2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3)

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

Who will win MVP?

Demar DeRozan
5
1%
Devin Booker
19
5%
Giannis Antetokounpo
120
30%
Ja Morant
3
1%
Jayson Tatum
18
4%
Joel Embiid
38
9%
Kevin Durant
2
0%
Luka Doncic
22
5%
Nikola Jokic
176
43%
Steph Curry
3
1%
 
Total votes: 406

AleksandarN
General Manager
Posts: 9,315
And1: 12,799
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2621 » by AleksandarN » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:40 am

BoatsNZones wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:There’s still no definitive proof that Jalen voted for Embiid other than someone ITT saying he did


I just watched Jalen Rose’s video (Jalen and Jacoby) from yesterday (because I guess I have to do it myself lol). He never said anything about voting for Embiid. The day before he confirmed he was voting for Jokic. Yesterday he just talked about the candidates, but he never said he was switching votes.

So, unless there’s some other video out there I missed from him, he voted for Jokic.

He literally publicly switched 4 times in the final week and ended on "idk" yesterday (I did see the clip). Lol, so it's fair to throw his out unless he stated his actual picks today.

It's going to be very close for 2/3. Jokic ran away with MVP.


edit: Just pulled up their podcast today. He did in fact land on Jokic (ballot is in). COY he took Jenkins. DPOY he took Smart.

correct I was wrong

Wolfgang630
RealGM
Posts: 21,444
And1: 20,543
Joined: Feb 07, 2016
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2622 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:57 am

Yeah thought it was a little weird he was so much on Jokic to only change one day later and nothing even happened in the NBA.
Wolfgang630
RealGM
Posts: 21,444
And1: 20,543
Joined: Feb 07, 2016
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2623 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:23 pm

User avatar
Sharkboy242
Analyst
Posts: 3,192
And1: 4,827
Joined: Feb 19, 2017
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2624 » by Sharkboy242 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:15 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker

Where is that Mr B guy to tell us we’re wrong?
Wolfgang630
RealGM
Posts: 21,444
And1: 20,543
Joined: Feb 07, 2016
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2625 » by Wolfgang630 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 5:43 pm

Sharkboy242 wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker

Where is that Mr B guy to tell us we’re wrong?

It’s crickets now from him.
velkisimo
Sophomore
Posts: 229
And1: 209
Joined: Aug 07, 2013

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2626 » by velkisimo » Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:05 pm

I'm surprised no one mentioned KD's pick and a quote yet. Especially that one about leading the league in points AND double-doubles part :P
User avatar
Sharkboy242
Analyst
Posts: 3,192
And1: 4,827
Joined: Feb 19, 2017
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2627 » by Sharkboy242 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:13 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:
Sharkboy242 wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker

Where is that Mr B guy to tell us we’re wrong?

It’s crickets now from him.

Him and Hussein must answer for their crimes
AleksandarN
General Manager
Posts: 9,315
And1: 12,799
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2628 » by AleksandarN » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:15 pm

Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker


Look at the all nba tab on the spreadsheet. Jokic and Embiid might split the forward vote. What would be crazy if kat sneaks in first all nba team or second all nba team over either one. Dumb that they qualified both Jokic and Embiid at both forward and Center.
Mickey8
Head Coach
Posts: 6,376
And1: 5,233
Joined: Jan 21, 2017

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2629 » by Mickey8 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:24 pm

;ab_channel=NBAonESPN

Its ok that he supports Embiid but why he has to pull up the stats out of his butt :roll: Jokic have about 20 more double doubles than Embiid and he's leading the league in that statistical category. And all i see hating on Giannis and Jokic in the mainstream media while Embiid clearly have the support of every major tv network. Durant would perfectly fit as the mainstream media pundit :wink:
User avatar
Ryoga Hibiki
RealGM
Posts: 12,595
And1: 7,761
Joined: Nov 14, 2001
Location: Warszawa now, but from Northern Italy

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2630 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:37 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker


Look at the all nba tab on the spreadsheet. Jokic and Embiid might split the forward vote. What would be crazy if kat sneaks in first all nba team or second all nba team over either one. Dumb that they qualified both Jokic and Embiid at both forward and Center.
This can't happen. The issue is here that both Embiid and Jokic will end up being listed as centers because what counts is in what position you will receive more votes.
I think Philly will be more salty than the Dead Sea.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app
Слава Украине!
AleksandarN
General Manager
Posts: 9,315
And1: 12,799
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2631 » by AleksandarN » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:00 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1KMzwRcilLDej0BWl7eYE_OYC9Tx9olI_Ptn-nHjKfpQ/htmlview#gid=643451732

