2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3)

[Exp0sed]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

That' a good one
Embiid was a high draft pick, that missed a couple of seasons and started playing in the League when he was 22+.
He was also starting from day 1 and featured prominently on offense

Jokic was a second round unknown pick, with the 'euro' label that had to earn his stripes (and had a dumb coach in Malone that took a year and a half to promote him fully to a starter status)

In his first NBA season he was only 20 Yo, with a very limited role, who played 21.7 mpg and had 7.5 (!) FGA.
Don't u think it's kind of relevant when comparing Career avgs?

He only surpassed 30 mins per game in his third season for the first time, he was 22 at the time and had 13.5 FGA.
By comparison in Embiid (real) 3rd season he was 24 and had 18.7 FGA - do u see a trend here?

Even this past season where Jokic was completely alone offensively - he only took 17.7 compared to Embiid's 19.6 FGA per game.
Mind u, Embiid gets fouled a lot...so it's actually much more then that, as captured by his much higher Usage rate at any season.

Even if what u said was accurate and complete - taking shots closer to the basket and making such a ridic amount of them - is the best skill in Basketball. It's not like any1 can do it...He does it because of how good and effective he is at doing it.

Ofcourse Embiid gets doubled more, Jokic is the probably the best passing big man of all time...kinda hard and ineffective to double that

Embiid is a great scorer but if the PPG or per min stats are all u look at, why not factor in both the Usage% and FGA taken plus the efficiency in which these shots are converted? U don't think those matter to determine who is the better 'scorer'?

Jokic is def on the same level as Embiid as a scorer and argubaly better.

[Archx]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

[Madhouse]

Jokic is having an outlier year. It happens. We haven’t seen this circumstance before in NBA history.

Outlier years should be recognized when there aren't two other candidates who are equally deserving.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Joker is MVP....accept it.

[Hussien Fatal]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

Lol Embiid is just a better scorer.

Jokic 40 point games this season: 3
Embiid 40 point games this season: 13

Not even close.

Also Embiid has been the most doubled player in the league over the last 4 seasons.

[Hussien Fatal]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

This is the reason why noone takes you seriously.

-Not on the same level in scoring is 3pts per game more on worse efficience and higher usage?
-61% ts on mostly midrange? That's a fallacy, his 10-16ft is 43%. His 0-3ft and free throws boost his ts.
-Using career averages for comparison when one has been a starter from the beginning of his career and the other was bencher playing limited minutes.

You always give half the picture and ignore the other half.

So it’s Embiids fault Jokic was a bench player early in his career? Even if we compare their last 3 seasons Embiid still has a massive advantage in ppg. Embiid is the scoring champ for Christ sake, is Jokic even top 5 in ppg?

And like I said a majority of Embiids shots come from the mid range. He’s been deadly over the last two seasons from 10ft and out.

While Jokic has a higher ts Embiid is still the superior scorer no doubt about it.

Embiid has 13, 40 point games this year compared to Jokic’s 3.

[Madhouse]

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

Lol Embiid is just a better scorer.

Jokic 40 point games this season: 3
Embiid 40 point games this season: 13

Not even close.

Also Embiid has been the most doubled player in the league over the last 4 seasons.

I like how you tried to push the Embiid MVP agenda all year and now it's not happening.

[Hussien Fatal]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

That' a good one
Embiid was a high draft pick, that missed a couple of seasons and started playing in the League when he was 22+.
He was also starting from day 1 and featured prominently on offense

Jokic was a second round unknown pick, with the 'euro' label that had to earn his stripes (and had a dumb coach in Malone that took a year and a half to promote him fully to a starter status)

In his first NBA season he was only 20 Yo, with a very limited role, who played 21.7 mpg and had 7.5 (!) FGA.
Don't u think it's kind of relevant when comparing Career avgs?

He only surpassed 30 mins per game in his third season for the first time, he was 22 at the time and had 13.5 FGA.
By comparison in Embiid (real) 3rd season he was 24 and had 18.7 FGA - do u see a trend here?

