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Warriorfan wrote:You remember the teams whose seasons
end in championships not the teams with best records during the regular season.
pr0wler wrote:Great impact, sure. But for 2/4 of those seasons, he wasn't even the best player on the team. Hard to suggest he "led" each of those franchises to record setting seasons.
Pennebaker wrote:And Bird did it while being a defensive liability. But he also made All-Defensive teams, which was another controversial issue regarding Bird and votes.
SpreeS wrote:Mrakar wrote:Shock Defeat wrote:Before CP3 got there the Rockets were already a 55 win team
And they were not close to being a real contender...
With Paul they were 2nd best team in the league, and if not for the best team in history of NBA they would probably be a 2 time NBA champs....
No no no. You could say about Malone/Stockton if not Jordan super team, they would be 2 time champs…Paul had huge opportunity to win both years against GSW, but got injured and choked after KD injury.
Mrakar wrote:SpreeS wrote:Mrakar wrote:And they were not close to being a real contender...
With Paul they were 2nd best team in the league, and if not for the best team in history of NBA they would probably be a 2 time NBA champs....
No no no. You could say about Malone/Stockton if not Jordan super team, they would be 2 time champs…Paul had huge opportunity to win both years against GSW, but got injured and choked after KD injury.
What does has to do with my comment that he was more important player then Harden on that team?
It is easy to comment from GSW position because every argument ends in "We won, they lost, stfu,...".
I didnt say Paul is better than Curry or Rockets were better than Warriors, it is totally different discussion that you interrupted with average Paul hater comment "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes "...
hardenASG13 wrote:hat about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
Doc is not terrible, maybe some overrated him, though most don't now. He was worse in the President role than the coach role.Woodsanity wrote:What has guys like Blake and DJ done after they left CP? Also Doc Rivers was a terrible coach so that didnt help either.
hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:SpreeS wrote:
No no no. You could say about Malone/Stockton if not Jordan super team, they would be 2 time champs…Paul had huge opportunity to win both years against GSW, but got injured and choked after KD injury.
What does has to do with my comment that he was more important player then Harden on that team?
It is easy to comment from GSW position because every argument ends in "We won, they lost, stfu,...".
I didnt say Paul is better than Curry or Rockets were better than Warriors, it is totally different discussion that you interrupted with average Paul hater comment "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes "...
What about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
Lost92Bricks wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:hat about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
You're pointing fingers at the wrong player.
Griffin is the one who was overrated, not Paul. Griffin is not really a winning player. He has done nothing in the playoffs. He has a losing record without CP3 in the regular season.
CP3 carried the Clippers and made them a top team in the west.
Yuri Vaultin wrote:That's good.
But legends aren't made in the regular season.
hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:SpreeS wrote:
No no no. You could say about Malone/Stockton if not Jordan super team, they would be 2 time champs…Paul had huge opportunity to win both years against GSW, but got injured and choked after KD injury.
What does has to do with my comment that he was more important player then Harden on that team?
It is easy to comment from GSW position because every argument ends in "We won, they lost, stfu,...".
I didnt say Paul is better than Curry or Rockets were better than Warriors, it is totally different discussion that you interrupted with average Paul hater comment "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes "...
What about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
Man has basketball skills of a stump...Mrakar wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:What does has to do with my comment that he was more important player then Harden on that team?
It is easy to comment from GSW position because every argument ends in "We won, they lost, stfu,...".
I didnt say Paul is better than Curry or Rockets were better than Warriors, it is totally different discussion that you interrupted with average Paul hater comment "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes "...
What about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
They played against Utah with lineup of Paul/Rivers/Redick/Mbah a Moute/Jordan. And you call them stacked?
You can see what Blake and Deandre became after Paul left the Clippers...
Griffin was injured even more than CP3 was. Those good shooters that you call them were only good shooters because Paul set them perfectly 90% of the time(except JJ, he was really good). You can listen do Blake Griffin and JJ Redick podcasts (and some other with JJ) where they say how everything worked like well oiled machine because of CP3. Those teams were only good bcs of CP and couldn't reach potential because they were always injured (except Rockets series, that series should be rememberd as only choke series and not Jazz as u say...).
