2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[Kameleon]

Evan Mobley is a lock.for ROY.

[Bruin]

This is extremely impressive from Herb Jones.
Just look at how much ground he covered in so little time

Read on Twitter

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[whitehops]

23/7/6 on 48/32/78 in March and ya'll think his ceiling is 2nd option? That IS 2nd option and all star level already and people really think he's going to peak at what he's shown recently? Explosiveness isn't remotely an issue for Cade. He's 6'6 with a long wingspan and gets to wherever he wants on the court already.

There seems to be a big difference on what nba teams think of Cade’s ability and what fans/media do. Fans/media will look at the box score and say “he’s inefficient, bad game” while teams were defending his drives like this:

Read on Twitter

?

The tweet has a thread with teams playing similar coverage on his drives.

Note: this was one of his turnovers last game, he couldn’t get the pass off cleanly and it hit baseline trying to get it to Stewart in the corner. Here is the play.

[Vampirate]

Cade isn't really a floor raiser. He is a nice 2guard prospect, but his creation skill doesn't significantly impact his team above a replacement PG level. His scoring is waaay more advanced than I have given him credit for, but his passing/creation/vision at an level that I was not impressed with pre-draft. Not all passes are created equal, his seem to be on the lower end of the quality spectrum. This is on top of his 1.5 TOV/AST ratio which ranks 2nd to last among guards with over 200 assists this season (only ahead of Suggs). Even Westbrook is at 1.8 TOV/AST. Quality play makers are at 2-3 for the most part.

So far after 80-ish games, I don't see any signs that he is a future superstar level player. A low tier all-star scoring guard is his realistic ceiling in my opinion.

I have Mobley/Barnes > Green/Franz all solidly ahead of him at this point.

I'm a Pistons fan and I agree. Cade just doesn't have the IT factor. He's a good player and would be an amazing second option on a title team but he can't be your best player. He just doesn't have the explosiveness to consistently create against elite teams if they really try and defend him. Dave Bing is not wrong

I think you, dave being, and anyone else with the same sort of take are delusional for trying to put a hard cap on a guy with as much talent as Cade in his 1st season.

23/7/6 on 48/32/78 in March and ya'll think his ceiling is 2nd option? That IS 2nd option and all star level already and people really think he's going to peak at what he's shown recently? Explosiveness isn't remotely an issue for Cade. He's 6'6 with a long wingspan and gets to wherever he wants on the court already.

Going to be honest.

First of all it's silly to put a ceiling on any of the draft picks in year 1.

Second of all, that being said, it's going to be very difficult for any of the draft picks to be real #1 options (like Championship #1), this includes Mobley, Barnes, Green and Cade.

The likeliness of it happening is extremely low. All these players basically need to find a way to become unurardable, exceptional in more than 1 area, and no matter your fandom, the likeliness of that happening is very low.

[lobosloboslobos]

Read on Twitter

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not sure why they used a picture of The Hulk for that tweet

[TheLand13]

I no longer see an argument for Mobley as ROY at this point

[Vampirate]

I no longer see an argument for Mobley as ROY at this point

He really needs to work on his offense, but hypothetically if that materializes, the highest ceiling in the draft.

He's either going to be an good but limited offensive player or as high as a player with the potential of a championship type #1 option.

[TheLand13]

I no longer see an argument for Mobley as ROY at this point

He really needs to work on his offense, but hypothetically if that materializes, the highest ceiling in the draft.

He's either going to be an good but limited offensive player or as high as a player with the potential of a championship type #1 option.

As I’ve said before, once he bulks up, his offense will come along a lot smoother. But yes, there are aspects to his offensive game that are a work in progress.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Has someone here posted the all defense team candidate numbers Mobley has this year that all the media people keep referencing when hailing him ROTY?

Has his defence been that spectacular when he plays?

[LoveMyRaps]

The Ringer's Dan Devine (who is confirmed to have a vote) picked Scottie for ROTY:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2022/4/7/23014604/nba-awards-mvp-giannis-antetokounmpo-nikola-jokic-joel-embiid

[raptor jesus]

I had Mobley as the clear ROTY at the All-Star break, but I think Barnes has surpassed him at this point. Their raw numbers are pretty similar, but when you consider that Barnes did a lot more of his scoring unassisted, I think I'd give him the edge. Barnes has a more apparent edge in terms of advanced numbers go; and if you factor in team success, the edge goes to Barnes as well.

[Triple M]

I'm not sure why winning has become such factor in ROY award. Rookies aren't impacting the wins you think they are especially on teams with all stars and vet players. I think Cade is the best rookie but I think he has done more for his team winning then the other 2 candidates if you want to use winning as a factor.

[Vampirate]

If I had to make a case for Barnes now is that out of all the rookies, he seems like he has the least amount of holes in his game overall, offensively and defensively. His biggest 2 are FT shooting and three point shooting.

