Westbrook on Vogel: “I don’t know what his issue was with me”

[bbalnation]

You are reading way to much into it. I’m just saying that as a grad I root for and identify with others affiliated with the school, and the way he’s behaving is disappointing.

I was not in any way comparing myself to him. He’s way better at basketball than I’ll ever be at anything.

Im not reading too much into it.

I have a different view on what rooting for a player looks like. Thanks for clarifying that.

Fine, reading the wrong thing. You said “the way I read this is” then proceeded to say something that wasn’t in any way related to where I was coming from.

And that’s okay. My initial post was worded generally.

Thanks for articulating that.

Cheers .

[sp6r=underrated]

Are people getting A.I vibes from this guy? Like this guy is so stubborn and thick headed.

The longevity of players in the lineage of players Russell belongs to is probably the poorest of any player typology.

There have been great ball dominant, high usage, mediocre efficiency offensive players in league history. Russ is one of em. Contrary to revisionism, Russ was a great player.

But this type of player ages very poorly. Isiah, AI and others were all out of the league very young relative to other HOFers. The reason is this type of player when they lose a little of bit athleticism go from being helpful to extremely harmful and their skill-set doesn't lend itself to a supporting role.

So typically the last year or two is painful

[mulamutti]

As a UCLA grad it's difficult to articulate how disappointing I find Russell Westbrook to be.

Interesting.

The way i read this: you're putting yourself out there (digitally) to say your professional career to Russell Westbrook wouldn't be disappointing compared to the decisions he's made.

Im sure your professional career features more accolades and achievements than his (relatively and respectively in the industry).

Someone already posted his basketball references link. It's also worth noting he was voted by someone to the NBAs top 75 list (historically, in his profession, in 2022, regardless of 1 season).

I think he's saying that UCLA grads have trouble articulating things, u know cuz the school sucks. I know nothing about UCLA, but that's how I read his statement.

[Big J]

Are people getting A.I vibes from this guy? Like this guy is so stubborn and thick headed.

The longevity of players in the lineage of players Russell belongs to is probably the poorest of any player typology.

There have been great ball dominant, high usage, mediocre efficiency offensive players in league history. Russ is one of em. Contrary to revisionism, Russ was a great player.

But this type of player ages very poorly. Isiah, AI and others were all out of the league very young relative to other HOFers. The reason is this type of player when they lose a little of bit athleticism go from being helpful to extremely harmful and their skill-set doesn't lend itself to a supporting role.

So typically the last year or two is painful

Couldn’t that type of player hypothetically be an awesome 6th man engine who carry’s the second unit a la Bobby Jackson.

[sp6r=underrated]

Lol we just un-stickied the Lakers mega thread and immediately got a new Vogel thread, a new Bron thread, a new Russ thread, there's an Austin Reaves thread, and an old Lakers thread was bumped.

Bless your poor heart.

What I can never figure out is that the Lakers forum is basically dead. It was never one of the bigger groups, certainly not like the Knicks or the Bulls or Bucks or definitely not the Raptors. But it was relatively vibrant when I joined and for years after that. And it's just withered away to almost nothing recently. But you head out here to the GB and every other topic is about them. It's weird.

At a glance, I'm shocked how dead it is given the size of the fanbase. On the First page there is a thread whose last post was on March 28th. Knicks is yesterday. Washington is 4/7.

Based on market size the most dormant page is the rockets. They have a thread whose last post is 5/7/2001. This by the way is why I think tanking isn't costless the way pro-tanking fans make it out to be. A huge fanbase will just completely tune out from the team during an epic tank job.

I thinks LakersGround took most of the Lakers fans. The GB is dominated by Lakers haters.

[bbalnation]

As a UCLA grad it's difficult to articulate how disappointing I find Russell Westbrook to be.

Interesting.

The way i read this: you're putting yourself out there (digitally) to say your professional career to Russell Westbrook wouldn't be disappointing compared to the decisions he's made.

Im sure your professional career features more accolades and achievements than his (relatively and respectively in the industry).

Someone already posted his basketball references link. It's also worth noting he was voted by someone to the NBAs top 75 list (historically, in his profession, in 2022, regardless of 1 season).

I think he's saying that UCLA grads have trouble articulating things, u know cuz the school sucks. I know nothing about UCLA, but that's how I read his statement.

Looool.

I appreciate a lot of Snakebites' posts: they're direct, clear, and his basketball POV is insightful to me (esp when I see Pistons ball).

I know u kid but im taking this as a chance lool. Its a great institution (by virtue of a lot funding going to it): and thats fine(ish).

The College Admissions Scandal on Netflix / online streaming platforms / media websites was interesting to me fwiw, as a person who has had access to post-secondary institutions in Canada, with similar parallels in education systems growing up (imo).

[sp6r=underrated]

Are people getting A.I vibes from this guy? Like this guy is so stubborn and thick headed.