Paul made Deandre Jordan into all-nba 1st team player...
That OKC team was predicted to be bottom 5 team in the league. And they would be even better if they let CP play. Untill last third of the season they didn't let him play a lot of minutes because they wanted to tank, and you can see on/off stats in that part of the season.
SGA, Adams, Gallo and Schroder didn't have their best seasons because "that just happens', they had their best seasons because they played with CP. You saw what happened with Schroder when he is just put into a lineup of good players, especially with Lebron who doesn't care where you like your shots and other stuff...
AussieRules wrote:Lost92Bricks wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:hat about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
You're pointing fingers at the wrong player.
Griffin is the one who was overrated, not Paul. Griffin is not really a winning player. He has done nothing in the playoffs. He has a losing record without CP3 in the regular season.
CP3 carried the Clippers and made them a top team in the west.
Absolutely, the fact that people thought those LAC teams were title contenders is a testament to CP3’s greatness. Neither Blake or DJ not Redick could create their own shots. That team was a one man team in every sense of the word, the one man just happened to be a Point God. The best to ever do it, after magic
og15 wrote:Doc is not terrible, maybe some overrated him, though most don't now. He was worse in the President role than the coach role.Woodsanity wrote:What has guys like Blake and DJ done after they left CP? Also Doc Rivers was a terrible coach so that didnt help either.
Blake had even more injuries than Paul, so that made it tough. Blake's injuries:
12-13 Playoffs: Ankle, limited minutes game 5 and 6
15-16: Quad injury, broke hand on trainer, re-injured quad game 4
16-17: Broke foot right before half time of game 3
18-19: Knee injury
19-20: Knee injuryhardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:What does has to do with my comment that he was more important player then Harden on that team?
It is easy to comment from GSW position because every argument ends in "We won, they lost, stfu,...".
I didnt say Paul is better than Curry or Rockets were better than Warriors, it is totally different discussion that you interrupted with average Paul hater comment "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes "...
What about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
Clippers were stacked? So stacked they started Matt Barnes and had no other wing player or reliable backup big men off the bench? Clippers used Jamal as a SF because the other options were not reliable. Jamal Crawford always had trouble with playoffs defense, in the regular season he was a net zero player, but in the post-season when his scoring was neutralized of made very inefficiency he was a negative. He was still able to be efficient and shoot well from outside in the regular season in 12-13 and 13-14, but by 14-15, he wasn't even an efficient regular season player, his 3PT% was down to 32.7%, and he shot 24.3% 3PT in the playoffs. The most reliable 3rd big in their healthy seasons (13-14 and 14-15) was Glen Davis and one of those seasons he was even playing with an injured ankle in the post-season. What kind of definition of stacked are we using here?
They were only stacked if someone values the highest PPG off the bench (6th man) award as something that translates into winning. In 13-14 they had some ball handling and playmaking off the bench with Collison, but their depth was destroyed by the fact that Dudley was fat and injured all season and out of the rotation in the playoffs. When the playoffs came they had one SF in the rotation and 30 year old post-injury Granger was the last resort second option. Dudley who was supposed to be the starter in the beginning of the season played 45 total player minutes and 7/13 games.
By 14-15, they were an extremely top heavy roster lacking in rotation big men, lacking in shooting (they didn't have shooters, they had a shooter, Redick, teams played off Barnes daring him to beat them with his open corner three's), and who played 22 year old Austin Rivers 18 mpg in the 2015 playoffs as their 7th man. You sure you were watching the same team, or were you just looking at names and saw guys like Grant Hill, Turkoglu, Granger, etc and forgot what year it was and what those players status' were at the time?
