Kevin Love has never made the playoffs without LeBron

[tsherkin]

And neither were HOF locks before the 2016 started. Hell, neither made the All-star game nor All-NBA that year.

Love took a reduced role, so that's understandable. He was still an All-Star talent and regardless authored a 16/10/2 season on above-average offensive efficiency. Irving, of course, had his first actually impressive season (and his best season to date at that point in his career). Until this season, it was also his highest 3P% in the RS. So both were surely contributing very much to the Cavs and were very helpful to team success. They just weren't some collection of superstars, which is either coming from a place of trying to tear Lebron down or a ludicrous watering-down of that term.

[AussieRules]

Lebron never had a superteam gang doing mental gymnastics trying to discredit all of Lebron’s teammates, then they wonder why Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Steph Curry have all said no thanks to Lebron.

Y’all can’t change facts bruh, try all you want but the facts won’t change.

[C3H6N6O6]

Lebron never had a superteam gang doing mental gymnastics trying to discredit all of Lebron’s teammates, then they wonder why Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Steph Curry have all said no thanks to Lebron.

Y’all can’t change facts bruh, try all you want but the facts won’t change.

You do it yourself when you say that Love missing a game in 2016 finals meant nothing but Draymond Green missing a game changed the series.
The revisionist history is that no one thought that Lakers will win it all at the start of the regular season and after the first few games in the bubble. Hell, most people thought Blazers or Rockets were going to win after both of them won their first game Vs the Lakers. Now people think that bubble was easy and that Lakers team was a superteam.

[AussieRules]

Lebron never had a superteam gang doing mental gymnastics trying to discredit all of Lebron’s teammates, then they wonder why Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Steph Curry have all said no thanks to Lebron.

Y’all can’t change facts bruh, try all you want but the facts won’t change.

You do it yourself when you say that Love missing a game in 2016 finals meant nothing but Draymond Green missing a game changed the series.

No, you must be mistaking me for someone else. I never said Love missing a game meant nothing.

[DroseReturnChi]

guys love was avging 26 and 12 for a entire season he was making history. then he was a 15ppg scrub yr after and when lebron won he took all the glory. people dont realize love had to make ridiculous sacrifice for lebron as always like bosh, wad did. i refuse to believe love regressed in his prime he was pretty much forced to.

love would have still made playoffs as a number 1 option if he was not traded to cavs. the fact that lebron made him to a winner is most ridiculous post ive ever seen.

[C3H6N6O6]

Lebron never had a superteam gang doing mental gymnastics trying to discredit all of Lebron’s teammates, then they wonder why Paul George, Kawhi Leonard and Steph Curry have all said no thanks to Lebron.

Y’all can’t change facts bruh, try all you want but the facts won’t change.

You do it yourself when you say that Love missing a game in 2016 finals meant nothing but Draymond Green missing a game changed the series.

No, you must be mistaking me for someone else. I never said Love missing a game meant nothing.

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

[tsherkin]

guys love was avging 26 and 12 for a entire season he was making history.

In no way, shape or form is that "making history."

then he was a 15ppg scrub yr after and when lebron won he took all the glory. people dont realize love had to make ridiculous sacrifice for lebron as always like bosh, wad did. i refuse to believe love regressed in his prime he was pretty much forced to.

Everyone realizes that Love made a sacrifice of volume scoring to join the Cavs with Kyrie and Lebron. He did not regress, he was just sharing the ball with two other volume guys. There aren't enough possessions to go around for everyone to take 20 FGA/g, that's a given. If anything, it's a credit to Love, as it was with Bosh, to be the teammate that says "okay, I'll fill this role."

That's still immaterial to the actual discussion at hand. You can say Love wasn't a superstar (which he clearly wasn't) and still recognize that he had noteworthy offensive value to the Cavs (because he obviously did). You need to stop propping up strawmen and otherwise making stuff up.

[tsherkin]

love would have still made playoffs as a number 1 option if he was not traded to cavs. the fact that lebron made him to a winner is most ridiculous post ive ever seen.

Forgot about this part. He didn't do it in over half a decade. What makes you think that he was about to? Because it suits your argument? The Wolves weren't actually close to the playoffs even in Love's best season...

[C3H6N6O6]

guys love was avging 26 and 12 for a entire season he was making history. then he was a 15ppg scrub yr after and when lebron won he took all the glory. people dont realize love had to make ridiculous sacrifice for lebron as always like bosh, wad did. i refuse to believe love regressed in his prime he was pretty much forced to.

