Westbrook Trades - Dream a Sweet Dream

[TylersLakers]

I love Brogdon and Hield and if that comes to fruition.. amazing. It basically does a re-do on last off-season except you substitute Caruso for Brogdon.

However, I don’t think that deal is likely. Even if the Lakers include 2027 and 2029 picks.

The realistic deal for me is:

Before the draft, trade Westbrook and a 2027 1st, 2nd round pick to OKC for Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, Derrick Favors. It gives us a $30M trade exception and gives us an MLE ($10M) and BLE ($4) to use.

LeBron, AD, Williams, Muscala, Favors, Nunn, Reaves, Stanley, Gabriel is not a bad start.

[Eric Bieniemy]

I love Brogdon and Hield and if that comes to fruition.. amazing. It basically does a re-do on last off-season except you substitute Caruso for Brogdon.

However, I don’t think that deal is likely. Even if the Lakers include 2027 and 2029 picks.

The realistic deal for me is:

Before the draft, trade Westbrook and a 2027 1st, 2nd round pick to OKC for Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, Derrick Favors. It gives us a $30M trade exception and gives us an MLE ($10M) and BLE ($4) to use.

LeBron, AD, Williams, Muscala, Favors, Nunn, Reaves, Stanley, Gabriel is not a bad start.

Good work here, Tyler! Posts like this are the reason for the season for me, the reason why I started this thread. Very insightful and thoughtful.

Why don't you think Brogdon and Hield are likely though? We can give the Pacers immeadiate cap relief (saving them a whopping 60 million) and draft picks.

Brogdon is owed 20 mil for three more seasons and Hield 20 mil for two more seasons. Brogdon has an injury history and Hield has attitude history.

Point is: How much of a market will they have?

As far as your proposal, it's brilliant. I'll have to spend some time researching Williams, but I like the framework for sure. Cheers.

[Landsberger]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

[zimpy27]

haha yeah. The 2nd rounders were the joke. But we do actually have 9 2nd round picks.

What about first rounders?

Well the FRPs Lakers get would be just used to sell some other team to take Randle, a team that is looking to accumulate picks in rebuild mode by taking bad long-term salary. Knicks probably better adding FRPs to send Randle for some other team for a decent player.

Would you consider parting with IQ and taking back more salary than giving out?

Westbrook+THT for Randle+Fournier+IQ may work.
Lakers get a young athletic guard and move THTs contract off their books.

IQ, Reaves, LeBron, Randle, Davis -- Nunn, Fournier, SJ, Gabriel

Westbrook, Burks, RJ, Obi, Mitch -- Rose, Grimes, THT, Reddish, Noel

Disclosure, I'm pretty low on RJ. My trade proposal is Randle, Fournier, RJ, IQ for Westbrook, 2 first round picks, and 2 second round picks. Knicks can reset with the picks and cure this failed rebuid, and Lakers get 4 rotational players to continue the LBJ era.

Yeah I think Lakers probably do this trade, gives them something to work with if Bron leaves and it's a much more competitive team than last season.

What about something like this:

Lakers get Rozier+Randle
Knicks get Hayward
Hornets get Westbrook+NYK23FRP

It's a bit better for what both teams want. Lakers really need a reliable guard as a priority in a Westbrook trade, they take on Randle for it. Hayward is a nice fit for Knicks too as he can be a prime playmaker.
IQ, RJ, Hayward, Obi, Mitch -- Rose, Grimes, Burks, Fournier, Noel
Throw some money at Jalen Smith in FA for backup PF.

[zimpy27]

My favourite trade is still this, especially if Monk signs for the TaxMLE (which looks possible).

Knicks get Westbrook
Lakers get Melton, Tillman, Burks, Fournier
Grizzlies get Kemba, LAL27FRP, LAL23SRP

Melton, Monk, LeBron, Davis is an ideal core four IMO.
Nunn, Gabriel, Tillman are the stuck on bench guys.
Reaves, THT, Burks, Fournier rotate through bench and starters.
SJ, Melo, Howard can fill the third tier with one other player to be added.