The longevity of players in the lineage of players Russell belongs to is probably the poorest of any player typology.

There have been great ball dominant, high usage, mediocre efficiency offensive players in league history. Russ is one of em. Contrary to revisionism, Russ was a great player.

But this type of player ages very poorly. Isiah, AI and others were all out of the league very young relative to other HOFers. The reason is this type of player when they lose a little of bit athleticism go from being helpful to extremely harmful and their skill-set doesn't lend itself to a supporting role.

So typically the last year or two is painful

Couldn’t that type of player hypothetically be an awesome 6th man engine who carry’s the second unit a la Bobby Jackson.

Theoretically they could have value in this role but most of em just aren't able to adapt. And I think the reason is fairly obvious and understandable. It is really hard for players who dominated their teams offenses to accept or understand why going to a 20 mpg role and in that role still being slightly less aggressive than they used to be is required for them maintaining value.

[Capn'O]

Bless your poor heart.

What I can never figure out is that the Lakers forum is basically dead. It was never one of the bigger groups, certainly not like the Knicks or the Bulls or Bucks or definitely not the Raptors. But it was relatively vibrant when I joined and for years after that. And it's just withered away to almost nothing recently. But you head out here to the GB and every other topic is about them. It's weird.

At a glance, I'm shocked how dead it is given the size of the fanbase. On the First page there is a thread whose last post was on March 28th. Knicks is yesterday. Washington is 4/7.

Based on market size the most dormant page is the rockets. They have a thread whose last post is 5/7/2001. This by the way is why I think tanking isn't costless the way pro-tanking fans make it out to be. A huge fanbase will just completely tune out from the team during an epic tank job.

I thinks LakersGround took most of the Lakers fans. The GB is dominated by Lakers haters.

That's my take. LakersGround and ClutchSports for the Rox are the main discussion venues for those teams.

[LAL1947]

In your hate you forgot all Russ buyers PAY FOR HIM.

Yeah but only because there's a sucker born every minute. Not because Russ is worth was paid for him.

[KembaWalker]

I think its going under the radar that he also trashed Davis and LBJ in his exit conference

The 2017 league MVP also said that LeBron James' and Anthony Davis' repeated intentions to "let Russ be Russ" in unlocking the best version of the former All-Star were disingenuous.

"Yeah, [they said it]," Westbrook said. "But that wasn't true."

the amount of ego a man has to have to endure 20k home fans booing you, a coaching staff that doesnt like you, and calling out a top 5 all time player and duo (trio if you want to include Vogel) that just won a (bubble) championship 2 years ago and come out of that experience saying "everyone else was the problem" is just unfathomable to me. this man is living in a different UNIVERSE than the rest of us

[sp6r=underrated]

I think its going under the radar that he also trashed Davis and LBJ in his exit conference

The 2017 league MVP also said that LeBron James' and Anthony Davis' repeated intentions to "let Russ be Russ" in unlocking the best version of the former All-Star were disingenuous.

"Yeah, [they said it]," Westbrook said. "But that wasn't true."

the amount of ego a man has to have to endure 20k home fans booing you, a coaching staff that doesnt like you, and calling out a top 5 all time player and duo (trio if you want to include Vogel) that just won a (bubble) championship 2 years ago and come out of that experience saying "everyone else was the problem" is just unfathomable to me. this man is living in a different UNIVERSE than the rest of us

I remember years ago reading an interview with an aging model and she said something like I was the last to know my beauty was gone. I still saw a 22 year old in the mirror.

[DTP]

Westbrook is the most stubborn and least self-aware player I've ever seen. This is a major prediction but I don't think he will be in the NBA after next year. Even though he can still play, no team will want his attitude. He will be like Melo before Melo humbled himself. I don't see Russell ever humbling himself.

This is even worse than Melo....Melo was never this bad. Its such a shame man....I use to love Russ so much but this season has been a total turn off. While I do share disappointment that LeBron didn't do enough to make this work.....(it was never going to work with LeBron not coming off the ball and he refused to do it), Russ runs into the first head coach to actually hold him accountable for stuff and this is how he responds. Smh

You should look up off-ball stats for LeBron this year.

Care to share?

[PistolPeteJR]

Come on now. Think about it from Westbrook's perspective, look at how things have gone for him: He got $300m, personal awards, praise and media attention over 14 years, and now all of a sudden you're gonna tell him he's doing it wrong? Nah, you're doing it wrong. He just does what he always did, which made him tremendously successful beyond his wildest imagination, and he ain't changing it any time soon. If you don't like it that's your problem, shouldn't have brought him along. End of story.

Okay, let’s try.

From Westbrook’s perspective: “I’ve yet to make it past the 1st round since KD and I split, and I’ve yet to win a chip or come close to it in my entire career as a top 1 to top 3 option on my team.”

If that ^ doesn’t lead him to questioning his methods, I don’t know what will.

