2021-22 NBA Rookie Thread (part 6) - with ROY poll

[MrBigShot]

I'm not sure why winning has become such factor in ROY award. Rookies aren't impacting the wins you think they are especially on teams with all stars and vet players. I think Cade is the best rookie but I think he has done more for his team winning then the other 2 candidates if you want to use winning as a factor.

Historically winning hasn't mattered much for RoY. I think because he's inefficient, people undersell the impact Cade has had. We are absolutely atrocious when he isn't on the floor. Cade was spectacular in March, probably the best month by any rookie.

That being said, Barnes has the clear edge in efficiency and impact stats, and being a major contributor on a playoff team is definitely a plus. Cade's improved throughout the season, but so has Barnes with 18/8/4 post all star break. So I give him a slight edge and he's my pick for RoY.

[Vampirate]

A breakdown of the best rookies from each range.

0-3 feet

Mobley: Kuminga is close but Mobley has the clear edge in minutes They both have similar stats in terms of assisted buckets and shooting percentages from this area. I'll have to give it to Mobley though as he's played almost 20 more minutes, meaning his stats have had a chance to increase or decline more.

3-10 feet

Barnes: The second closest is Franz, however Barnes is easily more efficient than Franz in this area. Franz takes about 4.51 shots in this area while Barnes takes about 4.15 shots on average. This is however completely negated by the fact that Barnes easily has the best shooting percentage in this area out of all the rookies and it's not even close. Barnes shoots 5% better than Franz in this range and there's really no one close to Franz in volume or Barnes in percentage, as the next closest player to would be Cade who takes about 4 shots on average here.

10-16 feet

Cade: He has a similar shooting percentage to Mobley here, but Cade gets the nod simply because almost 80% of his 2 point shots are unassisted. Thus the higher degree of difficulty. On a strictly percentage base Mobley is slightly ahead however Cade actually takes more shots here on average than Mobley does.

16-3P line

Duarte: This is probably where most rookies are struggling at. There's no one (that I know of) aside from Duarte that's shooting over 40% from here at this time, He's at 45.5% here. Green is taking more shots than Duarte here by a little bit, however Duarte is shooting over 5% better than Green from this area, so he's overall better here.

3P Line:

Green: Green easily takes the most three point shots out of everyone and it's not close. Green takes 1.1 more three attempts than Cade, the player with the 2nd highest and is has a shooting percentage from 3 that's 3rd among rookies. the 2 players with a better shooting percentage than Green are Franz who takes literally half the amount of 3s as Green does and Duarte who takes 2.2 less threes than green does. Given the sheer volume and percentage, i'm putting Green as #1 here.

[Vampirate]

I'm not sure why winning has become such factor in ROY award. Rookies aren't impacting the wins you think they are especially on teams with all stars and vet players. I think Cade is the best rookie but I think he has done more for his team winning then the other 2 candidates if you want to use winning as a factor.

Historically winning hasn't mattered much for RoY. I think because he's inefficient, people undersell the impact Cade has had. We are absolutely atrocious when he isn't on the floor. Cade was spectacular in March, probably the best month by any rookie.

That being said, Barnes has the clear edge in efficiency and impact stats, and being a major contributor on a playoff team is definitely a plus. Cade's improved throughout the season, but so has Barnes with 18/8/4 post all star break. So I give him a slight edge and he's my pick for RoY.

Tbh, it's really difficult to judge Cade so much this year. He's by far the best player on the Pistons and it isn't close, which is skewing his scoring efficiency and on/off numbers.

I think once the Pistons get better players, especially offensively we'll be able to really judge what Cade's efficiency is going to be and where his true impact is.

In short, i'm taking his stats good and bad with a big grain of salt, I want to see how he does with better teammates before I really make a call on him.

[Slim Charlez]

Still think Cade will end up being the better player down the line.

[lobosloboslobos]

Can we agree whenever the award is handed out that whoever wins of the big three will have fully earned it and there's no reason to trash him just because your guy didn't win? any remote chance of that happening? hope so.

[Gasolina]

It’s been an awesome, awesome year for rookies. Not only have the top picks mostly shown out, but down the list of draft picks there are guys who have shined or at least shown great promise throughout the season. Tough act to follow for the class of 2022!

With all being pretty much said and done at this stage, I think Barnes has pretty well locked this award up. He’s been truly impressive and his versatility is second to only a handful of guys in the NBA. He has the box score stats, the advanced stats, the record, and the massive role on the best team starting a rookie.

