Knicks Raps PG: No really, goodbye Randle

[Clyde_Style]

another person not living in reality. sad.

marks was saying he wouldn't trade harden up until the moment he did. has a GM ever said they were going to trade a player publicly?

If anything that means he’s gone

but, but ..... reality

[BugginOut]

Crazy how fast things change in life.

A month ago Obi was hurt and Cam had a few nice games. Cam then gets hurt, and Obi comes back only to barely play again. Looked like a meh end to Obi’s season, until he was finally unleashed. Imagine how good it must feel for him to enter the summer after not only getting some 20 point games, but ending with 30 and 40+ point games too. All the sudden the team has more cover and support needed to trade Julius.

Same with IQ. Things were not lookin good for him this year, until the All Star Break. Now he’s showing maybe we dont need another PG. Who knows though, because we never tried starting him there for a long period of time since Burks needed development lol. Id much rather develop him at point than pay a few bags to Brunson tho.

RJ had a rough rookie year, then had a better soph year on a winning team, then started this season badly but took off after the New Year looking like a star, and then kinda fell into inefficiency again. Next year should tell us whether he can be a real star or just a solid starter.

Grimes rode the bench, then covid happened and he broke out, then he got hurt and ended with a whimper. Hopin for a nice comeback with him.

I dont need to mention Julius’s bumpy ride as a Knick. Point is a lot can change in a short time. Gotta stay patient and see where this goes.

Maybe fans need to realize that these guys are all young players and are human and are going to go through growing pains in their development. Problem with 24/7 media is that everyone is so reactionary after a couple of bad games or long slumps

A lot of things went bad this season. This team isn’t as bad as their record suggests. I’m willing to give everyone a pass on this season, even Randle, and hope our guys can put in the work this offseason to come back next season locked-in

[sol537]

We know the Knicks are going to make a ton of dumb moves but if they just play it slow and steady and not do anything too stupid, we can take the next step on our development as a young team...

1. Trade Randle for an expiring like WB. Grab some 2nds if you can. Buy out WB (or other incoming guy)
*Not Hard*

2. Draft BPA with the 1st rounder and Draft BPA with the 2nd rounder. 2-way players... again, please. We actually draft pretty well.
*Not Hard*

3. If Mitch wants to stay on a fair 4-year deal, great... otherwise, S&T or let him walk.
*Not Hard*

4. Grab a vet PG for 2-years like Ricky Rubio(my guy!) and hand the keys to the kids... RJ + IQ + Obi... they earned a shot.
*Not Hard*

5. Dump one or both of Burks and/or Fournier. Both are very tradeable.
*Not Hard*

Keep Thibs or dump Thibs... there's pluses and minuses either way... just take away his damn veteran "toys". A goal of 40-40 or better next season with plenty of player development would be a huge win.

[thebuzzardman]

anyone calling obi a super star cause of yesterday's game is on some super knicks homerism schit

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

[rajajackal]

anyone calling obi a super star cause of yesterday's game is on some super knicks homerism schit

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

i've always said, i don't need obi to have an all around skillset comparable to randle's for him to be my preferred option at PF, especially for his contract. i don't need my PF to be the primary ball handler or even the best player on the team. obi is projecting as a quality starting 4 and if he's not part of the future when his rookie deal is done we can revisit it then

[3toheadmelo]

anyone calling obi a super star cause of yesterday's game is on some super knicks homerism schit

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

yeah Clyde style is one of them who called Obi an a super star

[j4remi]

IQs Per 36 Minutes since the all start break 23 game sample size

GP GS MIN FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

23 1 632 6.4 14.7 43.6 2.8 7.3 38.3 5.2 6.1 85.2 0.6 6.2 6.8 6.3 1.2 0.0 1.7 2.6 20.9

Basically putting up Lamelo like numbers on a per minute basis.

Give the PG keys to him next year and watch him ascend the way a guy like Garland did this year.

The pro start IQ at PG argument - besides the fact that the stats say the Knicks play MUCH better offensively and defensively when he starts:

Spacing from the PG spot
Faster getting the team into it's sets/actions - most of the time. Every now and then last year's bad habit comes back
MUCH improved decision making
MUCH improved reading the floor/passing
Better at driving the ball, still a work in progress
Better mid range jumper off the dribble or after the dribble is picked up

Last one I wanted to put by itself, because it was really noticeable to me in this game, but also the last 10 games, is that while IQ might not have a great handle - and some argue if he doesn't by now, he won't, but he's gotten a LOT better at hesitation and changing pace - basically the things that make "slow" point players effective without the burst - guys like Andre Miller in the past, Giddy now, etc. And IQ is fast. It could really be the key to unlocking his ability to run PG as a starter

Argument against IQ starting at PG
He's 22, so it's not necessarily wrong to have someone else start for 3 years, who does all the things well, as long as IQ gets 30+ mpg backing up PG and wing.