Even this past season where Jokic was completely alone offensively - he only took 17.7 compared to Embiid's 19.6 FGA per game.
Mind u, Embiid gets fouled a lot...so it's actually much more then that, as captured by his much higher Usage rate at any season.

Even if what u said was accurate and complete - taking shots closer to the basket and making such a ridic amount of them - is the best skill in Basketball. It's not like any1 can do it...He does it because of how good and effective he is at doing it.

Ofcourse Embiid gets doubled more, Jokic is the probably the best passing big man of all time...kinda hard and ineffective to double that

Embiid is a great scorer but if the PPG or per min stats are all u look at, why not factor in both the Usage% and FGA taken plus the efficiency in which these shots are converted? U don't think those matter to determine who is the better 'scorer'?

Jokic is def on the same level as Embiid as a scorer and argubaly better.

Jokic FOR HIS CAREER has 11, 40 point games…this season Joel has 13, 40 point games. And buddy just so you know PPG will always be one of the best indicators of scoring ability. And points per minute is also Synonymous with the greatest scorers of all time. MJ, KD, Harden, Steph, Lebron and Gervin are all in the top 10 for career points per minute. All behind Embiid. In fact Embiid is the only player in NBA history over 0.80 he’s at 0.83 and the next closest is MJ at 0.79

[Hussien Fatal]

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

Lol Embiid is just a better scorer.

Jokic 40 point games this season: 3
Embiid 40 point games this season: 13

Not even close.

Also Embiid has been the most doubled player in the league over the last 4 seasons.

I like how you tried to push the Embiid MVP agenda all year and now it's not happening.

It’s ok if he doesn’t win it, I think he’s the MVP for sure though.

[losmi]

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

Lol Embiid is just a better scorer.

Jokic 40 point games this season: 3
Embiid 40 point games this season: 13

Not even close.

Also Embiid has been the most doubled player in the league over the last 4 seasons.

He has been among the most doubled players over the last 4 seasons because he's not good at handling double-teams (~0.97 team points per posession, though he is better this season with ~1.1). If you are wondering why Jokic isn't doubled as much, that's because he is elite at handling double-teams (~1.4 team points per possession).

[scrabbarista]

My ranks before the last day of the season:

(Top four are probably set in stone, but after that it's really hard! Like, Booker is 9th, but he'd be a good vote at 5th, too.)

1. Jokic
2. Antetokounmpo
3. Embiid
4. Tatum
5. Doncic
6. Durant
7. Paul
8. Gobert
9. Booker
10. Curry
11. Morant
12. Butler

I just checked bbref's MVP Tracker, and Tatum isn't in the top ten. I wonder why that is. Maybe I could be moved off him at fourth, but I think his impact is just too good to deny. (Double-checked his numbers, and yeah, I think fourth is a good spot for him.) In any case, the top three are obviously set in stone at this point. After that, it's all a great big bowl of a mumbo jumbo-laya of information. (I'm hungry.)

[Wolfgang630]

My ranks before the last day of the season:

(Top four are probably set in stone, but after that it's really hard! Like, Booker is 9th, but he'd be a good vote at 5th, too.)

1. Jokic
2. Antetokounmpo
3. Embiid
4. Tatum
5. Doncic
6. Durant
7. Paul
8. Gobert
9. Booker
10. Curry
11. Morant
12. Butler

I just checked bbref's MVP Tracker, and Tatum isn't in the top ten. I wonder why that is. Maybe I could be moved off him at fourth, but I think his impact is just too good to deny. (Double-checked his numbers, and yeah, I think fourth is a good spot for him.) In any case, the top three are obviously set in stone at this point. After that, it's all a great big bowl of a mumbo jumbo-laya of information. (I'm hungry.)

Nice to see an unbiased Sixers fan for once.

[scrabbarista]

My ranks before the last day of the season:

(Top four are probably set in stone, but after that it's really hard! Like, Booker is 9th, but he'd be a good vote at 5th, too.)