Wade didn't sacrifice anything. His body declined so did his game. if Kyrie can play great alongside LeBron then so could Wade and he did in 2011.
Bosh and Love had to sacrifice as they were the 3rd best players on those teams with no back to the basket game to bully mismatches in the paint when teams went small. Bosh was at least a good PnR defender. Love was a negative on defense.

[tsherkin]

Wade didn't sacrifice anything. His body declined so did his game. if Kyrie can play great alongside LeBron then so could Wade and he did in 2011.

Wade averaged 1.1 fewer PPG in his first season with Lebron compared to his last season without him. There wasn't a huge difference per-100-possessions even in 2012, but he was injured AND it was a lockout year, so his production was hurt and he didn't have a full measure of games to return to form. He wasn't healthy for either of the subsequent two seasons with Lebron. He was up and down pretty badly in the postseason during that stretch, but yeah, injuries an he was over 30 for most of it with a tepid jumper, so it wasn't hugely surprising.

Kyrie, of course, has a different style of offensive game. Wade relied on explosiveness. He had decent handles, for sure, but not like Kyrie, and he sure couldn't shoot anything like Kyrie, which makes Irving's game a little easier to use around Lebron as well. Wade's raw talent helped overcome, of course, but Kyrie's skill profile was more suitable next to Lebron. Also, he wasn't really TRYING to be a 26 ppg scorer at the time, because he wasn't an established scoring title winner like Wade. Not a shot at Wade, mind, just a note about place in career and all that, because Kyrie was quite early in his career when Lebron made his return.

[AussieRules]

You do it yourself when you say that Love missing a game in 2016 finals meant nothing but Draymond Green missing a game changed the series.

No, you must be mistaking me for someone else. I never said Love missing a game meant nothing.

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

I’m not a Lebron hater so that ridiculous stance doesn’t apply to me.

Kevin Love was leading the league in 20-20 games, double doubles, and had the first 30-30 games in 28 years before getting traded to the Cavs. He was going to be the most sought after free agent had he played out his contract (if I remember correctly), that’s a superstar who went to a superteam with Lebron and Kyrie in Cleveland. They were the heavy title favorites when the trade happened.

[C3H6N6O6]

No, you must be mistaking me for someone else. I never said Love missing a game meant nothing.

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

I’m not a Lebron hater so that ridiculous stance doesn’t apply to me.

Kevin Love was leading the league in 20-20 games, double doubles, and had the first 30-30 games in 28 years before getting traded to the Cavs. He was going to be the most sought after free agent had he played out his contract (if I remember correctly), that’s a superstar who went to a superteam with Lebron and Kyrie in Cleveland. They were the heavy title favorites when the trade happened.

Then why didn't Warriors trade 2014 Klay for the Superstar Love?
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/what-if-warriors-had-traded-klay-thompson-kevin-love-2014

Do you think that Nuggets or Sixers would have traded Jokic or Embiid for just a rookie like Wiggins?

[AussieRules]

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

I’m not a Lebron hater so that ridiculous stance doesn’t apply to me.

Kevin Love was leading the league in 20-20 games, double doubles, and had the first 30-30 games in 28 years before getting traded to the Cavs. He was going to be the most sought after free agent had he played out his contract (if I remember correctly), that’s a superstar who went to a superteam with Lebron and Kyrie in Cleveland. They were the heavy title favorites when the trade happened.

Then why didn't Warriors trade 2014 Klay for the Superstar Love?
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/what-if-warriors-had-traded-klay-thompson-kevin-love-2014

Do you think that Nuggets or Sixers would have traded Jokic or Embiid for just a rookie like Wiggins?

If I remember correctly, Jerry West threatened to resign if the Warriors trade Love for Klay. Doesn’t negate the fact that they’re both great players.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2015/06/11/jerry-west-klay-thompson-kevin-love-deal

[HMFFL]

10 seasons without LeBron. 0 Playoff appearances. Can we please stop talking about him like he was a superstar or a Hall of Fame player. He was never on that level. He was only propped up because he was a teammate of LeBron. If he was never traded to the Cavs, he would be discussed as the modern day Mitch Richmond.

Of course I have to mention how none of LeBron's "super teammates" have done **** without LeBron outside of Wade. They have all struggled to establish themselves as the #1 option.

Love: 10 seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 playoff series wins
Kyrie: 8 seasons, 3 playoff appearance, 2 playoff series win
AD: 7 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff series win
Bosh: 9 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff series wins
Combined: 34 seasons, 7 playoff appearances, 3 playoff series wins

Rudy Gobert has the same number of playoff wins as those "super teammates" have combined.