There are players that are better than Barnes in 1 category or another, but I don't think there's a rookie that's been as complete a package as Barnes on both sides of the court.

[Tripod]

To me, guys like Cade and Green were just way too far behind Barnes and Mobley all year to all the sudden catch them with late season great play.

Barnes was behind Mobley only because of Mobleys defense. But once Allen got hurt, Mobleys defense fell apart showing how much he was supported by Allen. We also heard how the Cavs were winning and that mattered. Now with them tumbling and the Raps winning, it doesn't.

With Barnes, it was almost the reverse. When Siakam was out, he stepped up. When OG was out, he stepped up. The Raps have a pecking order where Fred and Siakam are the clear 1/2 guys to get their shots and then the 2 "shooters" in GTJ and OG need to get theirs. Barnes defers to them being the rookie because thats what team players do. He rarely gets plays run for him but he finds miltiple ways to impact the game in a winning way.

I think lots of media already had their mind made up by ASG that Mobley was their vote and are not going to change it.

[tmorgan]

Barnes has my hypothetical vote.

[links135]

23/7/6 on 48/32/78 in March and ya'll think his ceiling is 2nd option? That IS 2nd option and all star level already and people really think he's going to peak at what he's shown recently? Explosiveness isn't remotely an issue for Cade. He's 6'6 with a long wingspan and gets to wherever he wants on the court already.

There seems to be a big difference on what nba teams think of Cade’s ability and what fans/media do. Fans/media will look at the box score and say “he’s inefficient, bad game” while teams were defending his drives like this:

Read on Twitter

?

The tweet has a thread with teams playing similar coverage on his drives.

Note: this was one of his turnovers last game, he couldn’t get the pass off cleanly and it hit baseline trying to get it to Stewart in the corner. Here is the play.

I mean yeah attacking middle of the paint as the primary ballhandler off the PNR will do that. Now lets give Cade credit for being a master at the pick and roll already, but attacking the paint on drives like that makes that inevitable.

This is also the downside to driving, you have so much momentum it's more difficult to then read whats going on and react to it in time as you're momentum pushes you forward

Here's the first layup I found of Barnes.



Barnes being 'triple teamed' while driving on a fast break. Now the center fell over on the play before so it's impossible to be surrounded by 5 guys, but even with 3 guys, it's pretty clear they're all too small to actually do anything to Barnes and he ends up making the layup.

Here's another one where Barnes is surrounded by 4 dudes when driving in the middle of the paint (go figure).



The difference with Barnes is even if you hard quadruple team him here, he's clearly big and strong enough to get rid of the ball, in fact he just bumps his man and makes the shot. Like lets not forget, Barnes is legit 6"8, probably 230lb with a nearly 7"3 wingspan, while setting up the play. And even on his misses for layups/hooks, a stupid amount end up as offensive rebounds for himself or a teammate resulting in a bucket for someone anyways.

Which is also why instead of driving in, he prefers to back his man down who's almost surely smaller, even if the center comes over to help, Barnes can still get his shot off and chances are he's making himself miss as opposed to the defence forcing him to miss.

On the other hand, Cade being lighter makes him more explosive and agile, perfect for hesitating off the pick, then exploding towards the basket for a layup before the defence can get there. Then next time he fakes the drive for a step back midrange jimmy.

But I do notice the defence can bother him alot sometimes when driving, just because he's not big and strong enough to shoot over them, which has forced him to come up with all kinds of clever finishes.

But here's what I mean by Barnes just being too big.

Now here's Barnes on a fastbreak with a man back. Dudes close enough to challenge his shot



But we all know dude doesn't even stand a chance of bothering him at all for an effortless layup.



Again, here's Barnes triple teamed with driving on a fast break



And again they're just too small to even bother him as he goes up for the layup and makes it without meeting much resistance.



And I mean that's also the thing about the pick and roll, sure it gives you a lane to attack, but it also naturally sets you up to be double teamed.

Like yeah sure, okay, you're bigger than every point guard. Now there's 4 other positions bigger than you after you beat the PG.

Like Cade's a #1 option no doubt, he runs a team. But i'd still choose Barnes in Toronto because we need a 3 that can fill in the shoes of whoever's hurt this week. And I don't see Cade bumping Demarcus Cousins off the drive and then going up for a hook shot.

[K_chile22]

Screenshots of defenses converging on a guy driving are near meaningless. That's what defenses are supposed to do on guys good at getting downhill unless there's like 3 lights out knockdown shooters out there. Could dig up screengrabs like this for like half the league

[Vampirate]

Screenshots of defenses converging on a guy driving are near meaningless. That's what defenses are supposed to do on guys good at getting downhill unless there's like 3 lights out knockdown shooters out there. Could dig up screengrabs like this for like half the league

Scoring wise, Barnes biggest strength is Jalen Green's biggest weakness and vice versa.

They are polar opposites in this regard.

[chilluminati]

Coach Nick with the wisdom

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[PD28]

Coach Nick with the wisdom

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