[Kilroy]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

[Slava]

I have the Mavs as a sneaky candidate to explore a Westbrook trade. Kidd is inventive and arrogant enough to think he can make it work and it reduces a substantial burden on Doncic to have a ball handler more capable than Dinwiddie to share PG, especially if they choose to let Brunson go or he gets an offer they cannot match in restricted free agency. Shifting TH Jr, Bullock and Powell also clears the cap for them in 2023-24.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Are you making this up?

[danfantastk32]

I have the Mavs as a sneaky candidate to explore a Westbrook trade. Kidd is inventive and arrogant enough to think he can make it work and it reduces a substantial burden on Doncic to have a ball handler more capable than Dinwiddie to share PG, especially if they choose to let Brunson go or he gets an offer they cannot match in restricted free agency. Shifting TH Jr, Bullock and Powell also clears the cap for them in 2023-24.

You know what? I totally think this is a great idea. Kidd is a genius.

As much as it pains me to help build an opposing dynasty......let's go ahead and make this trade happen.

[Landsberger]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

He's talented but he's not an additive player. I get that we're not going to get an additive piece for Westbrook but Randle isn't a guy who gains in value in my opinion. He is what he is. He can score in bunches but has never really got the whole system thing on either end of the floor. To me his value is similar to Kuzma (not the game obviously) except Kuzma is priced accordingly. Neither really fit on the floor next to Lebron and Davis. Kuzma was asked just stand in the corner and get 3 pointers with less than 2 seconds on the clock as as "option". Randle would be similarly "effective" in all likelihood. His best use would be off the bench but I'm not seeing a sacrifice in his future.

As for defense... any discussion of "individual defense" is overrated. Defense is a team aspect of the game... at least real defense... not advanced stat defense anyway. Our defense isn't going to get better on LeBron's watch and adding guys like Howard and Melo at this point in their careers makes it nearly impossible to improve our defense in a meaningful way.

[TylersLakers]

I love Brogdon and Hield and if that comes to fruition.. amazing. It basically does a re-do on last off-season except you substitute Caruso for Brogdon.

However, I don’t think that deal is likely. Even if the Lakers include 2027 and 2029 picks.

The realistic deal for me is:

Before the draft, trade Westbrook and a 2027 1st, 2nd round pick to OKC for Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, Derrick Favors. It gives us a $30M trade exception and gives us an MLE ($10M) and BLE ($4) to use.

LeBron, AD, Williams, Muscala, Favors, Nunn, Reaves, Stanley, Gabriel is not a bad start.

Good work here, Tyler! Posts like this are the reason for the season for me, the reason why I started this thread. Very insightful and thoughtful.

Why don't you think Brogdon and Hield are likely though? We can give the Pacers immeadiate cap relief (saving them a whopping 60 million) and draft picks.

Brogdon is owed 20 mil for three more seasons and Hield 20 mil for two more seasons. Brogdon has an injury history and Hield has attitude history.

Point is: How much of a market will they have?

As far as your proposal, it's brilliant. I'll have to spend some time researching Williams, but I like the framework for sure. Cheers.

I just think there has to be better individual deals out there for them. We have the opportunity to provide them almost immediate relief with both.. but can a different team provide a better deal for Malcolm Brogdon? And then a different team with Hield? And then a different team with Turner?

[TylersLakers]

On a side note: Watching Chicago and Milwaukee.

I can’t believe we had Alex Caruso and Wes Matthews on our team and we just went “nah” as a front office even though every Laker fan screamed for them to be brought back. Hilarious.

[zimpy27]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

[zimpy27]

On a side note: Watching Chicago and Milwaukee.

I can’t believe we had Alex Caruso and Wes Matthews on our team and we just went “nah” as a front office even though every Laker fan screamed for them to be brought back. Hilarious.

Yeah this is my biggest issue with Pelinka..

You had the number 1 defense, your coach is a defensive specialist, you get let defensive players walk for no reason other than cap flexibility

[slifersd]

On a side note: Watching Chicago and Milwaukee.