I have had my strong opinions regarding Kevin Love from his mindset to his game, but he was indeed a highly skilled talent, even before he teamed up with Lebron James.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[jbk1234]

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

I’m not a Lebron hater so that ridiculous stance doesn’t apply to me.

Kevin Love was leading the league in 20-20 games, double doubles, and had the first 30-30 games in 28 years before getting traded to the Cavs. He was going to be the most sought after free agent had he played out his contract (if I remember correctly), that’s a superstar who went to a superteam with Lebron and Kyrie in Cleveland. They were the heavy title favorites when the trade happened.

Then why didn't Warriors trade 2014 Klay for the Superstar Love?
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/what-if-warriors-had-traded-klay-thompson-kevin-love-2014

Do you think that Nuggets or Sixers would have traded Jokic or Embiid for just a rookie like Wiggins?

Embiid was drafted two slots behind Wiggins and Jokic had just finished his rookie year. I'm pretty sure Nurkic was still starting for Denver.

[triple_threat]

:D

Remind me again what kind of teams Love played on without LeBron? This was the first legitimately good team he was on without him and they managed to win 44 with an injury ragged season, only missing the playoffs due to the new format.

Coincidentally that came in a season where he played a career low mpg lol

And he was one of the best sixth man players in the league. To try to discredit what he did because he didn't play 30 minutes per game is pretty laughable.

It ain’t because as a go to guys he’s never made the playoffs that’s a fact and the premise of the thread great 6th man hooray I can name 20 better 6th men

[TheLand13]

:D

Coincidentally that came in a season where he played a career low mpg lol

And he was one of the best sixth man players in the league. To try to discredit what he did because he didn't play 30 minutes per game is pretty laughable.

It ain’t because as a go to guys he’s never made the playoffs that’s a fact and the premise of the thread great 6th man hooray I can name 20 better 6th men

Again, tell me what his teams were when he was the first option and explain to me in detail how those were his fault. I’ll wait.

[tsherkin]

10 seasons without LeBron. 0 Playoff appearances. Can we please stop talking about him like he was a superstar or a Hall of Fame player. He was never on that level. He was only propped up because he was a teammate of LeBron. If he was never traded to the Cavs, he would be discussed as the modern day Mitch Richmond.

Of course I have to mention how none of LeBron's "super teammates" have done **** without LeBron outside of Wade. They have all struggled to establish themselves as the #1 option.

Love: 10 seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 playoff series wins
Kyrie: 8 seasons, 3 playoff appearance, 2 playoff series win
AD: 7 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff series win
Bosh: 9 seasons, 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff series wins
Combined: 34 seasons, 7 playoff appearances, 3 playoff series wins

Rudy Gobert has the same number of playoff wins as those "super teammates" have combined.

I have had my strong opinions regarding Kevin Love from his mindset to his game, but he was indeed a highly skilled talent, even before he teamed up with Lebron James.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

No doubt. HypeMode is taking it a bit far. Love was an All-Star talent. Not a good defender, but he passed well, he was a good rebounder, had good range for a big. He did a lot of positive things, and was definitely a net-plus player for the Cavs with Lebron.

[TheLand13]

You do it yourself when you say that Love missing a game in 2016 finals meant nothing but Draymond Green missing a game changed the series.

No, you must be mistaking me for someone else. I never said Love missing a game meant nothing.

I wasn't talking about you but LeBron haters as whole. How many times have you heard that mentioned alongside Green missing a game.
How many time have people brought up that Minnesota wanted to trade Love for Klay but Warriors said no? This was in 2014 so Klay wasn't even that big of a name.

Love to the Warriors just wouldn’t have made sense. Klay wasn’t a big name but he was already showing a great deal of potential, as was Draymond. And we have to Kai in mind that at the time, Love was looking for a max contract the following season, and golden state wasn’t willing to give him one. So it basically came down to giving up a really great up and comer for a one year rental of Kevin Love. It wouldn’t have been worth it.

[triple_threat]

And he was one of the best sixth man players in the league. To try to discredit what he did because he didn't play 30 minutes per game is pretty laughable.

It ain’t because as a go to guys he’s never made the playoffs that’s a fact and the premise of the thread great 6th man hooray I can name 20 better 6th men

Again, tell me what his teams were when he was the first option and explain to me in detail how those were his fault. I’ll wait.

The part that was his fault was he was putrid defensively every season of his career