2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[LukaTheGOAT]

general board has a jokic vs bird comparision thread and people there are ripping down on my poor man jokic

like not just saying they think bird was better but thst jokic is not in the same universe as him and larry would be way, way, way better than hin today

it reafirms my theory thst active players dont get respect until they are close to retirement

Looking at what Bird accomplished as is and then taking away his big injury and placing him in an era where his skills will likely be even more valuable compared to Jokic who hasn't had a real dominant, deep post-season run yet sounds like an easy decision to me.

Like I agree it is dumb people act Jokic isn't even worthy of being in the conversation but picking current Jokic over a fully healthy Bird with modern nutrition and training also seems like recency bias to me.

Not really. Outside of 84-87 (excluding 85 with hand injury), Bird had his fair share of inconsistencies in the PS. You look at Jokic and he is basically a larger, stronger, and better finishing version of Bird. I think there is plenty of reason to believe he might be better offensively, especially when taking into account how dominant in the post he is. Depending on how you value their defense, I think it is fair to take Jokic. Some things you can just project, and I think Jokic's skillset and counters (59% from the midrange according to Backpicks is absurd) make him more of an outlier on offense.

[Dutchball97]

general board has a jokic vs bird comparision thread and people there are ripping down on my poor man jokic

like not just saying they think bird was better but thst jokic is not in the same universe as him and larry would be way, way, way better than hin today

it reafirms my theory thst active players dont get respect until they are close to retirement

Looking at what Bird accomplished as is and then taking away his big injury and placing him in an era where his skills will likely be even more valuable compared to Jokic who hasn't had a real dominant, deep post-season run yet sounds like an easy decision to me.

Like I agree it is dumb people act Jokic isn't even worthy of being in the conversation but picking current Jokic over a fully healthy Bird with modern nutrition and training also seems like recency bias to me.

Not really. Outside of 84-87 (excluding 85 with hand injury), Bird had his fair share of inconsistencies in the PS. You look at Jokic and he is basically a larger, stronger, and better finishing version of Bird. I think there is plenty of reason to believe he might be better offensively, especially when taking into account how dominant in the post he is. Depending on how you value their defense, I think it is fair to take Jokic. Some things you can just project, and I think Jokic's skillset and counters (59% from the midrange according to Backpicks is absurd) make him more of an outlier on offense.

Bird made a massive leap in the 1984 season and then badly injured his back midway through the 1985 season. In this scenario he wouldn't injure his back so he'd retain much more athleticism, his defense wouldn't fall off so quickly and he'd be more durable.

Maybe if Jokic can carry his improved defense into the post-season this year he'll have a case but taking a guy who still has some major questions around him whether he won't be exploited again on that end yet again in the play-offs really does sound like too much projection.

[LukaTheGOAT]

What is it with the Nuggets and shoving dudes in the back for no reason? Dangerous and has nothing to do with basketball

did somethingh happem with nuggets i am not aware of?

Read on Twitter

[feyki]

85 Bird adjusted to the 2022 - 30,7 PPG, 7,1 APG, %62,5 TS, 127 ORTG, %41,9 Offensive Load, 45,4 Points Created,
Compared to this year Jokic - 27,1 PPG, 7,9 APG, %66,1 TS, 126 ORTG, 39,8 Offensive Load, 45,3 Points Created,
And 87 Bird adjusted the 22 - 30,1 PPG, 8,1 APG, %65,6 TS, 129 ORTG, %42,8 Offensive Load, 47,1 Points Created.

87 Bird and this year Jokic have similar defensive impacts, 85 Bird was clearly ahead of that defensive line.

[feyki]

2022 Playoffs Power Ranking Projection(Only 5+ or so Projected SRS teams):
West;
Suns +5,7 SRS - CP +2,7,Booker +4,1,Mikaal +1,3,Jae -1,2,Ayton +1,9,Cam -0,2,Payne -0,6,Shamet -1,1,McGee -1,2,
Grizz +4,5 SRS - Ja +4,6,Bane +1,4,Brooks +0,8,JJ +1,9,Adams -0,4,Melton -0,2,Kyle -0,9,Ziare -1,1,Tyus -0,8,Konchar -0,8,
GSW +7,5 SRS - Curry +5,7,Poole +1,4,Wiggins +0,2,Dray +2,8,Looney +1,1,Klay -0,9,Payton-0,1,Kuminga -0,7,Bjelica -0,9, Tos -1,1,
Jazz +4,4 SRS - Conley +2,2,Mitchell +4,3,Bojan -1,4,Royce -0,4,Gober +3,3,Clarkson -0,6,Hassan -0,8,Gay -1,2,Trent -1,0,
Mavs +4,6 SRS - Jalen +1,8,Doncic+7,2,Bullock -1,1,Finney -0,6,Powell -0,8,Dinwd +0,9,Kleber -0,2,Josh -0,9,Bertans -1,7,