Did reasonable people actually think that a team with this wing rotation: Redick/Barnes (34)/Crawford(34) and these top 3 players off the bench Crawford, Rivers, G.Davis was stacked? We have a thread where people are saying Austin Rivers after he has further developed and gotten better is a 10-11th man, but a team that had such poor depth that a worse version of him was their 7th man IN THE PLAYOFFS is stacked?
Also the 07-08 Hornets lost to the Spurs in 7 games in the 2nd round, both teams blew each other out at home and it came down to game 7. The Spurs took Bowen off Paul early in the series and glued him onto Peja, neutralizing him, and the Hornets had no secondary ball handler or playmaker, hence why Pargo became an important player, because if you load up on Paul, then who else will make plays? David West was solid, but not a playmaker.
You're really bad on your history. Blake had a foot injury at half time of game 3 vs Utah. Hayward got hurt in game 4, he came back for games 5-7 and averaged 28/8/4 in those games, lol, he didn't "get hurt" the same way Blake got hurt.
Don't lump Blake in there please, Blake was great. The team was top heavy with a top guy who had limited skills (DJ), had too many injuries, poor depth and poor wings.AussieRules wrote:Lost92Bricks wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:hat about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
You're pointing fingers at the wrong player.
Griffin is the one who was overrated, not Paul. Griffin is not really a winning player. He has done nothing in the playoffs. He has a losing record without CP3 in the regular season.
CP3 carried the Clippers and made them a top team in the west.
Absolutely, the fact that people thought those LAC teams were title contenders is a testament to CP3’s greatness. Neither Blake or DJ not Redick could create their own shots. That team was a one man team in every sense of the word, the one man just happened to be a Point God. The best to ever do it, after magic
hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:
What about your "hater comment," stating "he is always injured and when he is not he chokes," isnt true? As posters above have pointed out, he misses large portions of two of those 4 years he is getting credit for here.
His LAC teams were stacked, Griffin was widely regarded as a top 10 player in his time there, and that team had good shooters around them as well as one of the best rim running centers in the league. Couldnt make the conference finals. The year they lost to Utah in the first round, when blake got hurt along w Utahs best player, gordon hayward, CP3 looked like he was about to cry when he choked in game 7. I had a big thread about it leading up to that choke job calling him overrated. It got merged to the series thread the second after he lost, again, because basically everyone in there was saying how good he was.
The OKC team he was credited so much for (leading them to a first round loss, the same thing Russ gets criticized for) had SGA, Gallinari,Adams, as well as schroeder in arguably his best year. Shouldnt they have done about what they did (6 seed,lose in first round)? He gets all this credit in phoenix, who are clearly fine without him and were on an obvious upswing before his arrival. The new orleans team hes credited for on here was a top seed, lost first round.
They played against Utah with lineup of Paul/Rivers/Redick/Mbah a Moute/Jordan. And you call them stacked?
You can see what Blake and Deandre became after Paul left the Clippers...
Griffin was injured even more than CP3 was. Those good shooters that you call them were only good shooters because Paul set them perfectly 90% of the time(except JJ, he was really good). You can listen do Blake Griffin and JJ Redick podcasts (and some other with JJ) where they say how everything worked like well oiled machine because of CP3. Those teams were only good bcs of CP and couldn't reach potential because they were always injured (except Rockets series, that series should be rememberd as only choke series and not Jazz as u say...).
Paul made Deandre Jordan into all-nba 1st team player...
That OKC team was predicted to be bottom 5 team in the league. And they would be even better if they let CP play. Untill last third of the season they didn't let him play a lot of minutes because they wanted to tank, and you can see on/off stats in that part of the season.
SGA, Adams, Gallo and Schroder didn't have their best seasons because "that just happens', they had their best seasons because they played with CP. You saw what happened with Schroder when he is just put into a lineup of good players, especially with Lebron who doesn't care where you like your shots and other stuff...
Deny it if you want, but those clippers teams had more than enough talent to advance far in the playoffs, if CP3 was some all time great talent like those hear suggest. Of course he made things work for them, he was their best player!
