role, then its better than a scrub.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1991 » by VFX » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:05 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Skybox wrote:
I'm a fan of his, although I don't know how big a role he's really up to taking on...maybe it's a sign and trade for one of our young "stars" like RJ or Cole (maybe even get a little more back for Cole despite their having Mitchell and Fox). Not sure I'd give up Bamba for DDV, unless Mo made it clear he wants out. I've always liked DDV and any Villanova versatile, heady, tough winners like him but he's struggled since his injury and he's not as tall as I thought...still want him, just not sure how much of a role he'll get.

He could be a Harris replacement, if Harris wants too much or wants a contender (I could def see a DEN reunion).


Yeah, obviously I would only suggest him if Orlando moves on from Harris and doesn’t add another guard in the draft. He fits the timeline and has some potential left in him.

never really that impressed with him. 6'4 SG with inconsistent 3 pt shoot, not an overall good shooter, not a great defender. I mean, as long as it is a low contract for a bench role, then its better than a scrub.


Orlando isn’t going to be adding anyone ‘impressive’.

Getting guys sub 26 years old with a new situation/opportunity should be who they are are looking for in free agency along with bench vets.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1992 » by RookieStar » Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:22 pm

I just want this requirement if we add a "vet" player in FA.. THAT is they don't consider themselves the "superstar" in this young upcoming will-struggle team and hijack shots from our young guns. None of that Cole-mentality shtick.

If Donte, who is reportedly unhappy with SAC, will be happy here with that role... then why not.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1993 » by Knightro » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:18 pm

Read on Twitter


Sounds like Ross is ready for a trade.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1994 » by Howard Mass » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:27 pm

Knightro wrote:
Read on Twitter


Sounds like Ross is ready for a trade.


This should be it's own topic although he did some Twitter activity before that indicated this.

This thread is also now 100 pages.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1995 » by basketballRob » Sat May 7, 2022 11:53 pm

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1996 » by pepe1991 » Mon May 9, 2022 4:19 pm

RIP Adriean Payne
32 years old my God that's young. Not sure what happend.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1997 » by KokoKaizer » Mon May 9, 2022 6:37 pm

pepe1991 wrote:RIP Adriean Payne
32 years old my God that's young. Not sure what happend.


He was killed by a gun
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1998 » by RookieStar » Mon May 9, 2022 8:55 pm

KokoKaizer wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:RIP Adriean Payne
32 years old my God that's young. Not sure what happend.


He was killed by a gun


Really? Accident or deliberate?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#1999 » by Xatticus » Mon May 9, 2022 10:26 pm

RookieStar wrote:
KokoKaizer wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:RIP Adriean Payne
32 years old my God that's young. Not sure what happend.


He was killed by a gun


Really? Accident or deliberate?


Someone was arrested, though I don't know that we can safely assume that it answers your question.

Payne was released by Orlando after it became public knowledge that he, along with a teammate, raped someone while at Michigan St.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0 

Post#2000 » by SOUL » Mon May 9, 2022 10:41 pm

Xatticus wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
KokoKaizer wrote:
He was killed by a gun


Really? Accident or deliberate?


Someone was arrested, though I don't know that we can safely assume that it answers your question.

Payne was released by Orlando after it became public knowledge that he, along with a teammate, raped someone while at Michigan St.


That teammate was Keith Appling who was also on the Magic at some point interestingly enough, and who is in jail for killing a man last year I think.

But yeah, condolences to his family. I won't speak about his character or personal thoughts on him.
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