The lead continues to grow for Joker


Look at the all nba tab on the spreadsheet. Jokic and Embiid might split the forward vote. What would be crazy if kat sneaks in first all nba team or second all nba team over either one. Dumb that they qualified both Jokic and Embiid at both forward and Center.
This can't happen. The issue is here that both Embiid and Jokic will end up being listed as centers because what counts is in what position you will receive more votes.
I think Philly will be more salty than the Dead Sea.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app


It can because it can take away votes if they get votes for forward. They lose those points. Jokic already lost 4 votes as he was voted as first team forward.
losmi
Junior
Posts: 407
And1: 591
Joined: Jan 26, 2022

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2632 » by losmi » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:33 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
Look at the all nba tab on the spreadsheet. Jokic and Embiid might split the forward vote. What would be crazy if kat sneaks in first all nba team or second all nba team over either one. Dumb that they qualified both Jokic and Embiid at both forward and Center.
This can't happen. The issue is here that both Embiid and Jokic will end up being listed as centers because what counts is in what position you will receive more votes.
I think Philly will be more salty than the Dead Sea.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app


It can because it can take away votes if they get votes for forward. They lose those points. Jokic already lost 4 votes as he was voted as first team forward.


All points are combined. If Jokic gets 51 votes as a center and 49 votes as a forward, it's the same as if he had all 100 votes as a center.
AleksandarN
General Manager
Posts: 9,315
And1: 12,799
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2633 » by AleksandarN » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:42 pm

losmi wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:This can't happen. The issue is here that both Embiid and Jokic will end up being listed as centers because what counts is in what position you will receive more votes.
I think Philly will be more salty than the Dead Sea.

___
Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app


It can because it can take away votes if they get votes for forward. They lose those points. Jokic already lost 4 votes as he was voted as first team forward.


All points are combined. If Jokic gets 51 votes as a center and 49 votes as a forward, it's the same as if he had all 100 votes as a center.


It doesn’t work that way. Votes only count for the position they are voted in
losmi
Junior
Posts: 407
And1: 591
Joined: Jan 26, 2022

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2634 » by losmi » Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:57 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
losmi wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
It can because it can take away votes if they get votes for forward. They lose those points. Jokic already lost 4 votes as he was voted as first team forward.


All points are combined. If Jokic gets 51 votes as a center and 49 votes as a forward, it's the same as if he had all 100 votes as a center.


It doesn’t work that way. Votes only count for the position they are voted in


Check the voting from the last year:

https://pr.nba.com/voting-results-2020-21-nba-regular-season-awards/

Jokic and Embiid had some votes as 1st team forwards, but at the end all points were combined.
HotRocks34
RealGM
Posts: 17,198
And1: 21,129
Joined: Jun 23, 2007

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2635 » by HotRocks34 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:04 pm

Ok so according to the spreadsheet we're 40% done on knowing how votes have gone (40/100 votes in; or 101 votes with the fan vote).

Let's look at the numbers and the trends.

I'm going to modify the "points" stat from the spreadsheet because some of the ballots only have first place marked. So the points are a good guide but not a definite landmark right now.

Jokic won the straw poll by 141 points over Embiid (860-719). Also key in that straw poll was that Jokic had 93 first- and second-place votes, and he was on every ballot. That is, more than 90% of his points came at 10 (first) or 7 (second). That can matter in the end.

Straw poll votes/points. Scroll down for table of points/votes:
https://tinyurl.com/k9fvexr5

Embiid, on the other hand, had 34 third-place (5 points) votes in the straw poll, and 66 (first + second) votes.

Right now this is about what we have. Guesstimate on points, certainty on first place votes. Numbers not exact, but should be in the ballpark. I'm guessing on the distribution of the second- and third-place votes, trying to work off of what was seen in the straw poll (Jokic likely get more seconds than thirds, etc).

Spreadsheet link:
https://tinyurl.com/4v4bzhh8

First place votes in = 40 of 101
Jokic...........28 first place votes.............around 351 points or so (adding 3 seconds, 2 thirds)
Embiid.........08 first place votes.............around 267 points or so (adding 4 seconds, 2 thirds) [-84 points from Jokic]
Giannis........04 first place votes.............(not sure how many points)



Voting trends

I said in a post above that I expected/thought that at least 3 known voters (rather than speculated voters; see the spreadsheet) may/would vote for Embiid. Two of the three have since announced their votes (Shelburne and Stephen A), and both voted for Embiid.