Year by year:
11/12: they go 40-26 in a shortened year. 6 players average double figures (griffin (21), cp3 (20), Billups (15, only plays 20 games tho), Mo williams (13) caron butler (12) and Foye (11). Nick young comes close with 9.7ppg. They beat memphis round 1, get swepped in round 2 by spurs.
12/13: they go 56-26, 5 players average double figures (griffin(18ppg)CP3(17),crawford (16) Barnes (10) and caron butler (10). Team also had young deandre (8.8ppg) bledsoe(8.5ppg), and willie green playing significant minutes, lost first round to memphis.
13/14: They go 57-25. 6 players average double figures (Blake at 24 ppg, CP3 (19), crawford (18), redick (15), Darren collison (11) and Jordan (10). They also have barnes at 9.9ppg, Granger at 8ppg, and dudley 7ppg. Lose 2nd round as favories to OKC (vs true superstars and who also started perkins and thabo). Westbrook wears out paul and outplays him in the series.
14/15: They go 56-26. 6 players again average double figures, again led by Griffin at (22ppg), CP3 (19), Redick (16), Crawford (16), jordan (11), Barnes (10). They actually beat the spurs this year in round one! Then comically choke vs. Houston and lose round 2.
15/16: They go 53-29. 6 players again average double figures. Once again led by Blake (21ppg), Cp3 (19), redick (16), crawford (14), jordan (12) and Jeff green (11). Rivers averages 9ppg as well. Blake and CP3 get hurt round 1, they lose to portland.
16/17: They go 51-31. 6 players average double figures, Blake (22), Cp3(18), reddick 15, crawford 12, rivers 12, and jordan 13. They lose first round to Utah, led by Hayward and Joe Johnson. Blake gets hurt in the series.
As you can see, the Narrative they didnt have shooter is a myth/excuse. They had multiple role players who could score each year, often having 6 players average double figures and a teammate for CP3 in Blake who consistently averaged over 20 ppg! If CP3 is this all time great talent he is supposed to be, thats more than enough talent to make 1 conference Finals! Blake was regarded as a top 10 player a few of those years.
Yes that OKC team was projected to be bad. People thought CP3 was done. But OKC, a playoff team the year before, swapped a declining russ for Cp3, and Paul george for SGA and Gallo. It wasnt some miracle they made the playoffs again. And SGA, Adams, and Gallo didnt have their best seasons playing with him, not sure where that comes from, only schroeder did and it didnt have to do with CP3. If CP3 is this all time great, that team shouldve reached the playoffs, they werent a bunch of scrubs. Lost first round.
Maybe its just me, but most guys i consider all time greats wouldve achieved more with all CP3 had around him.
Mrakar wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:They played against Utah with lineup of Paul/Rivers/Redick/Mbah a Moute/Jordan. And you call them stacked?
You can see what Blake and Deandre became after Paul left the Clippers...
Griffin was injured even more than CP3 was. Those good shooters that you call them were only good shooters because Paul set them perfectly 90% of the time(except JJ, he was really good). You can listen do Blake Griffin and JJ Redick podcasts (and some other with JJ) where they say how everything worked like well oiled machine because of CP3. Those teams were only good bcs of CP and couldn't reach potential because they were always injured (except Rockets series, that series should be rememberd as only choke series and not Jazz as u say...).
Paul made Deandre Jordan into all-nba 1st team player...
That OKC team was predicted to be bottom 5 team in the league. And they would be even better if they let CP play. Untill last third of the season they didn't let him play a lot of minutes because they wanted to tank, and you can see on/off stats in that part of the season.
SGA, Adams, Gallo and Schroder didn't have their best seasons because "that just happens', they had their best seasons because they played with CP. You saw what happened with Schroder when he is just put into a lineup of good players, especially with Lebron who doesn't care where you like your shots and other stuff...
Deny it if you want, but those clippers teams had more than enough talent to advance far in the playoffs, if CP3 was some all time great talent like those hear suggest. Of course he made things work for them, he was their best player!