U have to work best your hate man

Russ has already won a playoffs series without kd

Game 7 win against an OKC team that had no place doing that? (And he didn’t even play lol)

Okay man.

[Asianiac_24]

Most overrated basketball player of all time. To be honest, I'd rather have Jeff Teague than Russell Westbrook, even in their primes. At least Jeff Teague doesn't put a ceiling on the team.

[ken6199]

“Russ [Westbrook) never respected Frank [Vogel] from Day 1,” said one Lakers staff member with knowledge of the situation. “The moment Frank said anybody who gets the rebound can bring it up the court, which is just how the NBA is played these days, Russ was like, ‘Naw, I’m the point guard. Give the ball to me. Everybody run. Frank was like, ‘No, we have Talen [Horton-Tucker)] We have Austin [Reaves]. We have Malik. We have LeBron. We have AD. They can all bring the ball up.’ He was like, ‘Nope, I’m the point guard. Give me that s—. Everybody get out the way.

“From that point on, in training camp, it was a wrap, ‘cause now Russ is a fish out of water. He doesn’t know what to do. That’s how that started.”

https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/story/2022-04-08/inside-la-lakers-disappointing-season-lebron-james-anthony-davis

Read that yesterday, if true, basically they got off to a terrible start and there was no return. I don't really think that was a hill for Westbrook to die on though, not sure why that's even a big deal (well I guess triple doubles), but that's unfortunate.

Any stories with "unknown member from a LA staffer disclosed xxx" is likely exaggerated (but not out of nowhere). I agree Russ does not deserve to die on a hill of playing bad, but his "why not" and "I am always right" mentality, that's his hill to die on. Even the smartest guy on the world needs to listen to others and be told when they are wrong.

[PistolPeteJR]

This is even worse than Melo....Melo was never this bad. Its such a shame man....I use to love Russ so much but this season has been a total turn off. While I do share disappointment that LeBron didn't do enough to make this work.....(it was never going to work with LeBron not coming off the ball and he refused to do it), Russ runs into the first head coach to actually hold him accountable for stuff and this is how he responds. Smh

You should look up off-ball stats for LeBron this year.

Care to share?

Sure. An example is his FGM %AST this year at 44.5%, the highest since his sophomore season.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/2544

[The Laker Kid]

Do you sometimes ask yourself... Why do I always end up with a psycho in a relationship? I always ask this.. not just in life, but also in basketball.

[Betta Bulleavit]

For me personally, any take that attempts to depict any one figure as being the “primary problem” in this situation with the Lakers loses credibility with me right off the bat. You can’t look at this situation from any angle and pretend that the meltdown didn’t happened at virtually every level. From the FO to the Coaching staff to the players. It all factored in.

In my honest opinion, if I had to dole out blame, it would be as follows:

50% - FO
20% - Injuries
20% - Coaching (even if you believe the unnamed sources, the coach still played Russ game in and game out)
5% - Russ (for being pretty much what he’s always been)
5% - LeBron (because he advocated for Russ)

My point is, even if you believe that the Lakers problem started with Russ, they didn’t end with him. And considering that the Lakers had to go through the play-in last season just to get dominated by the Suns (when Russ wasn’t even there) it’s questionable to me whether or not this situation truly started with Russ.

[timO]

Okay, let’s try.

From Westbrook’s perspective: “I’ve yet to make it past the 1st round since KD and I split, and I’ve yet to win a chip or come close to it in my entire career as a top 1 to top 3 option on my team.”

If that ^ doesn’t lead him to questioning his methods, I don’t know what will.

U have to work best your hate man

Russ has already won a playoffs series without kd

Game 7 win against an OKC team that had no place doing that? (And he didn’t even play lol)

Okay man.

he play with injury in the games 5-6-7

Houston were tied 2-2 with okc, then 4-3

another cheap hater destroyed

[timO]

I think its going under the radar that he also trashed Davis and LBJ in his exit conference

The 2017 league MVP also said that LeBron James' and Anthony Davis' repeated intentions to "let Russ be Russ" in unlocking the best version of the former All-Star were disingenuous.

"Yeah, [they said it]," Westbrook said. "But that wasn't true."

the amount of ego a man has to have to endure 20k home fans booing you, a coaching staff that doesnt like you, and calling out a top 5 all time player and duo (trio if you want to include Vogel) that just won a (bubble) championship 2 years ago and come out of that experience saying "everyone else was the problem" is just unfathomable to me. this man is living in a different UNIVERSE than the rest of us

ego for saying the truth?, they dont let him play his way, or make him play SG ike dantoni did

and still played 78 games, 38 more than day to davis and 22 more than the other stat padder

they change the game plan for him every game, u can see it if u know Russ, but u dont, u are only haters hating on him

btw hornets are a suitor for him

a shame because he make u a playoff team, Lamelo can learn something to being more than a peasant star