The speed changes are definitely visible. He used to only hit that slow down when he was right in front of the defender to draw a whistle, but now he hits the hesi with defenders on his hip. I think that comes from the fact that he's driving THROUGH the basket now. Post-ASB IQ took less floaters and finished lay-ups by driving straight in without stopping.

And that's not the only part of his bag that expanded. He's added a push dribble to split defenders that hedge or trap. It's a Kemba Walker go-to that I noticed a lot early in the season. Push that ball out far and chase it down to catch defenders flat-footed while you pass by without risk of being stripped. I only noticed IQ adding it in the past few weeks and yesterday he had a really dramatic one (covered a ton of distance with one dribble).

[thebuzzardman]

anyone calling obi a super star cause of yesterday's game is on some super knicks homerism schit

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

yeah Clyde style is one of them who called Obi an a super star

My talking anus gifs have him a little shook up

[thebuzzardman]

IQs Per 36 Minutes since the all start break 23 game sample size

GP GS MIN FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

23 1 632 6.4 14.7 43.6 2.8 7.3 38.3 5.2 6.1 85.2 0.6 6.2 6.8 6.3 1.2 0.0 1.7 2.6 20.9

Basically putting up Lamelo like numbers on a per minute basis.

Give the PG keys to him next year and watch him ascend the way a guy like Garland did this year.

The pro start IQ at PG argument - besides the fact that the stats say the Knicks play MUCH better offensively and defensively when he starts:

Spacing from the PG spot
Faster getting the team into it's sets/actions - most of the time. Every now and then last year's bad habit comes back
MUCH improved decision making
MUCH improved reading the floor/passing
Better at driving the ball, still a work in progress
Better mid range jumper off the dribble or after the dribble is picked up

Last one I wanted to put by itself, because it was really noticeable to me in this game, but also the last 10 games, is that while IQ might not have a great handle - and some argue if he doesn't by now, he won't, but he's gotten a LOT better at hesitation and changing pace - basically the things that make "slow" point players effective without the burst - guys like Andre Miller in the past, Giddy now, etc. And IQ is fast. It could really be the key to unlocking his ability to run PG as a starter

Argument against IQ starting at PG
He's 22, so it's not necessarily wrong to have someone else start for 3 years, who does all the things well, as long as IQ gets 30+ mpg backing up PG and wing.

The speed changes are definitely visible. He used to only hit that slow down when he was right in front of the defender to draw a whistle, but now he hits the hesi with defenders on his hip. I think that comes from the fact that he's driving THROUGH the basket now. Post-ASB IQ took less floaters and finished lay-ups by driving straight in without stopping.

And that's not the only part of his bag that expanded. He's added a push dribble to split defenders that hedge or trap. It's a Kemba Walker go-to that I noticed a lot early in the season. Push that ball out far and chase it down to catch defenders flat-footed while you pass by without risk of being stripped. I only noticed IQ adding it in the past few weeks and yesterday he had a really dramatic one (covered a ton of distance with one dribble).

Dare we say the Knicks have done some development with the youth?

[rajajackal]

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

yeah Clyde style is one of them who called Obi an a super star

My talking anus gifs have him a little shook up

i thought you were clyde_style's alt until he clutched his pearls at your debauchery

[Jimmit79]

I doubt the Knicks want to pay RJ after latest rankings showing him tier 5. Which leads me to believe he will be traded in a package for superstar this off-season.

[strummer]

Crazy how fast things change in life.

A month ago Obi was hurt and Cam had a few nice games. Cam then gets hurt, and Obi comes back only to barely play again. Looked like a meh end to Obi’s season, until he was finally unleashed. Imagine how good it must feel for him to enter the summer after not only getting some 20 point games, but ending with 30 and 40+ point games too. All the sudden the team has more cover and support to trade Julius too.

Same with IQ. Things were not lookin good for him this year, until the All Star Break. Now he’s showing maybe we dont need another PG. Who knows though, because we never tried starting him there for a long period of time since Burks needed development lol. Id much rather develop him at point than pay a few bags to Brunson tho.

RJ had a rough rookie year, then had a better soph year on a winning team, then started this season badly but took off after the New Year looking like a star, and then kinda fell into inefficiency again. Next year should tell us whether he can be a real star or just a solid starter.

Grimes rode the bench, then covid happened and he broke out, then he got hurt and ended with a whimper. Hopin for a nice comeback with him.

I dont need to mention Julius’s bumpy ride as a Knick. Point is a lot can change in a short time. Gotta stay patient and see where this goes.

Yeah, next year needs to be a "lets see what we got" year.

Start IQ and Obi.

Of course RJ.

If Mitch can stay on a contract that works for both parties, great. If not, find a solid 5 to go along with Sims.

Start one of and/or rotate in Grimes and Reddish 20+ minutes/game. Get McBride 15 minutes/game.