1. Jokic
2. Antetokounmpo
3. Embiid
4. Tatum
5. Doncic
6. Durant
7. Paul
8. Gobert
9. Booker
10. Curry
11. Morant
12. Butler

I just checked bbref's MVP Tracker, and Tatum isn't in the top ten. I wonder why that is. Maybe I could be moved off him at fourth, but I think his impact is just too good to deny. (Double-checked his numbers, and yeah, I think fourth is a good spot for him.) In any case, the top three are obviously set in stone at this point. After that, it's all a great big bowl of a mumbo jumbo-laya of information. (I'm hungry.)

Nice to see an unbiased Sixers fan for once.

I appreciate the compliment, but it's misplaced, because I'm not a Sixers fan. Long story.

Eh, here's the short version. Been a Rockets fan my whole life (since like '89 as a kid). Fertitta caused an uninterrupted string of infuriating disasters, and the day Morey signed with the Sixers, I abandoned Houston for Philly, changing my avatar logo. However, I found Philly so unlikeable/unwatchable - Doc, Embiid, Simmons, their style of play... and I fell out of love with Morey's personality - that I only lasted maybe a month or two really cheering for them. I've actually rooted for Jokic and the Nuggets as my main team for the last two or three seasons (and Jokic was my favorite player even before that).

But, with that said, those rankings are based on an actual formula I created, taking into account a handful of advanced and simple stats. So, yeah. I'm a Jokic fan. He's one of my four all-time favorite players, with Olajuwon, Jordan, and Duncan. But if any other player in the league had the case he has, I'd put that player at the top of my list. That's just how I roll. I like objective facts, and I hate, hate, hate it when subjective feelings interfere with recognizing and understanding the facts - even though feelings are fun, too, and they're a big part of what the sport is all about.

[eyeatoma]

I'm specifically talking about back to back MVPs.

I was curious about this and decided to use my weak googling skills to see historically if there are instances where 2nd of back to back mvp seasons is worse then first (from team record standpoint). I leave open the possibility of me making a mistake (due to my pathetic research skill and since i did this on my phone) so feel free to correct me, but these are few examples i found:

Nash 05/06 - 62w to 54w (-8)
LeBron 09/10 - 66w to 61w (-5)
Wilt 67/68 - 68w to 62w (3rd in a row) (-6)
Russell 62/63 - 60w to 58w (3rd in a row) (-2)
Kareem 71/72 - 66w to 63w (-3)

So saying that second year of mvp has to be godly better than first year in order to win it back to back is not always true. Now granted, these are all really good records and downgrade is season 2 is not crazy, except maybe in Nash's case.

Anyways, was just curious...

I meant they should be a better or similar seed. Not records wise specifically. Basically i just think performing worse as a team in your 2nd mvp seeding wise isn't really rewarding the right things, when you just got an MVP the previous year for a fairly similar statistical performance.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[eyeatoma]

My ranks before the last day of the season:

(Top four are probably set in stone, but after that it's really hard! Like, Booker is 9th, but he'd be a good vote at 5th, too.)

1. Jokic
2. Antetokounmpo
3. Embiid
4. Tatum
5. Doncic
6. Durant
7. Paul
8. Gobert
9. Booker
10. Curry
11. Morant
12. Butler

I just checked bbref's MVP Tracker, and Tatum isn't in the top ten. I wonder why that is. Maybe I could be moved off him at fourth, but I think his impact is just too good to deny. (Double-checked his numbers, and yeah, I think fourth is a good spot for him.) In any case, the top three are obviously set in stone at this point. After that, it's all a great big bowl of a mumbo jumbo-laya of information. (I'm hungry.)

Nice to see an unbiased Sixers fan for once.

He's a Nuggets fan lol, he hates Philly. He's trolling.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

[mademan]

I'm specifically talking about back to back MVPs.

I was curious about this and decided to use my weak googling skills to see historically if there are instances where 2nd of back to back mvp seasons is worse then first (from team record standpoint). I leave open the possibility of me making a mistake (due to my pathetic research skill and since i did this on my phone) so feel free to correct me, but these are few examples i found:

Nash 05/06 - 62w to 54w (-8)
LeBron 09/10 - 66w to 61w (-5)
Wilt 67/68 - 68w to 62w (3rd in a row) (-6)
Russell 62/63 - 60w to 58w (3rd in a row) (-2)
Kareem 71/72 - 66w to 63w (-3)

So saying that second year of mvp has to be godly better than first year in order to win it back to back is not always true. Now granted, these are all really good records and downgrade is season 2 is not crazy, except maybe in Nash's case.

