Eastern Conference | Round 1 | (4) Philadelphia 76ers vs. (5) Toronto Raptors

[Jadoogar]

Lmao @ anyone who thinks the Raps are a treadmill team. We're 5th place in the east in a rebuilding year, we have our cornerstone piece in Scottie, Trent and Achiuwa have developed nicely and we're getting all star level play from FVV and Siakam. Life's good

This is the sixers time to do it, I don't know if they get passed Miami in round 2 but they should be beating us in round 1. I expect more of a fight tonight

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

3 starters are under 25 years old. The main bench piece is a second year player.

[YogurtProducer]

Treadmilling means, no hope of winning a championship while making the playoffs. You can't redefine it. The Raptors have no hope. Sweep!

No, that really isn't what treadmilling means.

Most normal people understand it to mean good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a pick, but not just once - repeatedly - with no real means to improve. When you keep doing the same thing but neither move forward or backward THAT is when teams are treadmilling.

The Raptors were in the lotto last year and making a playoff appearance this year, as a first step on their way back up. If they flub it for multiple years in a row and don't exit 1st or 2nd round repeatedly, then you can come back here and call them a treadmill team.

Teams have up and down cycles, and almost no one ever goes from lotto team to title contender in one season, which is what you're expecting here, otherwise those teams who don't are treadmill.

Philly needs to make the ECF this year, otherwise they are far closer to a treadmill 1st Rnd / 2nd Rnd team that is capped out and no lotto picks, and very much doing the same things every year with not much added success to show for it. The talent is there if they can keep playing like Game 1, but the rest of the games need to be played.

Toronto's two best players are 28 years old. Treadmill!

And yet, the Sixers with a 32 year old managed a measly 3 more wins than TO. Tough treadmill for Philly.

[YogurtProducer]

raptors fans still so mad about an airplane for 3 seconds in a series they won in a season they won the championship

what a strange thing to get attached to. It is far more disrespectful to do the "too small" thing that like half the players in the league do

IDK a single Raps fan mad about the airplane. I like to laugh about it because it must be embarrassing af for Embiid to showboat like that in a series he loses

[YogurtProducer]

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

Well after 2020, the Lowry Era is done, the cycle was over. Last year we were pretty bad but also in Tampa, and played for a top pick when it was obvious we weren't going to the playoffs, due to covid absences and our roster, Tampa.

So we end up getting the 4th pick which turns out to be Barnes. No one thought the Raps would be a 48 win team, that Barnes would be this good this quick. Masai hasn't ever done a traditional rebuild, but he's said so himself that this is a team with growing pains to be had. We're in between the we the north Era and transitioning to a post Era with FVV, Siakam, and Barnes developing.

Masai all he's been doing is accruing talent, while trying to remain competitive. Aside from the players I've mentioned we have OG who's 25? Trent is 23 and Achiiuwa is 22? Somewhere in that range. Barnes is 20. Lots of assets going forward, putting us in a familiar situation where we might be able to make a trade in the future. I'm thinking it might be one of fvv or siakam, but we'll see what happens

So basically because Lowry walked and you used a draft pick, it's a rebuilding year. Got it.

Maybe because Vegas had us at 36 wins, most of the Raptors board thought we were a play-in team at best, and our GM came out and said this season is a rebuild and developmental year?

[binjumper]

Well after 2020, the Lowry Era is done, the cycle was over. Last year we were pretty bad but also in Tampa, and played for a top pick when it was obvious we weren't going to the playoffs, due to covid absences and our roster, Tampa.

So we end up getting the 4th pick which turns out to be Barnes. No one thought the Raps would be a 48 win team, that Barnes would be this good this quick. Masai hasn't ever done a traditional rebuild, but he's said so himself that this is a team with growing pains to be had. We're in between the we the north Era and transitioning to a post Era with FVV, Siakam, and Barnes developing.