East;
Heat +5,6 SRS - Lowry +2,4,Duncan -0,4,Butler +5,2,PJ -1,4,Bam +2,4,Herro -0,1,Struss -0,7,Caleb -0,8,Dedmon -1,0,
Celt +6,2 SRS - Smart +0,1,Jaylen +2,9,Tatum +4,7,Theiss -0,4,Horford +0,9,White +0,1,Pritchard -0,9,Grant -0,2,Josh -1,0,
Bucks +7,3 SRS - Jru +2,8,Khris +2,8,Gray -1,2,Yannis +6,0,Lopez +0,9,Hill -1,0,Wes -1,4,Pat -1,2,Portis -0,4,
Sixers +6,4 SRS - Maxey -0,5,Harden +4,8,Thybulle -0,6,Tobias +1,5,Embiid +5,9,Niang -0,8,Green-0,6,Milton-0,9,Jordan-2,4,
Nets +7,6 SRS - Irving +4,5,Seth +0,4,Brown -0,2,Durant +7,1,Claxton -1,6,Mills -0,2,Dragic -0,5,Drummond -0,6,JJ -1,3.

[sp6r=underrated]

1st Round Prediction

Celtics over Nets: Win in 6 Games/ Confidence Level: 75%

Admittedly there is emotion behind this pick. The Nets are one of the most loathsome teams in my years following the NBA. They generate negative emotions in me that are frankly weird. Their Big 3:

Kyrie: I respect the non-political rules of the board so I won't elaborate beyond stating his cause this year was pernicious for society and highly damaging to his team.

Ben: I have less issues with him than most. I don't blame him for demanding a trade. Morey started shopping him from Day 1 he signed that contract and wanted to ship him off to a terrible Houston club for Harden. When Harden went to Brooklyn he started shopping to other teams that were planning on a total rebuild. If management wants to harm your career by shipping you off to a bad company in a city you had no interest in living in it is entirely reasonable to bail. It is repulsive players aren't allowed to negotiate no-trade clauses.

I recognize his right to go to arbitration to get paid. But it also reflects poorly on his character. But his demanding to get paid for refusing to get played is repulsive. He hoped by holding out he could dictate terms to Philly. As I said I don't have a problem with it. But you shouldn't get paid for it.

Durant: Because of how young he looks we forget how old he is. He is well into middle aged and still has the maturity of a 13 year old. Easily the most immature superstar from Shaq who at least joie de vie when not indulging his petulance.

Here are trends that would be validated if the Nets go on a big post-season run.
1. Players only playing 20-30 games in the RS. I really like the 82 game schedule and don't want to lose it. If the Nets win more elite players will assume Kyrie is right and playing is mostly a waste of time beyond the post-season. It will be really hard to keep fans and players interested if the Nets go on a big run. If they burn out, though people will look at the season as wasted from day 1.

2. Non-existent coaching. We will never know Nash's relative merits as a head coach. Most great players are terrible coaches, even ones who showed shrewd high IQ on the court, but we're not going to find out with this crew since they have zero interest in being coached. If the Nets underperform their talent level teams may realize they need to empower their coach more.

[Colbinii]

1st Round Prediction

Celtics over Nets: Win in 6 Games/ Confidence Level: 75%

Admittedly there is emotion behind this pick. The Nets are one of the most loathsome teams in my years following the NBA. They generate negative emotions in me that are frankly weird. Their Big 3:

Kyrie: I respect the non-political rules of the board so I won't elaborate beyond stating his cause this year was pernicious for society and highly damaging to his team.

Ben: I have less issues with him than most. I don't blame him for demanding a trade. Morey started shopping him from Day 1 he signed that contract and wanted to ship him off to a terrible Houston club for Harden. When Harden went to Brooklyn he started shopping to other teams that were planning on a total rebuild. If management wants to harm your career by shipping you off to a bad company in a city you had no interest in living in it is entirely reasonable to bail. It is repulsive players aren't allowed to negotiate no-trade clauses.