Year by year:
11/12: they go 40-26 in a shortened year. 6 players average double figures (griffin (21), cp3 (20), Billups (15, only plays 20 games tho), Mo williams (13) caron butler (12) and Foye (11). Nick young comes close with 9.7ppg. They beat memphis round 1, get swepped in round 2 by spurs.
12/13: they go 56-26, 5 players average double figures (griffin(18ppg)CP3(17),crawford (16) Barnes (10) and caron butler (10). Team also had young deandre (8.8ppg) bledsoe(8.5ppg), and willie green playing significant minutes, lost first round to memphis.
13/14: They go 57-25. 6 players average double figures (Blake at 24 ppg, CP3 (19), crawford (18), redick (15), Darren collison (11) and Jordan (10). They also have barnes at 9.9ppg, Granger at 8ppg, and dudley 7ppg. Lose 2nd round as favories to OKC (vs true superstars and who also started perkins and thabo). Westbrook wears out paul and outplays him in the series.
14/15: They go 56-26. 6 players again average double figures, again led by Griffin at (22ppg), CP3 (19), Redick (16), Crawford (16), jordan (11), Barnes (10). They actually beat the spurs this year in round one! Then comically choke vs. Houston and lose round 2.
15/16: They go 53-29. 6 players again average double figures. Once again led by Blake (21ppg), Cp3 (19), redick (16), crawford (14), jordan (12) and Jeff green (11). Rivers averages 9ppg as well. Blake and CP3 get hurt round 1, they lose to portland.
16/17: They go 51-31. 6 players average double figures, Blake (22), Cp3(18), reddick 15, crawford 12, rivers 12, and jordan 13. They lose first round to Utah, led by Hayward and Joe Johnson. Blake gets hurt in the series.
As you can see, the Narrative they didnt have shooter is a myth/excuse. They had multiple role players who could score each year, often having 6 players average double figures and a teammate for CP3 in Blake who consistently averaged over 20 ppg! If CP3 is this all time great talent he is supposed to be, thats more than enough talent to make 1 conference Finals! Blake was regarded as a top 10 player a few of those years.
Yes that OKC team was projected to be bad. People thought CP3 was done. But OKC, a playoff team the year before, swapped a declining russ for Cp3, and Paul george for SGA and Gallo. It wasnt some miracle they made the playoffs again. And SGA, Adams, and Gallo didnt have their best seasons playing with him, not sure where that comes from, only schroeder did and it didnt have to do with CP3. If CP3 is this all time great, that team shouldve reached the playoffs, they werent a bunch of scrubs. Lost first round.
Maybe its just me, but most guys i consider all time greats wouldve achieved more with all CP3 had around him.
Only series from those that u mentioned they should have won considering all the stuff going on is Houston series and i said that also. That was quite (Please Use More Appropriate Word) series that also featured Rockets destroying Clippers with their best player (harden) on the bench and that is a stain on CP's career for sure.
It is easy for you to make all those arguments because he never won. It is always easier to make an argument from "an above position". But it is the fact that those teams were not that good as you think they are. They only once had championship odds better as +1000 and in some of those they had worse odds than +2000.
They lost to the Spurs in 2011-2012 who were clearly better and more experienced team.
Next year they lost to Grizzliers who were really good team and went to WCF and lost to the Spurs who should be champs if not for that Ray Allen shot. Also Griffin was of course injured last 2 games and even though he tried to play trough injure he couldn't do it.
The series against Thunder Paul played good with 23/12/4/2.5 but people like you will only remember one lost ball even though they wouldn't be even close without him.
14/15 they won against Spurs who were favourites and Paul played one one leg and scored game 7 game winner on ONE LEG.
Then they had a collapse against Rockets that i already talked about. I still don't know how they lost it since Blake and Paul played quite well in last 2 games. But i guess that amazing supporting cast that you are talking about failed. But still there is no excuses for this one, they should have one with one hand tied behind their backs...
15-16 Both blake and CP injured
16-17 Blake injured and that team didn't have right feeling from the start since everyone knew it is the end...