Masai all he's been doing is accruing talent, while trying to remain competitive. Aside from the players I've mentioned we have OG who's 25? Trent is 23 and Achiiuwa is 22? Somewhere in that range. Barnes is 20. Lots of assets going forward, putting us in a familiar situation where we might be able to make a trade in the future. I'm thinking it might be one of fvv or siakam, but we'll see what happens

So basically because Lowry walked and you used a draft pick, it's a rebuilding year. Got it.

Maybe because Vegas had us at 36 wins, most of the Raptors board thought we were a play-in team at best, and our GM came out and said this season is a rebuild and developmental year?

Funny this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. Literally no one in all the sports media outlets picked this team to make the playoffs. You explained in detail while you were given a one line narrow minded answer. Better to not waste you time discussing things that can get difficult for some people to understand. Let's hope Embiid and Harden don't flop on their most likely last chance to win a chip. Maybe another 6 years of tanking will humble them a bit.

[SelfishPlayer]

No, that really isn't what treadmilling means.

Most normal people understand it to mean good enough to make the playoffs and not bad enough to get a pick, but not just once - repeatedly - with no real means to improve. When you keep doing the same thing but neither move forward or backward THAT is when teams are treadmilling.

The Raptors were in the lotto last year and making a playoff appearance this year, as a first step on their way back up. If they flub it for multiple years in a row and don't exit 1st or 2nd round repeatedly, then you can come back here and call them a treadmill team.

Teams have up and down cycles, and almost no one ever goes from lotto team to title contender in one season, which is what you're expecting here, otherwise those teams who don't are treadmill.

Philly needs to make the ECF this year, otherwise they are far closer to a treadmill 1st Rnd / 2nd Rnd team that is capped out and no lotto picks, and very much doing the same things every year with not much added success to show for it. The talent is there if they can keep playing like Game 1, but the rest of the games need to be played.

Toronto's two best players are 28 years old. Treadmill!

And yet, the Sixers with a 32 year old managed a measly 3 more wins than TO. Tough treadmill for Philly.

Sweep!

[SelfishPlayer]

So basically because Lowry walked and you used a draft pick, it's a rebuilding year. Got it.

Maybe because Vegas had us at 36 wins, most of the Raptors board thought we were a play-in team at best, and our GM came out and said this season is a rebuild and developmental year?

Funny this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. Literally no one in all the sports media outlets picked this team to make the playoffs. You explained in detail while you were given a one line narrow minded answer. Better to not waste you time discussing things that can get difficult for some people to understand. Let's hope Embiid and Harden don't flop on their most likely last chance to win a chip. Maybe another 6 years of tanking will humble them a bit.

Rebuild? Toronto never built a champion. They received a disgruntled superstar in return for the star they built.

[BullyKing]

Lmao @ anyone who thinks the Raps are a treadmill team. We're 5th place in the east in a rebuilding year, we have our cornerstone piece in Scottie, Trent and Achiuwa have developed nicely and we're getting all star level play from FVV and Siakam. Life's good

This is the sixers time to do it, I don't know if they get passed Miami in round 2 but they should be beating us in round 1. I expect more of a fight tonight

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

3 starters are under 25 years old. The main bench piece is a second year player.

Those rebuilding Phoenix Suns also have three starters 25 and under. The Raptors may be a young and upcoming team as opposed to on the decline but the idea that this is a rebuilding year is ridiculous.

[Black Mage]

This is the exact play I was thinking of! Can anyone explain how this is a foul on Boucher? I've seen this so many times in this league, where someone is standing with their hands up and it's a foul. Nowadays an offensive player can just run into a defensive player and that's a foul too, which is more understandable compared to standing with your hands up.

It's really not hard to understand if you know anything about NBA rules. A defender must keep his arms straight up. Boucher leaned his arm(s) forward as Embiid was going up and then after the ball was out he pulled them back to be straight up. You'll clearly see his arm fall forward into Embiid's air space at the .02 second mark.