I recognize his right to go to arbitration to get paid. But it also reflects poorly on his character. But his demanding to get paid for refusing to get played is repulsive. He hoped by holding out he could dictate terms to Philly. As I said I don't have a problem with it. But you shouldn't get paid for it.

Durant: Because of how young he looks we forget how old he is. He is well into middle aged and still has the maturity of a 13 year old. Easily the most immature superstar from Shaq who at least joie de vie when not indulging his petulance.

Here are trends that would be validated if the Nets go on a big post-season run.
1. Players only playing 20-30 games in the RS. I really like the 82 game schedule and don't want to lose it. If the Nets win more elite players will assume Kyrie is right and playing is mostly a waste of time beyond the post-season. It will be really hard to keep fans and players interested if the Nets go on a big run. If they burn out, though people will look at the season as wasted from day 1.

2. Non-existent coaching. We will never know Nash's relative merits as a head coach. Most great players are terrible coaches, even ones who showed shrewd high IQ on the court, but we're not going to find out with this crew since they have zero interest in being coached. If the Nets underperform their talent level teams may realize they need to empower their coach more.

Where are your other matchups?

[sp6r=underrated]

1st Round Prediction

Celtics over Nets: Win in 6 Games/ Confidence Level: 75%

Admittedly there is emotion behind this pick. The Nets are one of the most loathsome teams in my years following the NBA. They generate negative emotions in me that are frankly weird. Their Big 3:

Kyrie: I respect the non-political rules of the board so I won't elaborate beyond stating his cause this year was pernicious for society and highly damaging to his team.

Ben: I have less issues with him than most. I don't blame him for demanding a trade. Morey started shopping him from Day 1 he signed that contract and wanted to ship him off to a terrible Houston club for Harden. When Harden went to Brooklyn he started shopping to other teams that were planning on a total rebuild. If management wants to harm your career by shipping you off to a bad company in a city you had no interest in living in it is entirely reasonable to bail. It is repulsive players aren't allowed to negotiate no-trade clauses.

I recognize his right to go to arbitration to get paid. But it also reflects poorly on his character. But his demanding to get paid for refusing to get played is repulsive. He hoped by holding out he could dictate terms to Philly. As I said I don't have a problem with it. But you shouldn't get paid for it.

Durant: Because of how young he looks we forget how old he is. He is well into middle aged and still has the maturity of a 13 year old. Easily the most immature superstar from Shaq who at least joie de vie when not indulging his petulance.

Here are trends that would be validated if the Nets go on a big post-season run.
1. Players only playing 20-30 games in the RS. I really like the 82 game schedule and don't want to lose it. If the Nets win more elite players will assume Kyrie is right and playing is mostly a waste of time beyond the post-season. It will be really hard to keep fans and players interested if the Nets go on a big run. If they burn out, though people will look at the season as wasted from day 1.

2. Non-existent coaching. We will never know Nash's relative merits as a head coach. Most great players are terrible coaches, even ones who showed shrewd high IQ on the court, but we're not going to find out with this crew since they have zero interest in being coached. If the Nets underperform their talent level teams may realize they need to empower their coach more.

Where are your other matchups?

Going to do em one by one. Will get them in by sat

[parsnips33]

What is it with the Nuggets and shoving dudes in the back for no reason? Dangerous and has nothing to do with basketball

Jokic's shove was far from "for no reason"

Ok maybe not no reason per se, but disproportionate and unnecessary

[falcolombardi]

general board has a jokic vs bird comparision thread and people there are ripping down on my poor man jokic

like not just saying they think bird was better but thst jokic is not in the same universe as him and larry would be way, way, way better than hin today

it reafirms my theory thst active players dont get respect until they are close to retirement

To be fair, I remember a thread about Bird this season and some people argued that Bird would be another Ryan Anderson today and that he wouldn't be anything special as a shooter now.