I can’t believe we had Alex Caruso and Wes Matthews on our team and we just went “nah” as a front office even though every Laker fan screamed for them to be brought back. Hilarious.

In all fairness, Wes Matthews was really bad when he played here. The guy couldn't hit a shot to save his life.

Caruso, I guess Jeanie wasn't as rich as everyone made her out to be since she was trying to dodge luxury tax left and right this season.

[danfantastk32]

Caruso, I guess Jeanie wasn't as rich as everyone made her out to be since she was trying to dodge luxury tax left and right this season.

She was? Cause I see the Lakers being 4th or 5th in salary this season.....way over the cap. Maybe everyone who thought that Westbrook was gonna be this great thing, decided that it wasn't worth throwing like 20-25 mil away for a guy who prob wouldn't see much floor time. You gotta remember that the front office walked into this season thinking this was gonna be amazing. Not that Westbrook would go back to his old self, defense would crumble, the old players would essentially bring nothing to the table, and that AD would once again miss most of the season.

So $20+ mil (whatever the exact hit was gonna be) for a guy who played only 50 games last year, and gave you 6.5 points, and 3 boards and assists? Except for the Laker fans and their "cult hero" guys that come around ever 3-4 years.....that's considered a totally stupid contract.

I dunno....Alex missed half the season in Chicago. He's up to 7.5 points, 3 boards, and 4 assists. Playing almost 30 minutes, and shooting under 40% <--------------- and we rue the day we passed on this? I will admit he plays decent D, and worked pretty well with Lebron. But ok....if Westbrook was gonna eat all those minutes.....then does it even matter?

I remember everyone furious with D'antoni that he wouldn't play Devin Ebanks more. We released him that year, and he never played an NBA game again. Earl Clark was aonther one who had a couple good games with the Lakers, and then everyone wanted him to play all these minutes. Guy never once hit double digits in scoring. Not even close. We all remember Shannon Brown? Another Laker darling. He went to Phoenix and had his two best seasons.....10.5 points, and 3 rebounds, and under 2 assists. Trevor Ariza was another. I was guilty of this one. I thought he was a beast. He did have some big plays, but you go look at his stats, and thank your stars we didn't give him the contract that Houston did. The list goes on and on. Folks thought Jordan Farmar was legit. Smush Parker had his fans. I for one was furious that we let Zubac go. Go look at his stats....meh. Nice player at best. Same with Larry Nance Jr. He has his cult following who thought we gave away a potential all-star. Nope. Caruso is gone. Time for the Caruso crowd to get over it. He simply wasn't worth anything close to what we were gonna have to pay. I wish him the best, and I liked his story as much as the next fan. But he'll be one the hundreds of "oh yeah, I remember that guy" in 10 years. Like Nance. I liked Nance....but jesus, I'm not sure if he's even playing anymore. If he is....he's certainly not making any waves.

[SK21209]

Wow.... hadn't read this one. Randle?! He's got to be a close second to Westbrook in being the most undisciplined player in the NBA on both ends.... and with the Refs, other players and fans... in the few games I saw him this year he got points and boards but his team got beat bad. He's not a fit with Bron and Davis and not a leader in any way after Bron is gone.

Now if we can find another team to flip him to in a multi-team trade then OK. What we really need is 2-3 good players who can fit with Davis and Bron... not compete with them.

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

[loveshaq786]

Traiding Westbrook for rozier and Hayward... Better not be for any pics.

I'm down to do a three-way.

Westbrook and Anthony Davis for rozier, smart, brown, horford

Boston gets Hayward, Anthony Davis for jaylen brown, Marcus Smart and Horford

[loveshaq786]

Traiding Westbrook for rozier and Hayward... Better not be for any pics.

I'm down to do a three-way.

Westbrook and Anthony Davis for rozier, smart, brown, horford

Boston gets Hayward, Anthony Davis for jaylen brown, Marcus Smart and Horford

Also trading jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart for Jimmy Butler is not a bad idea

[zimpy27]

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

It's the opposite really. Lakers moved decent role players for stars that don't hustle or were injured. The whole point is to get reliable role players that aren't just old vets.