I won’t lie. I was not in favour of giving the award to Barnes as recently as a few weeks ago, but in going back and evaluating his body of work in the season, objectively I have to say he deserves the award. Some honourable mentions:

Mobley obviously has been great this year. When he was playing his natural position at the 4, he was a cyclone on defense and clearly has a savant-like grasp on that end of the game. He should be really good going forward. It is clear from the last couple months, however, that he is much worse on defense when he plays out of position, and he owes a lot to Allen for making him shine. This is the main reason I just can’t bring myself to award Mobley over Barnes. When Barnes was asked to play out of position (or all of the positions) he rose to the task. When Mobley had to slot over to the 5 it got ugly.

Cade is a stud. A bonafide future top 15-20 guy in the league in my opinion. He has impressive composure and being the floor general comes naturally to him. He is a guy who will make his teammates better for years to come, and over the last month and a half we’ve seen how he can be a dominant offense force individually. I think he also deserves a lot of credit for being a competent defender so far at the NBA level, especially given he doesn’t have the same natural physical advantages of guys like Barnes and Mobley. It sucks for Cade that he got injured before the season began and had a slow start - I think if he hadn’t been bad in October and mediocre in November, he’d clinch the award easily.

I want to give a shoutout to my man Franz who somehow just got shunted from the discussion after a time. He’s a star. Needs to work on his defense and being stronger on the boards, but the multitude of ways he can get his shot off is impressive; the efficiency he displays on those shots is even more impressive. He’s so fluid for an athlete of his size that I think people forget how big this dude really is. I blame the Magic for slicing down this guy’s minutes and benching him at the end of games because he was winning too many for them. Really infuriating and I think the mark of an extremely bad organization to stunt your star rookie’s growth like that, but w/e.

All the other rookies I haven’t mentioned but have been great - I’m sorry! We were blessed with a fantastic class this year, and I wonder how long till we see its like again.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Still think Cade will end up being the better player down the line.

definitely, his game was polished prior to coming into the NBA. his all round skillset. i think to judge the best players in this draft will be their impact on both ends of the floor moving forward. Cade is the better offensive player, Mobley the better defensive player, Barnes right in the middle and probably most versatile on the defensive side atm.

and then you have the walking bucket Green, Giddey a future walking triple double, Wagner probably a 20-10 guy in his prime from the SF/PF position.

crazy draft. Suggs' future tbd. he'll probably have a better sophomore year. at least for the short term and this year, Raps did their homework on Suggs vs Barnes

[Slim Charlez]

Still think Cade will end up being the better player down the line.

definitely, his game was polished prior to coming into the NBA. his all round skillset. i think to judge the best players in this draft will be their impact on both ends of the floor moving forward. Cade is the better offensive player, Mobley the better defensive player, Barnes right in the middle and probably most versatile on the defensive side atm.

and then you have the walking bucket Green, Giddey a future walking triple double, Wagner probably a 20-10 guy in his prime from the SF/PF position.

crazy draft. Suggs' future tbd. he'll probably have a better sophomore year. at least for the short term and this year, Raps did their homework on Suggs vs Barnes

Yeah I knew this draft would be good, but Jesus it's looking amazing. I really like suggs and I still think he will be a very good two way guard but Masai again showing everybody why he's in the upper echelon of decision makers and talent evaluators in the league.

[orlando_joe]

A breakdown of the best rookies from each range.

0-3 feet

Mobley: Kuminga is close but Mobley has the clear edge in minutes They both have similar stats in terms of assisted buckets and shooting percentages from this area. I'll have to give it to Mobley though as he's played almost 20 more minutes, meaning his stats have had a chance to increase or decline more.

3-10 feet

Barnes: The second closest is Franz, however Barnes is easily more efficient than Franz in this area. Franz takes about 4.51 shots in this area while Barnes takes about 4.15 shots on average. This is however completely negated by the fact that Barnes easily has the best shooting percentage in this area out of all the rookies and it's not even close. Barnes shoots 5% better than Franz in this range and there's really no one close to Franz in volume or Barnes in percentage, as the next closest player to would be Cade who takes about 4 shots on average here.

10-16 feet

Cade: He has a similar shooting percentage to Mobley here, but Cade gets the nod simply because almost 80% of his 2 point shots are unassisted. Thus the higher degree of difficulty. On a strictly percentage base Mobley is slightly ahead however Cade actually takes more shots here on average than Mobley does.

16-3P line

Duarte: This is probably where most rookies are struggling at. There's no one (that I know of) aside from Duarte that's shooting over 40% from here at this time, He's at 45.5% here. Green is taking more shots than Duarte here by a little bit, however Duarte is shooting over 5% better than Green from this area, so he's overall better here.