lulwhat!? no way they said that

i guess there are both, people who act like current players are trash compared to retired legends and tbose who say retired legends were trash compared to current stars

both approaches wouls be wrong

anyway, my problem is not with "bird>jokic" but with the arguments for it

they are saying that bird could easily take 10+ 3's at 40% (essentially saying bird would be curry ar worst shooting wise)
that he is way better than jokic cause rings and playoffs performance compares to jokic being "humillated" by phoenix (as if bird never struggled in postseason)
his weaker areas like handle or scoring inside wouldnt matter cause "no defense era"

and other stuff like that, it is not the arguing for bird that annoys me but how they try to bring down other players to prop him up while kind of mithologizing him as some sort of perfect player demigod

[LukaTheGOAT]

Looking at what Bird accomplished as is and then taking away his big injury and placing him in an era where his skills will likely be even more valuable compared to Jokic who hasn't had a real dominant, deep post-season run yet sounds like an easy decision to me.

Like I agree it is dumb people act Jokic isn't even worthy of being in the conversation but picking current Jokic over a fully healthy Bird with modern nutrition and training also seems like recency bias to me.

Not really. Outside of 84-87 (excluding 85 with hand injury), Bird had his fair share of inconsistencies in the PS. You look at Jokic and he is basically a larger, stronger, and better finishing version of Bird. I think there is plenty of reason to believe he might be better offensively, especially when taking into account how dominant in the post he is. Depending on how you value their defense, I think it is fair to take Jokic. Some things you can just project, and I think Jokic's skillset and counters (59% from the midrange according to Backpicks is absurd) make him more of an outlier on offense.

Bird made a massive leap in the 1984 season and then badly injured his back midway through the 1985 season. In this scenario he wouldn't injure his back so he'd retain much more athleticism, his defense wouldn't fall off so quickly and he'd be more durable.

Maybe if Jokic can carry his improved defense into the post-season this year he'll have a case but taking a guy who still has some major questions around him whether he won't be exploited again on that end yet again in the play-offs really does sound like too much projection.

Maybe. Back injuries are still taboo to this day. A back injury permanently dropped Dwight from an MVP level guy. Michael Porter Jr. hurt his back and he's been out for the whole year, and people worry about what he will look like when he gets back. It depends what precisely what was wrong with his back.

[Dutchball97]

Not really. Outside of 84-87 (excluding 85 with hand injury), Bird had his fair share of inconsistencies in the PS. You look at Jokic and he is basically a larger, stronger, and better finishing version of Bird. I think there is plenty of reason to believe he might be better offensively, especially when taking into account how dominant in the post he is. Depending on how you value their defense, I think it is fair to take Jokic. Some things you can just project, and I think Jokic's skillset and counters (59% from the midrange according to Backpicks is absurd) make him more of an outlier on offense.

Bird made a massive leap in the 1984 season and then badly injured his back midway through the 1985 season. In this scenario he wouldn't injure his back so he'd retain much more athleticism, his defense wouldn't fall off so quickly and he'd be more durable.

Maybe if Jokic can carry his improved defense into the post-season this year he'll have a case but taking a guy who still has some major questions around him whether he won't be exploited again on that end yet again in the play-offs really does sound like too much projection.

Maybe. Back injuries are still taboo to this day. A back injury permanently dropped Dwight from an MVP level guy. Michael Porter Jr. hurt his back and he's been out for the whole year, and people worry about what he will look like when he gets back. It depends what precisely what was wrong with his back.

He injured his back building a driveway. I just think it is safe to assume that wouldn't happen now.

[Doctor MJ]

What is it with the Nuggets and shoving dudes in the back for no reason? Dangerous and has nothing to do with basketball

Jokic's shove was far from "for no reason"

Ok maybe not no reason per se, but disproportionate and unnecessary

So, I think the first thing I've been pointing out, and now warrants a direct contrast, is that Jokic didn't actually shove Morris the way Campazzo just did (or Beverley did Paul).

To do a true shove, you push out with your arms. When you do this, you do something far more dangerous. By contrast, a shoulder check is something that in virtually all circumstances is considered "holding back".

The reason why what Jokic did was "disproportionate", is because he's so damn big, that even when he holds back, he injures a 6'8" man drastically more than what these normal sized guys do when they do a more thorough assault.

None of that means that Jokic shouldn't have been punished - or that he arguably shouldn't have been punished more - but I don't think either Jokic or Morris had any idea of how badly Jokic could hurt Morris without actually trying to apply maximum injury-creation pressure on Morris' body.