That's an easy Fouls 101 call against a defender especially a big at the rim.

::EDIT:: Here I even did the work for you and have a link for the rule you clearly don't know about.

https://official.nba.com/nba-rule-authority-restricted-area-and-verticality-plays/

You know, I was genuinely curious and here you are actually answering the question, so thank you. But why are you such a jerk about it? Is this how you answer questions to people? Come on now.

Apologies, if it was genuine. As you may have noticed, many of the game thread pages consisted of Raptors fans crying about the foul calls. You were also responding to one such commenter so I hope you can understand how I would confuse your comment as being yet another complainer and not an honest question.

Glad I could provide an actual answer tho!

[Exp0sed]

What's up with all the talk about the whistles for embiid? You guys are new to the NBA? It's called superstar calls. Sixers had to life through it since Iverson was gone. No whistles for us either. It's just how the NBA works since the Jordan days. (If it happened before MJ too I apologize, I am not old enough to have seen bird/magic live)


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I guess Jokic (soon to be 2x MVP) isn't a superstar cause he gets 6 FTA a game despite shooting a large majority of his shots at rim or in paint...

His FG% is so high in the paint that it's almost better for teams to hack him intentionally than let him touch it in the paint, yet he gets 6 FTA?

it's more than that imo

Embiid and Harden play in deliberate ways and in a manner that generally forces referees to make calls. They create a lot of contact and flop\flail\fall down endlessly

They're not the only players in the league that do that, and not the only stars to do it but they both, independantly of each other have been doing it for years. Harden is the more blatant offender of the two, cuz of he actively tries to bait opponents to fouls in ways that are contrary to the common sense (and custom..sometimes even) of the sport, but don't fool urselves - Embiid is no small potato in that regard, not by a long shot.

Thing is - that's not on them:
the games are officiated in a manner that allows and even enables it. even existing rules to prevent such occurences aren't enforced for the most part..thus making this strategy very viable and def a strategy worth employing.

Instead of being punished for it or at the very least - not rewarded for it, they are in fact rewarded for it and as result - these practices spread out across the league, to other players seeking to gain that same advantage.

How many players are trying for the 'rip thru' fouls rn? how many were doing that just 5 seasons ago?
there are many more examples

Conversly, Jokic Complains to the refs (a lot), sometimes in violent manners that i'm sure American officials don't particularly apprecciate
European fans will know what i'm talking about here..in general his demeanor is pretty confortational and disrespectful to refs
it's kind of like he's a fan that just sees the referee as a sort of 'enemy', this weird entity always out to get him.
That comes more from the Euro tradition of Fans and european basketball fans, in the NBA that was dominant with American culture - I think it's a mentality that was pretty rare for NBA players to have.

He complains a bunch, even tho to be honest he is being officiated unfairly from day 1, no denying he's a complainer tho
but..he doesn't flop, flail or bait as much as Philly stars and other players who play like that around the league
He's making basketball plays for the most part, not plays that are designed for the refs to be under maximum pressure to make a decision. The no-call is getting rarer as time goes by (sadly).


Do u guys rly think that Jokic would only end up with 6 FTA a games if he were to flail and fall, flop and exaggerate constantly the way Embiid does? (or other players...I have already said Embiid and Harden are far from the only ones employing these strategies)

that's nonsense...Since the league doesn't appear to actually be intrested in neither fighting these trends, nor the constant complaining to the refs that is also on the rise, league wide. some stars are just relentless in this (Jokic included even tho he's probably not even in the list of 5 worst offenders in the league rn) - also some non-star player, and even players who make their bread and butter doing it with an emphasis on the defensive end - Smart, Lowry, Beverly etc.