3P Line:

Green: Green easily takes the most three point shots out of everyone and it's not close. Green takes 1.1 more three attempts than Cade, the player with the 2nd highest and is has a shooting percentage from 3 that's 3rd among rookies. the 2 players with a better shooting percentage than Green are Franz who takes literally half the amount of 3s as Green does and Duarte who takes 2.2 less threes than green does. Given the sheer volume and percentage, i'm putting Green as #1 here.

so...wagner scored overall most points..best from 3% and best ft% and nice fg% for amount of 3s taken of the top 5 rookies but you spin all to other players ...got it
so being ball hog with total green light wins no mater ...over smart team ball..got it

[srhcan]

It’s been an awesome, awesome year for rookies. Not only have the top picks mostly shown out, but down the list of draft picks there are guys who have shined or at least shown great promise throughout the season. Tough act to follow for the class of 2022!

With all being pretty much said and done at this stage, I think Barnes has pretty well locked this award up. He’s been truly impressive and his versatility is second to only a handful of guys in the NBA. He has the box score stats, the advanced stats, the record, and the massive role on the best team starting a rookie.

I won’t lie. I was not in favour of giving the award to Barnes as recently as a few weeks ago, but in going back and evaluating his body of work in the season, objectively I have to say he deserves the award. Some honourable mentions:

Mobley obviously has been great this year. When he was playing his natural position at the 4, he was a cyclone on defense and clearly has a savant-like grasp on that end of the game. He should be really good going forward. It is clear from the last couple months, however, that he is much worse on defense when he plays out of position, and he owes a lot to Allen for making him shine. This is the main reason I just can’t bring myself to award Mobley over Barnes. When Barnes was asked to play out of position (or all of the positions) he rose to the task. When Mobley had to slot over to the 5 it got ugly.

Cade is a stud. A bonafide future top 15-20 guy in the league in my opinion. He has impressive composure and being the floor general comes naturally to him. He is a guy who will make his teammates better for years to come, and over the last month and a half we’ve seen how he can be a dominant offense force individually. I think he also deserves a lot of credit for being a competent defender so far at the NBA level, especially given he doesn’t have the same natural physical advantages of guys like Barnes and Mobley. It sucks for Cade that he got injured before the season began and had a slow start - I think if he hadn’t been bad in October and mediocre in November, he’d clinch the award easily.

I want to give a shoutout to my man Franz who somehow just got shunted from the discussion after a time. He’s a star. Needs to work on his defense and being stronger on the boards, but the multitude of ways he can get his shot off is impressive; the efficiency he displays on those shots is even more impressive. He’s so fluid for an athlete of his size that I think people forget how big this dude really is. I blame the Magic for slicing down this guy’s minutes and benching him at the end of games because he was winning too many for them. Really infuriating and I think the mark of an extremely bad organization to stunt your star rookie’s growth like that, but w/e.

All the other rookies I haven’t mentioned but have been great - I’m sorry! We were blessed with a fantastic class this year, and I wonder how long till we see its like again.

Totally agree. Magic is tanking at the expense of their promising rookie which is ridiculous. They are basically alienating him from the organization which may have future repercussion. This is the reason I want Mo Bamba to get the hell out of Magic and revive his career else where. Dude is too talented to stuck in such a bad organization.

[Sidthekid87]

I think Jalen green becomes the best player out of this draft. Just gotta eliminate the stupid shots he takes, which I think he will, and that guy has multiple scoring title potential. Insanely fast, deep bag, good shooter, and he can jump out of the gym. He's fr a young hyper athletic version of Bradley Beal. I don't think people realize how insane that build is if he reaches his potential. I like Cade, I see big time similarities in Luka in the way he brings the game to his pace, but I don't see the shot creating and making abilities to offset the lack of athletic ability like Luka has. I like Mobley, great rim protector, but I don't think he's ever gonna be the type of player to generate his own offense. And I LOVE Scottie, probably the smartest Basketball iq out of all of them, but I don't think he's got the bag or is athletic enough to be a true first option. I think it was a great draft, but if you gave me the choice of who I'd want if I was starting out my team, I'd take Green.

[Madhouse]

I still see it as a 3-way toss-up ultimately in terms of ROY. Even though it doesn't appear likely that Cade has much of a chance anymore.

In terms of potential and ceiling a lot of players have tons of potential and a high ceiling.

I think everyone sees the potential in the top 4 picks but also obviously Giddey, Wagner and Kuminga. Time will tell. There is no clear cut answer who becomes the best player of the draft.

[Madhouse]

Evan Mobley is a lock.for ROY.

not sure how objectively. Can win it sure, but lock objectively no.

