2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3)

losmi · Post #2481 » by **losmi** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:31 pm

Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

eyeatoma · Post #2482 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:32 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
eathb_au wrote:This is going to be an unpopular comment.

I believe Jokic's 27 PPG @ 66% TS makes him a more impressive scorer than Embiid's 30 PPG @ 61% TS.

I kind of wish Jokic was just an average level passer to be able to showcase his scoring.

Jokic isn’t on the same level as embiid at all when it comes to scoring. Embiid is 1st all time in point per minute. He averages 26ppg in just 31mpg for his career while jokic doesn’t even average 20ppg for his career. Only reason Jokic has a higher ts is because he takes shot closer to the basket. The fact Embiid has a 61%ts on mostly mid range shots is impressive. Also Embiid gets doubled the most in NBA. Joel will earn his 1st scoring title, while Jokic will likely never win a scoring title.

As far as scoring and defense Embiid has a clear advantage.

What? So the only reason Jokic is a more efficient scorer is because he takes smarter shots? I dont get how that is considered a positive for Embiid in this discussion? Why wouldnt Embiid just stop taking as many mid range shots and start taking closer shots? I mean wouldnt that just make him an even better scorer than he is right now?

I mean Jokic's eFG% is 9% higher than Embiid's. The only reason Embiid has as high of a TS% as he does is because of how often he gets to the line. Then I think you could ask the question, just imagine what Jokic's numbers would look like if he got to the line as often as Embiid does. Spoiler he would be averaging 30.6ppg on a 68 TS%. And you could also ask why does Embiid get to the line basically twice as much as Jokic, even though as you say, "Jokic takes shots closer to the basket" while Embiid takes so many mid range shots. You would think a guy living at the rim would get more FTs than the guy taking a ton of mid range.

Overall I think this comparison is pretty dumb, they're both elite scorers and trying to say either one has a gap on the other is pretty pointless. Yes Embiid averages 3 more ppg, while he is taking 2 more shots to get there. One has the edge in raw volume, while the other has the edge in efficiency.

You really think Jokic is more assertive and aggressive in finding his shot, and being physical? Embiid's physicality and athleticism is the primary reason he is fouled more than Jokic. Scoring wise, and as far as aggressiveness, they are very different.

eyeatoma · Post #2483 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:33 pm

losmi wrote:Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

Read on Twitter

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

maxwellcu · Post #2484 » by **maxwellcu** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:42 pm

If you think that a massive gap in points scored per possession consumed (i.e what TS is designed to capture) is irrelevant when comparing two volume scorers with similar PPG is irrelevant or “made up” then you’re a straight up fool.

losmi · Post #2485 » by **losmi** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:43 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

Read on Twitter

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

He'll get the scoring title for his scoring. His offense is good, but not even close to Jokic's.

eyeatoma · Post #2486 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:46 pm

losmi wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

Read on Twitter

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

He'll get the scoring title for his scoring. His offense is good, but not even close to Jokic's.

Jokic is an offensive hub, who can score well. Joel Embiid is a lethal scorer first and foremost, since becoming one, he also bring DPOY level defense when it matters (the playoffs).

Read on Twitter

Mrakar · Post #2487 » by **Mrakar** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:14 pm

Will Embiid play tonight? I think he will aim for 50 since he knows he is in backseat in MVP race.
Still i think even if he gets 60 it will not help him since most of the voters don't care about games vs lotto teams.

If Jokic doesn't get it, ...

LAL1947 · Post #2488 » by **LAL1947** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:36 pm

Jokic is MVP AFAIC and Embiid a worthy runner-up. Luka should be 3rd and Giannis 4th. Booker maybe gets 5th since the Suns should be represented.

Cubbies2120 · Post #2489 » by **Cubbies2120** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:16 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

Read on Twitter

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

Here's another precedent since that matters to you:

Only 1 MVP has missed more than 10 games in the last 44 years, and that person missed 11.

Embiid has missed more than that.

Which would be fine in any normal year but not in the historically great year 3 people are having. Availability is important.

Cubbies2120 · Post #2490 » by **Cubbies2120** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:19 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

He'll get the scoring title for his scoring. His offense is good, but not even close to Jokic's.