Keep Rose (or maybe even start, but limit his minutes) - great guy, hard worker, effective player, seems to be good influence on and off the court. Helpful to have a player like that with a young core.

We can keep Fournier off the bench. He's a good team player, useful veteran to have around and can light it up when he is "on" (when he is not, no need to get more than 15 minutes).

Keep Taj around for "veteran presence" & third/emergency 5.

I don't have a problem with Walker staying around if, like Fournier, it is off the bench/3rd guard/minutes when hot/no minutes if not type role. Or Burks in that role - don't need both Walker and Burks though.

Randle and Noel aren't a fit going forward. So whatever you can get from a Randle trade use for bench depth, fill the Mitchell hole or future value.

Use the draft to get BPA.

They need to resist all temptation to give more minutes to mediocre vets. I have little doubt the young core and some existing vets can outperform the 20-21 version Knicks.

[Capn'O]

Some folks are getting too wrapped up in body language analysis like we did with Melo. We just don't know what the relationships are.

The issue with Julius is we have the pieces for an up tempo, high movement offense and Julius is a halfcourt ball stopper, and not an elite one at that. RJ has similar issues as a #1 in a half court offense but is well suited for pace as well. If the Knicks move on from Randle:

- best case, they can take a step forward with their younger personnel.
- worst case, you at least see what you have and go back to the drawing board

But if you keep him the team is pulled in two directions from a stylistic standpoint and you end up with the mess on the floor we saw for much of the season.

[DaGawd]

Crazy how fast things change in life.

A month ago Obi was hurt and Cam had a few nice games. Cam then gets hurt, and Obi comes back only to barely play again. Looked like a meh end to Obi’s season, until he was finally unleashed. Imagine how good it must feel for him to enter the summer after not only getting some 20 point games, but ending with 30 and 40+ point games too. All the sudden the team has more cover and support needed to trade Julius.

Same with IQ. Things were not lookin good for him this year, until the All Star Break. Now he’s showing maybe we dont need another PG. Who knows though, because we never tried starting him there for a long period of time since Burks needed development lol. Id much rather develop him at point than pay a few bags to Brunson tho.

RJ had a rough rookie year, then had a better soph year on a winning team, then started this season badly but took off after the New Year looking like a star, and then kinda fell into inefficiency again. Next year should tell us whether he can be a real star or just a solid starter.

Grimes rode the bench, then covid happened and he broke out, then he got hurt and ended with a whimper. Hopin for a nice comeback with him.

I dont need to mention Julius’s bumpy ride as a Knick. Point is a lot can change in a short time. Gotta stay patient and see where this goes.

Maybe fans need to realize that these guys are all young players and are human and are going to go through growing pains in their development. Problem with 24/7 media is that everyone is so reactionary after a couple of bad games or long slumps

A lot of things went bad this season. This team isn’t as bad as their record suggests. I’m willing to give everyone a pass on this season, even Randle, and hope our guys can put in the work this offseason to come back next season locked-in

Ahhh hell naw

[Jalen Bluntson]

The only way they can justify keeping Randle is if Mitch walks and Thibs moves him to the 5 and takes the ball out of his hands by letting the guards run the offense. IOW...in a limited role at the position he best fits here. I never want to see him bring the ball up the court ever again. They won't bench him. If they don't trade him...this is the only way he makes sense on this team.

[Capn'O]

Gotta keep hope that they see the light. But Knicks will always make dumb decisions so maybe they do keep him

i mean you also supported the knicks extending him for another 4 years. so now you gotta live with that.

I tried talking myself into Randle but that was a big mistake. If it was up to me I would have traded him for Batum and tanked last year so I don’t have to support anything

Overall though I don’t buy anything Rose was saying, He was better off not saying anything if he was just going to do a puff piece and not field questions

I mean, if he had played like he did last year it would have been a great contract and you kinda deal with the fact that your franchise is going in two directions until you find the right move to correct it. This year, he came in out of shape and didn't play as hard on D or look to move the ball as much. He just doesn't really fit. Who knows what the brass will do but the right direction is pretty clear.

[Clyde_Style]

Is anyone doing that?

Maybe fans just want the cheap (for now) young guy who is decent, but maybe the team caps out at 35 wins, over the sullen vet making 30 million a year leading the team to 38 wins.

yeah Clyde style is one of them who called Obi an a super star

My talking anus gifs have him a little shook up

[Jimmit79]

Read on Twitter

?t=4oYgj5fZmRqkeQpRmHYxvw&s=19

Lot of ppl think paying RJ max is disaster waiting to happen

[Clyde_Style]

[thebuzzardman]

yeah Clyde style is one of them who called Obi an a super star

My talking anus gifs have him a little shook up

i thought you were clyde_style's alt until he clutched his pearls at your debauchery

He's just busting on me like he does to everyone, like we all do