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Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle

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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#241 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:02 pm

dakomish23 wrote:Was listening to the KFTV post game and they think Randle off the bench would kill his value even more. Idk about that. As the fulcrum for the 2nd unit he might be able to find his groove again.

But before deciding what to do with Randle, I’d hope they reconsider the Thibs year 3. Also they gotta make a choice b/w Burks & Fournier (doubtful we’d be able to dump both). Grimes got to be locked in the rotation. Give Noel away to anybody who wants him. I was wrong about acquiring DRose and he showed he had some chemistry with the kids. It might make sense to keep him & Taj to be the vet leaders.

Knicks have a lot of decisions to make. Hopefully they’ll make the smart ones that try to help the youth flourish


I think Taj and Rose are the best "vet leaders" to keep as they contribute well with whatever they get. Also, they are both at the stage in their careers, but also life - it's important to note their maturity level as people, as men, that they don't have the same ego and need to put up numbers like Noel or Burks or Fournier, where each of those guys has enough years left and another contract to chase, that they are more likely to "get theirs". And they can be good influences too, just that they all need to go to make room for kids who are possibly better, as good, or not much less, but much younger with room for improvement.

What worries me about the FO, and this comes down to including Thibs or their attitude to him, is I feel like they aren't unified in purpose. I initially thought they would be, but they don't seem to be, or it's just the fact they aren't that good that makes them look that way.
So, Randle COULD be good off the bench, backing up 4/5 and getting the same minutes, but Thibs would never stand for the hit on defense.
I feel like Thibs didn't want Walker/Fournier together because of defense and played them together out of spite, maybe as a FU to WWW or whoever pushed the Walker signing.

Part of it is who is available, but we see Thibs is comfortable with a limited offensive C who is good on defense: Mitch, Noel, Sims.
One of those guys HAS to go. Everyone but Robs wants it to be Noel. :D It'll probably be Mitch, but I worry that Mitch fell out of favor because he's a little goofy and Thibs hates it and Thibs is driving it, but I don't really trust Thibs for a single personnel decision.

Anyway, I think Thibs actually wants a little more offensive production from the C. It's why Taj still gets to play. It's why Taj is taking corner 3's. I think it's Thibs who absolutely wants Myles Turner, where he gets some offense while still maintaining enough defense. I was kind of hoping for Myles Turner offseason and up to the deadline, but not so sure about it now since it's probably Thibs who is driving it and it would cut into Obi's minutes, since Thibs won't play Obi and Randle together, late season MSG disinformation to the contrary.

I think MSG is letting the "Obi will play with Randle" out to maintain leverage in trading either Randle or Obi.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#242 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:09 pm

Hes_On_Fire wrote:Let me just state one thing.

I know Austin Reeves had 36, 16, and 10. I know Brisset on the Pacers had 28 points. I’m well aware a lot of scrubs went off in the last few days.

Nobody thinks Obi is a superstar and he’s suddenly gonna drop 30 consistently. Obi is a 15 and 8 player in this league. He’s super athletic, runs the floor extremely well and always finds himself in a position to score. He doesn’t have much of a creative offensive game otherwise. I know his limitations. He’s not going to take anyone off the dribble. But that doesn’t mean he’s not an efficient scorer and a big that can be an above average asset in today’s NBA. Obi is a lot more of a player built for the modern game then Julius Randle. He’s the guy you build with - not around - because he makes your team better offensively.


Best summary so far

I've been trying to point out Obi is a little dubious making moves in traffic. I should clarify. Obi is pretty good going mostly straight line, north south, to the basket. Left/right or east/west, especially in the paint, is where that really seems to show up.

Anyway, agree with all of the above. For those higher on Obi, I think the compromise is that the above is his floor, which he is already at. Right now. Plug him in and he'll do that, at minimum, strong chance he exceeds it.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#243 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:12 pm

The Lamma wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
snadler wrote:What assets are you willing include to dump Randle’s contract, or which player that’s underperforming yet making a lot of money are you will to take on?

depends on which team will even take him. If bertrans can be moved, anybody can be.