Jokic is an offensive hub, who can score well. Joel Embiid is a lethal scorer first and foremost, since becoming one, he also bring DPOY level defense when it matters (the playoffs).

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

What does the "DPOY level defense when it matters" have to do with REGULAR SEASON MVP? Aren't the votes gathered for performance in regular season 2021-2022?

Also love the "score well" comment, Jokic is one of the most efficient 25+ppg scorers in NBA history lol.

I'm sure you meant "Offensive hub who can score with GOAT-level efficiency" but couldn't bring yourself to type it out :lol:

Cubbies2120 · Post #2491 » by **Cubbies2120** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:21 pm

eyeatoma wrote:Embiid's physicality and athleticism is the primary reason he is fouled more than Jokic.

Weird how 29 team's fans can admit that he flops like a fish, to the extent that it's actually embarrassing to watch a man as large as him fall to the floor as often as he does.

Does he get fouled? Yes

Does he exaggerate contact more than any other big man since Vlade Divac? Also yes.

It's ok to admit, he's talented, but he can't take punishment and remain on his feet like other, tough players.

AleksandarN · Post #2492 » by **AleksandarN** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:25 pm

eyeatoma wrote:This is why Embiid is a better scorer. See Jokic there at all?

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

'
Also one of the reasons for Joel's lower fg%, is that he is nearly always double or triple teamed.

Read on Twitter

I love how advanced stats matter only when defending Embiid. But gets ignored ridiculed when ever it is used for jokic’s. This is so funny lol

falcolombardi · Post #2493 » by **falcolombardi** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:26 pm

using per 100 possesions is silly, carry on

AleksandarN · Post #2494 » by **AleksandarN** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:28 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:Embiid's personal trainer with his embarrassing campaign again.

Read on Twitter

I don't even get his point with top 7. Giannis is 2nd, Jokic is 6th in ppg.

Btw. this list shows that the correlation between the scoring title and the MVP is weak (14/50).

It's not embarrassing, it's actually trying to show what the precedent has been.

Jokic does not lead in any regular statistical category. Embiid leads the league in scoring.

The only think Jokic is doing better at is made up stats that over values rebounds, and assists from the big man position.

Jokic leads the league in double doubles. Triple doubles etc

Cubbies2120 · Post #2495 » by **Cubbies2120** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:58 pm

Jokic's passing is SO good that he literally cannot be double teamed. If he is double teamed, instead of taking an inefficient shot like some stars, he will make the correct basketball play with his elite court vision finding the open man.

Here's an insane stat from last year:

Read on Twitter

Embiid should spend the entire offseason working on his passing game to get to a point where it's detrimental for the opponent to double team him.

eyeatoma · Post #2496 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:06 pm

Cubbies2120 wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
losmi wrote:
He'll get the scoring title for his scoring. His offense is good, but not even close to Jokic's.

Jokic is an offensive hub, who can score well. Joel Embiid is a lethal scorer first and foremost, since becoming one, he also bring DPOY level defense when it matters (the playoffs).

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

What does the "DPOY level defense when it matters" have to do with REGULAR SEASON MVP? Aren't the votes gathered for performance in regular season 2021-2022?

Also love the "score well" comment, Jokic is one of the most efficient 25+ppg scorers in NBA history lol.

I'm sure you meant "Offensive hub who can score with GOAT-level efficiency" but couldn't bring yourself to type it out

Then he should just do it.

eyeatoma · Post #2497 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:08 pm

The hoops you guys jump through to defend this man is hilarious. I'm done, have fun with your asterisk MVP.

eyeatoma · Post #2498 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:09 pm

double

Wolfgang630 · Post #2499 » by **Wolfgang630** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:10 pm

This dude is triggered lol. No need to get so emotional over this stuff.

eyeatoma · Post #2500 » by **eyeatoma** » Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:13 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:This dude is triggered lol. No need to get so emotional over this stuff.

I mean, have you seen the rest of the people on this board. You guys take anything I say about Jokic as a personal affront. Literally everything that is brought up with Embiid. Is either, eh, Jokic does it better, or Jokic is more "efficient", or, that doesn't really count, or who cares about points. All I said, was the team needs a better record, and Embiid is a more pure scorer. Is that really hard to fathom. Lol at you guys.

Who will win MVP?