No1 gave those rockets team a chance from the start. People questioned the fit. Paul made Harden play defense (that's why Harden made Morey to trade Paul at the end). They almost beat best team in history of basketball while no1 else, not even great Lebron James, was even close to beating them(when healthy).
Then he destroys Prestie's tank job by willing that OKC team into playoffs and almost beating heavily favoured Rockets team.
Then he makes his first finals with Suns(no1 expected them to go trough first round) when luck finally favoured him instead of opponent.
It would be easy for me to say they were most overachieving team last season since they made the finals and before season started they were not even in top 6 teams in the West. But i have to be honest and say they had some luck on the way.
Same whey as he didn't have luck for most of his career (mostly with injuries), but people like you will look it that way, u are just saying he didn't win anything...
But im not wasting anymore time. You are saying that OKC team didn't overachieve, that is enough for me to know with who im dealing with. It is always easy to hate on people that didn't win, but it is not always just their mistake. I just hope he can stay healthy this year so we can witness one more great run and enjoy it.
I'm out.
hardenASG13 wrote:See my post above. Your statement is a joke. They were loaded, and far from a 1 man team. Blake could absolutely create his own shot.
hardenASG13 wrote:Mrakar wrote:hardenASG13 wrote:
Deny it if you want, but those clippers teams had more than enough talent to advance far in the playoffs, if CP3 was some all time great talent like those hear suggest. Of course he made things work for them, he was their best player!
Year by year:
11/12: they go 40-26 in a shortened year. 6 players average double figures (griffin (21), cp3 (20), Billups (15, only plays 20 games tho), Mo williams (13) caron butler (12) and Foye (11). Nick young comes close with 9.7ppg. They beat memphis round 1, get swepped in round 2 by spurs.
12/13: they go 56-26, 5 players average double figures (griffin(18ppg)CP3(17),crawford (16) Barnes (10) and caron butler (10). Team also had young deandre (8.8ppg) bledsoe(8.5ppg), and willie green playing significant minutes, lost first round to memphis.
13/14: They go 57-25. 6 players average double figures (Blake at 24 ppg, CP3 (19), crawford (18), redick (15), Darren collison (11) and Jordan (10). They also have barnes at 9.9ppg, Granger at 8ppg, and dudley 7ppg. Lose 2nd round as favories to OKC (vs true superstars and who also started perkins and thabo). Westbrook wears out paul and outplays him in the series.
14/15: They go 56-26. 6 players again average double figures, again led by Griffin at (22ppg), CP3 (19), Redick (16), Crawford (16), jordan (11), Barnes (10). They actually beat the spurs this year in round one! Then comically choke vs. Houston and lose round 2.
15/16: They go 53-29. 6 players again average double figures. Once again led by Blake (21ppg), Cp3 (19), redick (16), crawford (14), jordan (12) and Jeff green (11). Rivers averages 9ppg as well. Blake and CP3 get hurt round 1, they lose to portland.
16/17: They go 51-31. 6 players average double figures, Blake (22), Cp3(18), reddick 15, crawford 12, rivers 12, and jordan 13. They lose first round to Utah, led by Hayward and Joe Johnson. Blake gets hurt in the series.
As you can see, the Narrative they didnt have shooter is a myth/excuse. They had multiple role players who could score each year, often having 6 players average double figures and a teammate for CP3 in Blake who consistently averaged over 20 ppg! If CP3 is this all time great talent he is supposed to be, thats more than enough talent to make 1 conference Finals! Blake was regarded as a top 10 player a few of those years.
Yes that OKC team was projected to be bad. People thought CP3 was done. But OKC, a playoff team the year before, swapped a declining russ for Cp3, and Paul george for SGA and Gallo. It wasnt some miracle they made the playoffs again. And SGA, Adams, and Gallo didnt have their best seasons playing with him, not sure where that comes from, only schroeder did and it didnt have to do with CP3. If CP3 is this all time great, that team shouldve reached the playoffs, they werent a bunch of scrubs. Lost first round.