This is where I'd remind that Jokic connected with Morris' torso, but it was Morris' neck that got hurt. People who have not experienced whiplash tend to underestimate it, and quite honestly, I really doubt Morris understood what he was in for even after the shove. It's something that often gets worse in the days that follow.

And again, Jokic deserved punishment for the action...but we shouldn't pretend that Morris wasn't baiting this exact scenario. In real life, you don't come in and pop a guy and then immediately turn your back on him expecting nothing to happen. He turned his back here to make Jokic look either cowardly - if he didn't respond - or psychopathic if he did. As a 6'8" man who has spent his entire career as a bully, he was probably confident that whatever Jokic through at him, he could take it.

In reality, his body couldn't take even Jokic holding back, and now who eve knows how long he'll have to live with the consequences of antagonizing a much larger man and then turning his body so that he couldn't defend himself.

[Statlanta]

What is it with the Nuggets and shoving dudes in the back for no reason? Dangerous and has nothing to do with basketball

What is it with people targeting Nuggets players?

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[sp6r=underrated]

What is it with the Nuggets and shoving dudes in the back for no reason? Dangerous and has nothing to do with basketball

Jokic's shove was far from "for no reason"

Ok maybe not no reason per se, but disproportionate and unnecessary

Sincere Question: What were Jokic's options?

1. Do nothing.

The NBA, incorrectly, is more tolerant of cheap shots on big players rather than smalls. From Shaq to Lebron to Wilt, if you have a size advantage refs will often let smaller players hit em.


Second, White European players are stereotyped by many of the mostly black American NBA players as softies who you can physically push around. The belief may be false but the existence of the belief isn't.

Doing nothing is a recipe for getting treated this way for years. This is a sensitive topic for understandable reasons but it is an important subtext.

2. Wait till Morris turns around and start a fight.

Why does he owe Morris the right to defend himself after Morris gave him a blatant cheapshot?

[parsnips33]

Jokic's shove was far from "for no reason"

Ok maybe not no reason per se, but disproportionate and unnecessary

Sincere Question: What were Jokic's options?

1. Do nothing.

The NBA, incorrectly, is more tolerant of cheap shots on big players rather than smalls. From Shaq to Lebron to Wilt, if you have a size advantage refs will often let smaller players hit em.


Second, White European players are stereotyped by many of the mostly black American NBA players as softies who you can physically push around. The belief may be false but the existence of the belief isn't.

Doing nothing is a recipe for getting treated this way for years. This is a sensitive topic for understandable reasons but it is an important subtext.

2. Wait till Morris turns around and start a fight.

Why does he owe Morris the right to defend himself after Morris gave him a blatant cheapshot?

Oh I get why Jokic did it. Heat of the moment can make people do things and I don't want to throw stones from a glass house

I still think what he did was dangerous (we saw what happened to Morris) and I think he probably should have got more than just a 1 game suspension. Does Campazzo do what he did if Jokic had gotten (pulling a number out of a hat here) a 15 game suspension?

I kinda see it like the Will Smith slap - I get why he did it, but that doesn't make it right. And the people in charge are responsible for making sure that type of behavior is not encouraged.

[70sFan]

general board has a jokic vs bird comparision thread and people there are ripping down on my poor man jokic

like not just saying they think bird was better but thst jokic is not in the same universe as him and larry would be way, way, way better than hin today

it reafirms my theory thst active players dont get respect until they are close to retirement

To be fair, I remember a thread about Bird this season and some people argued that Bird would be another Ryan Anderson today and that he wouldn't be anything special as a shooter now.

lulwhat!? no way they said that

i guess there are both, people who act like current players are trash compared to retired legends and tbose who say retired legends were trash compared to current stars

both approaches wouls be wrong

anyway, my problem is not with "bird>jokic" but with the arguments for it

they are saying that bird could easily take 10+ 3's at 40% (essentially saying bird would be curry ar worst shooting wise)
that he is way better than jokic cause rings and playoffs performance compares to jokic being "humillated" by phoenix (as if bird never struggled in postseason)
his weaker areas like handle or scoring inside wouldnt matter cause "no defense era"

and other stuff like that, it is not the arguing for bird that annoys me but how they try to bring down other players to prop him up while kind of mithologizing him as some sort of perfect player demigod

Yeah, a lot of silly posts from both sides in such comparisons. The worst thing is that neither side usually has any clue about oldschool players. Some people believe that Bird is much better scorer than Jokic and would play in Doncic role, which is complete misunderstanding what made him great. At the same time, some people view Bird as slow, unathletic shooter in Ryan Anderson mold.