Embiid and Harden's strategy of putting maximum pressure on refs, by selling every contact and misrepresnting the contact at other times - is clearly working. So eventually, either more players will adopt it in a 'if u can't beat them, join them' kind of way or hopefully - The fans and the league will get to have some say in this and influence the current trends

To me personally, it creates a dilluted washed out version of the NBA i'd rather watch but I'm sure others feel completely different about it as it is entirely 100% subjective and a matter of preference

[ATLTimekeeper]

Management made a decision at the trade deadline last year to go young. They don't rebuild like the 76ers. They do it right, by just dipping in and out and supporting young prospects with winners. But, they did make a commitment to playing Barnes as a starter and keeping Achiuwa in the line-up rain or shine (and there was a lot of rain earlier). Their original goal was to repeat the 2013/14 season, and they accomplished that. So not a classic rebuild where they were expecting to be bad and turned out to be good, but more of a win on our own terms re-tool type of year.

[Black Mage]

Lmao @ anyone who thinks the Raps are a treadmill team. We're 5th place in the east in a rebuilding year, we have our cornerstone piece in Scottie, Trent and Achiuwa have developed nicely and we're getting all star level play from FVV and Siakam. Life's good

This is the sixers time to do it, I don't know if they get passed Miami in round 2 but they should be beating us in round 1. I expect more of a fight tonight

This is a sound and reasonable post. You sure you're on the right site?

For the Raptors to be in this position in year 2 of a 5-7 year rebuild is VERY satisfying, regardless of the outcome of this series.

Calling it a 5-7 year rebuild is also a joke. You lost Kawhi (expected) and punted on an aging Lowry (smart business move). The rest of the core roster from a title team is essentially in tact. Raptors returned FVV, Siakam, OG, Boucher. At best the Raptors did a "Re-tool."

A rebuild is when a team starts over from scratch. Not when it punts aging past prime vets out and holds onto the youth who were already in development with title run experience.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Sounds like Barnes will be good to go for round 2, possibly even sneaking back by the end of this series. The Raptors just need one of the next two games and then they'll be good.

[Black Mage]

Do craps have any chance tonight? Their fans have multiple excuses ready in advance once again.

What a climb down from all the trash the craps were spewing prior to the series!

No need to denigrate the name of the team.

[binjumper]

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

3 starters are under 25 years old. The main bench piece is a second year player.

Those rebuilding Phoenix Suns also have three starters 25 and under. The Raptors may be a young and upcoming team as opposed to on the decline but the idea that this is a rebuilding year is ridiculous.

1. Suns have CP who just set a record of the oldest player to get 30 - 10. He's the MVP of that team.

2. This is from the guy who built this team.

This, of course, begins with the new era of basketball that starts in the 2021-22 season, to which Ujiri said "we're going to rebuild as a team. We're a young team but there's no deficit in leadership. You know, Fred [VanVleet] is an unbelievable leader. This is what everybody is going to see now, you know, the kind of leader he is.

"We are not a team of 'now,'" Ujiri added. "There are going to be growing pains, trust me, you know like, sometimes it's gonna be tough to watch but we know what's coming, we know we're excited about the young talent. They are excited to play – to see how, OG [Anunoby], Pascal [Siakam], Fred, are going to evolve as leaders – as elite players.

"And then the young guys, [Scottie] Barnes, Malachi [Flynn], Dalano [Banton]. In sports, people think 'now,' you know? And this is where we have to be patient and let it grow."

I am not gonna argue what sixers fans believe is built considering we were never the team that bought. Other dude brought up disgruntled stars when sixers had Ben Simmons and now Harden.

[aj174]

Maybe because Vegas had us at 36 wins, most of the Raptors board thought we were a play-in team at best, and our GM came out and said this season is a rebuild and developmental year?

Funny this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. Literally no one in all the sports media outlets picked this team to make the playoffs. You explained in detail while you were given a one line narrow minded answer. Better to not waste you time discussing things that can get difficult for some people to understand. Let's hope Embiid and Harden don't flop on their most likely last chance to win a chip. Maybe another 6 years of tanking will humble them a bit.