Maybe its just me, but most guys i consider all time greats wouldve achieved more with all CP3 had around him.
Only series from those that u mentioned they should have won considering all the stuff going on is Houston series and i said that also. That was quite (Please Use More Appropriate Word) series that also featured Rockets destroying Clippers with their best player (harden) on the bench and that is a stain on CP's career for sure.
It is easy for you to make all those arguments because he never won. It is always easier to make an argument from "an above position". But it is the fact that those teams were not that good as you think they are. They only once had championship odds better as +1000 and in some of those they had worse odds than +2000.
They lost to the Spurs in 2011-2012 who were clearly better and more experienced team.
Next year they lost to Grizzliers who were really good team and went to WCF and lost to the Spurs who should be champs if not for that Ray Allen shot. Also Griffin was of course injured last 2 games and even though he tried to play trough injure he couldn't do it.
The series against Thunder Paul played good with 23/12/4/2.5 but people like you will only remember one lost ball even though they wouldn't be even close without him.
14/15 they won against Spurs who were favourites and Paul played one one leg and scored game 7 game winner on ONE LEG.
Then they had a collapse against Rockets that i already talked about. I still don't know how they lost it since Blake and Paul played quite well in last 2 games. But i guess that amazing supporting cast that you are talking about failed. But still there is no excuses for this one, they should have one with one hand tied behind their backs...
15-16 Both blake and CP injured
16-17 Blake injured and that team didn't have right feeling from the start since everyone knew it is the end...
No1 gave those rockets team a chance from the start. People questioned the fit. Paul made Harden play defense (that's why Harden made Morey to trade Paul at the end). They almost beat best team in history of basketball while no1 else, not even great Lebron James, was even close to beating them(when healthy).
Then he destroys Prestie's tank job by willing that OKC team into playoffs and almost beating heavily favoured Rockets team.
Then he makes his first finals with Suns(no1 expected them to go trough first round) when luck finally favoured him instead of opponent.
It would be easy for me to say they were most overachieving team last season since they made the finals and before season started they were not even in top 6 teams in the West. But i have to be honest and say they had some luck on the way.
Same whey as he didn't have luck for most of his career (mostly with injuries), but people like you will look it that way, u are just saying he didn't win anything...
But im not wasting anymore time. You are saying that OKC team didn't overachieve, that is enough for me to know with who im dealing with. It is always easy to hate on people that didn't win, but it is not always just their mistake. I just hope he can stay healthy this year so we can witness one more great run and enjoy it.
I'm out.
Ok, run away then. Ive clearly dispelled the notion he didnt have talent around him with the clips, with 6 guys averaging double figures and a 21 plus ppg scorer in Blake. The Grizzlies team they lost to were good, but got to the WCF because they beat a westbrook less OKC team in the second round, and those OKC teams were extremely top heavy with a joke at center and no bench. Way more so than LAC, actually. Just had better stars and more success. They proved that in beating the higher seedes clips the next year. Thanks for telling me what i remember from that series (one of CP3s great choke moments), but westbrook physically dominating him and taking over the second half at the the FT in the elimination game was my main takeaway.
Lol nobody gave the Houston teams, who were already very good a chance from the start? Whos delusional here? And yes, i stand by the notion OKC didnt overachieve. They were projected poorly because people though CP3 was done.He wasnt, and started every game. Again they were a playoff team the year before, and swapped a decling russ for CP3, and traded Paul George for SGA and Gallo who both averaged around 19ppg, as did schroeder. So they had 4 players averaging over 17.5 when you include their 4th leading scorer, CP3. SGA and gallo were both better players than those projecting OKC to struggle realized. With those being the changes from the previous years thunder, which made the playoffs, why are you so suprised they made the playoffa again? If you disagree make a counter other than "people didnt think they would be good before the season (because they thought CP3 would be injured or traded)." Dont just run away ala CP3 in a close playoff game.