Anyways, was just curious...

I meant they should be a better or similar seed. Not records wise specifically. Basically i just think performing worse as a team in your 2nd mvp seeding wise isn't really rewarding the right things, when you just got an MVP the previous year for a fairly similar statistical performance.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

2022 Jokic isnt competing against 2021 Jokic. He's competing against 2022 Embid and 2022 Giannis. I have no idea why it matters what happened last year, especially since the composition of his team this year is completely different.

[NZB2323]

If you go back to back, your team record on the second one should be near perfect, or atleast a top 2 seed.

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Why?

Never happened before in history. It represents excellence. When you've been excellent you need to critique other factors as well. Team record being one of the first.

It's kind of arbitrary but so is Embiid not winning last year because of missed games.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Kind of like how a player never had 4,000 points, 2,000 rebounds, and 1,000 assists in a season?

[velkisimo]

Why?

Never happened before in history. It represents excellence. When you've been excellent you need to critique other factors as well. Team record being one of the first.

It's kind of arbitrary but so is Embiid not winning last year because of missed games.

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Kind of like how a player never had 4,000 points, 2,000 rebounds, and 1,000 assists in a season?

Umm, think you accidentally doubled the numbers there

[Duke4life831]

This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

What? So the only reason Jokic is a more efficient scorer is because he takes smarter shots? I dont get how that is considered a positive for Embiid in this discussion? Why wouldnt Embiid just stop taking as many mid range shots and start taking closer shots? I mean wouldnt that just make him an even better scorer than he is right now?

I mean Jokic's eFG% is 9% higher than Embiid's. The only reason Embiid has as high of a TS% as he does is because of how often he gets to the line. Then I think you could ask the question, just imagine what Jokic's numbers would look like if he got to the line as often as Embiid does. Spoiler he would be averaging 30.6ppg on a 68 TS%. And you could also ask why does Embiid get to the line basically twice as much as Jokic, even though as you say, "Jokic takes shots closer to the basket" while Embiid takes so many mid range shots. You would think a guy living at the rim would get more FTs than the guy taking a ton of mid range.

Overall I think this comparison is pretty dumb, they're both elite scorers and trying to say either one has a gap on the other is pretty pointless. Yes Embiid averages 3 more ppg, while he is taking 2 more shots to get there. One has the edge in raw volume, while the other has the edge in efficiency.

[Archx]

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

Please stop embarrasing yourself, at least for a day or two, with your silly posts. There are healthy discussions and then there are moronic discussions with zero credibility and zero logic.

Your point is like saying, Jordan was a bad scorer just because he didn't shoot 3 pointers. Why would Jokic mostly settle for mid range game if he knows he's good enough to get closer to the rim. Since when is that a knock on someones scoring abilites or whatever you want to call it...

Jokic is playing to his strengths which is a little bit of everything. Scoring, passing, rebounding, defense, etc... And it's absolutely stupid to judge how good of a player someone is by simply saying "he's an all time scorer therefore he's a better player".

Dude news flash, in total, Jokic produces more points per game for his team than Embiid !!!

And also, most doubled player in the NBA is Doncic not Embiid.

Watch on YouTube

Lol Embiid is just a better scorer.

I understand that you live in your own bubble but the fact is, Jokic is a better overall player and there is nothing that you can use to dispute that.

Jokic 40 point games this season: 3
Embiid 40 point games this season: 13

Not even close.

Also Embiid has been the most doubled player in the league over the last 4 seasons.

It's actually embarrasing how far you're pushing this narrative about Embiid's scoring when Jokic, on average, produces more points for his team. And last time i checked NBA is a team game 5v5 and not 1v1. So i couldn't care less if Embiid scores 3 ppg more than Jokic, he's still not a better player and 100% not MVP.

[eyeatoma]

This is why Embiid is a better scorer. See Jokic there at all?

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'
Also one of the reasons for Joel's lower fg%, is that he is nearly always double or triple teamed.

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