[Madhouse]

I think you, dave being, and anyone else with the same sort of take are delusional for trying to put a hard cap on a guy with as much talent as Cade in his 1st season.

23/7/6 on 48/32/78 in March and ya'll think his ceiling is 2nd option? That IS 2nd option and all star level already and people really think he's going to peak at what he's shown recently? Explosiveness isn't remotely an issue for Cade. He's 6'6 with a long wingspan and gets to wherever he wants on the court already.

1. I think this 1st option, 2nd option talk is all overrated.
2. The question that needs to be asked is if a player can be the most impactful player on a championship level team
3. If he can I don't really care if he scores 23 per game and the other guy with rubbish defense scores 26.
4. I think Cade's numbers are inflated in a similar way Ant's were last season. I think he is probably a 21/7/7 player on a team next season that will be much more competitive.
5. The talent is obvious though and his impact has improved a lot. His ceiling is high and where its capped right now is unknown. If he is in the mold of Luka a 27/8/8 player in his prime, I would not be shocked.

[The Moose]

Watch on YouTube

;t=25s

New film breakdown with Schmitz

[The Moose]

I think Barnes is going to end up taking the award in a pretty close voting race

[HotelVitale]

Still think Cade will end up being the better player down the line.

definitely, his game was polished prior to coming into the NBA. his all round skillset. i think to judge the best players in this draft will be their impact on both ends of the floor moving forward. Cade is the better offensive player, Mobley the better defensive player, Barnes right in the middle and probably most versatile on the defensive side atm.

and then you have the walking bucket Green, Giddey a future walking triple double, Wagner probably a 20-10 guy in his prime from the SF/PF position.

crazy draft. Suggs' future tbd. he'll probably have a better sophomore year. at least for the short term and this year, Raps did their homework on Suggs vs Barnes

Yeah I knew this draft would be good, but Jesus it's looking amazing. I really like suggs and I still think he will be a very good two way guard but Masai again showing everybody why he's in the upper echelon of decision makers and talent evaluators in the league.

I think the TOR front office is one of the best in the business but I do wonder if the Barnes love was far more widespread in the NBA than most fans think. Main reason is that scouts never really liked Suggs that much throughout HS and into the start of the college season, and then you heard a lot more about him from college fans and people talking about his heart and whatnot, the type of things scouts don’t like to say. There was always a concern that he wasn’t a good enough NBA athlete or good enough shooter to be a lead guard at the pro level. Barnes meanwhile was a top prospect in HS and had a very solid/promising freshman season, definitely didn’t do anything to lower his stock. And he had some unquestionable pro-ready tools.

I tend to think that it was still a risky and bold move to take Barnes but not really one out of left field. More like if someone were to take Ivey over Banchero this year.

[Vampirate]

A breakdown of the best rookies from each range.

0-3 feet

Mobley: Kuminga is close but Mobley has the clear edge in minutes They both have similar stats in terms of assisted buckets and shooting percentages from this area. I'll have to give it to Mobley though as he's played almost 20 more minutes, meaning his stats have had a chance to increase or decline more.

3-10 feet

Barnes: The second closest is Franz, however Barnes is easily more efficient than Franz in this area. Franz takes about 4.51 shots in this area while Barnes takes about 4.15 shots on average. This is however completely negated by the fact that Barnes easily has the best shooting percentage in this area out of all the rookies and it's not even close. Barnes shoots 5% better than Franz in this range and there's really no one close to Franz in volume or Barnes in percentage, as the next closest player to would be Cade who takes about 4 shots on average here.

10-16 feet

Cade: He has a similar shooting percentage to Mobley here, but Cade gets the nod simply because almost 80% of his 2 point shots are unassisted. Thus the higher degree of difficulty. On a strictly percentage base Mobley is slightly ahead however Cade actually takes more shots here on average than Mobley does.

16-3P line

Duarte: This is probably where most rookies are struggling at. There's no one (that I know of) aside from Duarte that's shooting over 40% from here at this time, He's at 45.5% here. Green is taking more shots than Duarte here by a little bit, however Duarte is shooting over 5% better than Green from this area, so he's overall better here.

3P Line:

Green: Green easily takes the most three point shots out of everyone and it's not close. Green takes 1.1 more three attempts than Cade, the player with the 2nd highest and is has a shooting percentage from 3 that's 3rd among rookies. the 2 players with a better shooting percentage than Green are Franz who takes literally half the amount of 3s as Green does and Duarte who takes 2.2 less threes than green does. Given the sheer volume and percentage, i'm putting Green as #1 here.

so...wagner scored overall most points..best from 3% and best ft% and nice fg% for amount of 3s taken of the top 5 rookies but you spin all to other players ...got it
so being ball hog with total green light wins no mater ...over smart team ball..got it

I'm not sure why you are upset here, Wagner is not the best 3 point shooter percentage wise either, that's Duarte.