[falcolombardi]

Bird made a massive leap in the 1984 season and then badly injured his back midway through the 1985 season. In this scenario he wouldn't injure his back so he'd retain much more athleticism, his defense wouldn't fall off so quickly and he'd be more durable.

Maybe if Jokic can carry his improved defense into the post-season this year he'll have a case but taking a guy who still has some major questions around him whether he won't be exploited again on that end yet again in the play-offs really does sound like too much projection.

Maybe. Back injuries are still taboo to this day. A back injury permanently dropped Dwight from an MVP level guy. Michael Porter Jr. hurt his back and he's been out for the whole year, and people worry about what he will look like when he gets back. It depends what precisely what was wrong with his back.

He injured his back building a driveway. I just think it is safe to assume that wouldn't happen now.

he injured his back cause he prefered doing that work himself that pay for it, he had more than enough money to pay for it but still decided to do it himself

that is on him personality wise regardless of era, is not like celtics back then encouraged him to do so

same with the bar fight

[Doctor MJ]

Jokic's shove was far from "for no reason"

Ok maybe not no reason per se, but disproportionate and unnecessary

Sincere Question: What were Jokic's options?

1. Do nothing.

The NBA, incorrectly, is more tolerant of cheap shots on big players rather than smalls. From Shaq to Lebron to Wilt, if you have a size advantage refs will often let smaller players hit em.


Second, White European players are stereotyped by many of the mostly black American NBA players as softies who you can physically push around. The belief may be false but the existence of the belief isn't.

Doing nothing is a recipe for getting treated this way for years. This is a sensitive topic for understandable reasons but it is an important subtext.

2. Wait till Morris turns around and start a fight.

Why does he owe Morris the right to defend himself after Morris gave him a blatant cheapshot?

Great, great point.

Something people aren't talking about but is true:

Jokic will benefit from what he did to Morris going forward.

There is a natural tendency among Black American players to assume that White players, and European players are soft. If Jokic had continued to do nothing, other players would just keep taking cheap shots on him forever.

Now, they all know that he could accidently kill you. Respect.

There's a cost to this in the sense that he'll not get any benefit of the doubt going forward, and guys may specifically try to trigger him...but no one will ever do what Morris did (cheap shot then turn around) ever again.

Truth is, if I had the ability to go back and time and warn Jokic not to do what he did, the only reason I'd do it in theory is to protect Morris...and the reality is that if this didn't happen to a Morris bro, they'd just keep trying to physically intimidate other players in cheap ways for the rest of their careers emboldened by their past success. I'm sure they'll still do some of that going forward, but they will not forget how vulnerable their bodies are to even minor things like shoulder-checks.

None of this means that what Jokic did is "right", and I think Jokic really had no idea the scale of the effect he was putting in motion so he was being foolish in addition to - arguably - immoral, but the rest of the league is not going to gleefully F with him like they used to now, and when they do antagonize him, they are going to keep watching him, and run away with their tail between their legs if he loses his cool.

[Dutchball97]

Maybe. Back injuries are still taboo to this day. A back injury permanently dropped Dwight from an MVP level guy. Michael Porter Jr. hurt his back and he's been out for the whole year, and people worry about what he will look like when he gets back. It depends what precisely what was wrong with his back.

He injured his back building a driveway. I just think it is safe to assume that wouldn't happen now.

he injured his back cause he prefered doing that work himself that pay for it, he had more than enough money to pay for it but still decided to do it himself

that is on him personality wise regardless of era, is not like celtics back then encouraged him to do so

same with the bar fight

How about Bird using better equipment now? Maybe Bird never aggravates his back because of better physicians or because he does yoga. Maybe he does get the injury but doesn't decline as fast due to better medicine/care. In a what if scenario like this you can't truely know what would or wouldn't happen. Besides that even with the injury Bird had what is generally considered his best season the year after he hurt his back, it wasn't an immediate breakdown and more of a gradual decline.

Untill we know for certain Jokic can lead a team to a title I'm not picking him over Bird. This year he doesn't have the team for a deep run but maybe next year. To be clear Jokic is a strong play-off performer but he hasn't had anything close to a run like Bird had in 84 and 86.