Straight up, yo. LFG!! :lol:

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Need to keep the Dallas Mavknicks tradition going and trade Randle and Mitch and Fournier for Bertrans and Brunson.

BXetcetc get in here!
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#244 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:13 pm

It’s another regimen where if they did nothing but draft we would be so much better off. All the signings are pointless.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#245 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:35 pm

Lonzo would have been a dope fit for Mitch, Obi, RJ, IQ, Grimes
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#246 » by TerrenceClarke » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:36 pm

What this off season will prove is that last off season is prob the worst in the last 20 years. We literally was on the brink of having nothing but youth, cap space and picks. and the Knicks blocked the youth and gave away all the cap space to bums....


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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#247 » by Guano » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:39 pm

I'm sad to see the season end because this was a great resource to make me contemplate the fragility of my mortality and inspire me to make better use of my precious time in this existence.

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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#248 » by snadler » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:50 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Lonzo would have been a dope fit for Mitch, Obi, RJ, IQ, Grimes
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


The same Lonzo that missed how many games this season and would have been bashed for how soft he is?
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#249 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:51 pm

NYKat wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
NYKat wrote:
Thibs screwed the pooch with playing time no doubt about it, that doesn’t automatically mean Obi can be a consistent producer on the big stage though


You’re actually wrong about that. Obi’s production per minute and +/- stats have AFAIK always been the best on the team. He produced even when Thibs would only play him 10 minutes.


Your numbers are apples and oranges….

There’s a difference between producing when you’re a second string rookie contract player vs. being the face of the franchise. You have to understand the NY pressure to know the distinction.


Sorry, but I feel you are wrong again. As I noted earlier. Obi was the only player who actually shone in the playoffs while Randle melted down. Everything about Obi indicates he loves the limelight while Randle is adverse to it. Obi is a NYC kid who is living out his dream and for some reason you're pushing the least believable POV about him. Obi has a perpetual smile at MSG. It is his home court and he's not only comfortable there, Knicks fans adore him. And you're comparing him to an irascible clown like Randle? Just weird
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#250 » by DOT » Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:56 pm

I've been one of the most critical people when it comes to Obi

Probably unreasonably so, at times

While I'm still not convinced on him, he definitely deserves a year of evaluation as a starter before any final judgement

Also, Quick ending the season strong is another good sign. It's just a real indictment of Thibs that Quick played so well as PG down the stretch while Burks was starting and getting 35 mpg

I can understand bringing back Randle, but we really just needed to trust the guys we drafted. So now we go into next year capped out with mediocre guys who really aren't better than their cheap backups

Burks/Rose
Fournier/Quick
RJ/Cam (or Grimes, but not both)
Randle/Obi
Noel/Taj

Is our lineup for next year as of right now. I wouldn't put it past us to take a C at 12 to replace Mitch, and I wouldn't be surprised if we try to start Kemba at PG again next year either to prove we were right to sign him in the first place

I think at the end of the day though, none of the kids we have are really anything special. Like, we still need that #1 guy, which none of the kids project as. So even if we go full youth movement, we're still a ways off, it'll just be more fun to win 35 or so games that way

Whatever happens, we should do a major restructuring of the team over the offseason, if we only make minor moves and try to run it back, we're not gonna go anywhere in either direction. It's like being stuck in mud and choosing to spin the tires instead of moving forward or moving backwards to move forwards.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#251 » by FrozenEnvelope » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:00 pm

Obi couldn't have finished the season any better. He's made it pretty easy for the front office this summer. Either promote him to starter and trade Randle or trade him.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#252 » by evevale » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:04 pm

a glimpse into my nightmares from last night -

Spoiler:
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#253 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:04 pm

snadler wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Lonzo would have been a dope fit for Mitch, Obi, RJ, IQ, Grimes
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


The same Lonzo that missed how many games this season and would have been bashed for how soft he is?