Wagner's bread and butter is not the 3, he easily takes the majority of his shots deom 3-10 feet from the basket and is also very good there, especially for a rookie. I noted that already.

I'm not including free throws because that's a different type of shooting, i'm just listing which players are best from which range.

You are just wanting to complain here tbh because you 'think i'm putting your player down when i'm not. And yes, volume on shots matter in correlation to percentage shot.

[orlando_joe]

A breakdown of the best rookies from each range.

0-3 feet

Mobley: Kuminga is close but Mobley has the clear edge in minutes They both have similar stats in terms of assisted buckets and shooting percentages from this area. I'll have to give it to Mobley though as he's played almost 20 more minutes, meaning his stats have had a chance to increase or decline more.

3-10 feet

Barnes: The second closest is Franz, however Barnes is easily more efficient than Franz in this area. Franz takes about 4.51 shots in this area while Barnes takes about 4.15 shots on average. This is however completely negated by the fact that Barnes easily has the best shooting percentage in this area out of all the rookies and it's not even close. Barnes shoots 5% better than Franz in this range and there's really no one close to Franz in volume or Barnes in percentage, as the next closest player to would be Cade who takes about 4 shots on average here.

10-16 feet

Cade: He has a similar shooting percentage to Mobley here, but Cade gets the nod simply because almost 80% of his 2 point shots are unassisted. Thus the higher degree of difficulty. On a strictly percentage base Mobley is slightly ahead however Cade actually takes more shots here on average than Mobley does.

16-3P line

Duarte: This is probably where most rookies are struggling at. There's no one (that I know of) aside from Duarte that's shooting over 40% from here at this time, He's at 45.5% here. Green is taking more shots than Duarte here by a little bit, however Duarte is shooting over 5% better than Green from this area, so he's overall better here.

3P Line:

Green: Green easily takes the most three point shots out of everyone and it's not close. Green takes 1.1 more three attempts than Cade, the player with the 2nd highest and is has a shooting percentage from 3 that's 3rd among rookies. the 2 players with a better shooting percentage than Green are Franz who takes literally half the amount of 3s as Green does and Duarte who takes 2.2 less threes than green does. Given the sheer volume and percentage, i'm putting Green as #1 here.

so...wagner scored overall most points..best from 3% and best ft% and nice fg% for amount of 3s taken of the top 5 rookies but you spin all to other players ...got it
so being ball hog with total green light wins no mater ...over smart team ball..got it

I'm not sure why you are upset here, Wagner is not the best 3 point shooter percentage wise either, that's Duarte.

Wagner's bread and butter is not the 3, he easily takes the majority of his shots deom 3-10 feet from the basket and is also very good there, especially for a rookie. I noted that already.

I'm not including free throws because that's a different type of shooting, i'm just listing which players are best from which range.

You are just wanting to complain here tbh because you 'think i'm putting your player down when i'm not. And yes, volume on shots matter in correlation to percentage shot.

i wrote of the top 5 rookies.of the top 5 wagner has the best ft and 3% and most points scored with solid overall fg% those are facts...and i am of the school if you take more you best make more..just me? ...and you post all kinds of different shots with no real category yet no ft? are they not all kinds of shots? bottom line if one had to say the best overall shooter was franz...all good just pointing out spin

[Vampirate]

so...wagner scored overall most points..best from 3% and best ft% and nice fg% for amount of 3s taken of the top 5 rookies but you spin all to other players ...got it
so being ball hog with total green light wins no mater ...over smart team ball..got it

I'm not sure why you are upset here, Wagner is not the best 3 point shooter percentage wise either, that's Duarte.

Wagner's bread and butter is not the 3, he easily takes the majority of his shots deom 3-10 feet from the basket and is also very good there, especially for a rookie. I noted that already.

I'm not including free throws because that's a different type of shooting, i'm just listing which players are best from which range.

You are just wanting to complain here tbh because you 'think i'm putting your player down when i'm not. And yes, volume on shots matter in correlation to percentage shot.

i wrote of the top 5 rookies.of the top 5 wagner has the best ft and 3% and most points scored with solid overall fg% those are facts...and i am of the school if you take more you best make more..just me? ...and you post all kinds of different shots with no real category yet no ft? are they not all kinds of shots? bottom line if one had to say the best overall shooter was franz...all good just pointing out spin

That's not what my post is about. What you are talking about has nothing to do with my post.