Votes (1st) for Embiid by outlet:

ESPN...............4 votes for Embiid so far (of 9 cast; other 5 for Jokic)
SI...................1 votes for Embiid so far (of 3 cast; other 2 for Jokic)
Turner.............1 votes for Embiid so far (of 3 cast; other 2 for Jokic)
FS1................1 votes for Embiid so far (of 2 cast; other 1 for Giannis........Bucher, Broussard)
BeIN Sports.......1 votes for Embiid so far (of 1 cast)...............................French outlet

ESPN seems to be the biggest Embiid supporter by far. Of course, they probably will end up with the most votes of any outlet. Still, if Embiid has a voting "base" then ESPN seems to be it. I also think that Yahoo (at least one vote, maybe several) could be similarly pro-Embiid. We'll see.

Here are some other vote trends.

Non-USA outlets........5/6 firsts so far to Jokic (other to Embiid)......[Tencent, Movistar+, BeIN, Toronto Star, La Gazzetta]
The Athletic.............4/5 firsts so far to Jokic (other to Giannis)
The Ringer...............3/4 firsts so far to Jokic (other to Giannis)
NBC Sports...............2/2 firsts so far to Jokic
Sirius Radio..............2/2 firsts so far to Jokic
Local USA papers.......2/2 firsts so far to Jokic (includes homer Denver Post, and Sacramento Bee)



Conclusion

If you look at the rest of the Known/Potential Voters lists, there are about 17 more possible ESPN/Yahoo votes. If all of them went to Embiid (which they almost certainly won't if that many votes come in from those two outlets), that would take him to 25 first place votes. Still a long way from the win and, given what the info above shows, with maybe not a ton more 'bankable' votes possibly out there. Probably some, but likely not enough, IMO.

I'm guessing Embiid ends up with somewhere between 15-30 first place votes. More exactly, I'm thinking low- to mid-20's. He got 29 on the straw poll and I'm thinking that number comes down slightly, while the combined (Jokic + Giannis first) figure goes up slightly (was 71 on the straw poll).

We'll know more soon, or hopefully we will. I think it's clear now that Jokic almost certainly wins. Given that he was on all the ballots of the straw poll and that 93% of his votes were firsts or seconds, I'll personally feel the race is "officially" over if/when Jokic reaches like 55 firsts. At that point (if not before) I think it will become (depending on where Giannis is, too) essentially mathematically impossible for Jokic not to win with the consideration that he should appear on every ballot, and appear high (based on the straw poll data).
Jokic 31/21/22
Luka & Oscar = 5 x 27/8/8
The Brodie = All-out energy
Castle Black
Head Coach
Posts: 6,683
And1: 17,277
Joined: Jul 21, 2017
       

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2636 » by Castle Black » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:02 pm

Mike Wilbon admitting on television that he didn’t have Jokic in his top-3 for MVP Voting is wild and feels borderline racist :lol:
Image
bradybunch
Rookie
Posts: 1,003
And1: 1,475
Joined: Feb 08, 2021

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2637 » by bradybunch » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:07 pm

Castle Black wrote:Mike Wilbon admitting on television that he didn’t have Jokic in his top-3 for MVP Voting is wild and feels borderline racist :lol:


Wait...what?

Not top 3?

Unbelievable.
Infinite Llamas
RealGM
Posts: 10,580
And1: 24,114
Joined: Jul 22, 2006
Location: Land of Llamas
   

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2638 » by Infinite Llamas » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:12 pm

Castle Black wrote:Mike Wilbon admitting on television that he didn’t have Jokic in his top-3 for MVP Voting is wild and feels borderline racist :lol:


These guys legit don’t even believe these things. Nobody can be that brain dead in theory. Moreover, they do these things to get trending on Twitter and it works 99/100 times.
Gerald Green Loves LLamas!
User avatar
Dupp
RealGM
Posts: 112,394
And1: 67,144
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Location: Lifelong Nuggets Fan
 

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2639 » by Dupp » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:14 pm

Haven’t been following this so someone tell me who’s GOING to win? Not who DESERVES it.


Is it embiid, joker or Giannis, what’s the narrative?
HotRocks34
RealGM
Posts: 17,198
And1: 21,129
Joined: Jun 23, 2007

Re: 2021-22 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.3) 

Post#2640 » by HotRocks34 » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:25 pm

Castle Black wrote:Mike Wilbon admitting on television that he didn’t have Jokic in his top-3 for MVP Voting is wild and feels borderline racist :lol:



I'm guessing he voted for Embiid? (he did, just checked)

Recall, in the straw poll, three voters had Jokic fifth.

Now we know who one of those "fifths" likely is.

If you know WIlbon, this isn't a shock IMO. But it's his vote.

Another ESPN vote for Embiid.
Jokic 31/21/22
Luka & Oscar = 5 x 27/8/8
The Brodie = All-out energy

Return to The General Board