The same Lonzo where the Bulls have fallen apart a bit without him

63% winning percentage with Lonzo
51% winning percentage without

But really, we could use a defender, ball mover, someone who plays well in transition and can play next to any combination of IQ, RJ, Grimes, etc…would have been a nice fit
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#254 » by snadler » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:11 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
snadler wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Lonzo would have been a dope fit for Mitch, Obi, RJ, IQ, Grimes
Spoiler:
Read on Twitter


The same Lonzo that missed how many games this season and would have been bashed for how soft he is?


The same Lonzo where the Bulls have fallen apart a bit without him

63% winning percentage with Lonzo
51% winning percentage without

But really, we could use a defender, ball mover, someone who plays well in transition and can play next to any combination of IQ, RJ, Grimes, etc…would have been a nice fit


It’s meaningless if you can’t be out on the floor, if he signed with the Knicks and missed 55 games you know the fans would be bashing him. I wasn’t upset they didn’t sign him, it was Fournier over derozan was the killer
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#255 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:19 pm

Buzztrodamus prediction:

Rod Strictland being seen around the Knicks, at games, isn't random.
He's getting a position in the org.

When the Knicks fire Thibs, Johnny Bryant gets promoted to head coach.
Now Bryant can't be as focused on development.
Strictland takes over as lead asst coach\in charge of development.

Basically, Rod backfills Bryant's position, replaces some of development lost with Payne, the vet coach void created when Woodson left.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#256 » by TrueWarrior » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:21 pm

The whole “they’re fun, but none of our young guys project as a superstar” angle is an interesting one.

Like yeah we know none of them are going to win an MVP one day. So what? They have the foundation of a very nice team, and if a few can take a leap then who knows what happens. Cant just get rid of everyone who isnt MJ in 2 years.

Look at Jokic these last couple seasons having amazing stats, but his team being nothing special. Same with Embiid. While the Suns have the best record and they dont have a real superstar on their team (Booker is close and CP3 is past that).

Point is even stars need teams to play with. Our youth is better than some give them credit for. Maybe we dont need Brunson if IQ plays like this, and we def dont need Randle bc of Obi.

Even if IQ and Obi become Lillard and Amare that wont be enough to win a ring most likely, but they can still be big parts of a team. There are only a handful of real superstars in the league, and they need teammates too.

Cam is basically another draft pick we picked up, albeit one who needs to get paid soon. Grimes looks like a guy any star would love to play with. Sims cleans the garbage up.

RJ is the biggest question mark, because he has shown the most volume scoring potential to be a “star”, but not very efficiently as everyone knows so his career can go a few ways. He’d really tie the team together if he can up his game another level.
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#257 » by dakomish23 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:23 pm

KDot - he did it

Read on Twitter
Jimmit79 wrote:Yea RJ played well he was definitely the x factor


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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#258 » by DaGawd » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:25 pm

TerrenceClarke wrote:What this off season will prove is that last off season is prob the worst in the last 20 years. We literally was on the brink of having nothing but youth, cap space and picks. and the Knicks blocked the youth and gave away all the cap space to bums....


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Cold hard facts. And it’s funny because if you dig up those off season threads many of us here called it that way lol
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#259 » by Reign23 » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:27 pm

went to the game. was crazy fun considering the low stakes. Obi and IQ looked like stars
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Re: Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle 

Post#260 » by DOT » Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:32 pm

dakomish23 wrote:KDot - he did it

Read on Twitter

Putting this under "reasons why Burks is a fine backup wing but should not be a starting PG"

Also fun fact, despite playing 500 less minutes than Burks, Quick had 40 more assists and 60 more potential assists

Burks being our starting PG for over half the season is only outdone by Payton starting the entire season. Both decisions made by Thibs, so that says a lot about him

Also I remember a lot of people saying Thibs only wanted PGs who could drive and kick, which seems incorrect given the whole Burks thing.
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