Rebuild? Toronto never built a champion. They received a disgruntled superstar in return for the star they built.

Haha Toronto absolutely built a champion. They had a 59 win team and replaced Derozan with Kawhi. Building can be through trades and draft.

[bebopdeluxe]

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

Well after 2020, the Lowry Era is done, the cycle was over. Last year we were pretty bad but also in Tampa, and played for a top pick when it was obvious we weren't going to the playoffs, due to covid absences and our roster, Tampa.

So we end up getting the 4th pick which turns out to be Barnes. No one thought the Raps would be a 48 win team, that Barnes would be this good this quick. Masai hasn't ever done a traditional rebuild, but he's said so himself that this is a team with growing pains to be had. We're in between the we the north Era and transitioning to a post Era with FVV, Siakam, and Barnes developing.

Masai all he's been doing is accruing talent, while trying to remain competitive. Aside from the players I've mentioned we have OG who's 25? Trent is 23 and Achiiuwa is 22? Somewhere in that range. Barnes is 20. Lots of assets going forward, putting us in a familiar situation where we might be able to make a trade in the future. I'm thinking it might be one of fvv or siakam, but we'll see what happens

So basically because Lowry walked and you used a draft pick, it's a rebuilding year. Got it.

Seriously. Unless I am missing something, the only "rebuilding" was Lowry for Barnes/Precious. Still had FVV, Siakam, OG, Trent Jr., Boucher, Birch all back from last year's team. What is the "rebuild" here?

[Perseus1966]

i expect sixers to sweep. if they take it to 6, something is very wrong with them they wont win a title.

If Embiid is allowed to elbow guys in the face and run through people with impunity then Sixers will win the championship because there's literally no one in the NBA who can stop him.

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Brook with the bear hug

[pingpongrac]

What exactly makes this a rebuilding year for the Raptors?

3 starters are under 25 years old. The main bench piece is a second year player.

Those rebuilding Phoenix Suns also have three starters 25 and under. The Raptors may be a young and upcoming team as opposed to on the decline but the idea that this is a rebuilding year is ridiculous.

Almost the entire roster was overhauled with players in their early 20s a few months after Toronto finished with 27 wins and was in the deep lottery last season. No one expected Toronto to be a +.500 team (or even comfortably make the playoffs) in the offseason. At various points, Toronto has played 6 rookies or sophomores meaningful minutes while half of their top minute getters are players under 25 that they acquired in the past year; Barnes (1st in total minutes) started every game he was available, GTJ started every game he was available after the season opener and Achiuwa started ~30 games while averaging 24 MPG on the season.

In the past ~12 months, Toronto traded two long-term vets in Lowry (36) and Powell (28) for Achiuwa (22) and Trent Jr. (23) plus they traded a couple bench players in Davis (24) and Thomas (27) for 2nd round picks that turned into Johnson (21) and Banton (22). They let Baynes (35), Hood (29), Bembry (27), Watson (27) and Johnson (25) walk then re-signed Birch (29) before adding Champagnie (20), Bonga (22) and Svi (24) in FA and Barnes (20) with the 4th pick. As the season progressed, they traded Dragic (35, not playing for Toronto for months) for Thad (33, would play for Toronto immediately) and picked up Brooks (23).

So yes, this absolutely was a rebuilding year. Heck, Masai did a sideline interview during the first game of the season and said something along the lines of "this is a development year with a very young team that will have growing pains."

[aj174]

Well after 2020, the Lowry Era is done, the cycle was over. Last year we were pretty bad but also in Tampa, and played for a top pick when it was obvious we weren't going to the playoffs, due to covid absences and our roster, Tampa.

So we end up getting the 4th pick which turns out to be Barnes. No one thought the Raps would be a 48 win team, that Barnes would be this good this quick. Masai hasn't ever done a traditional rebuild, but he's said so himself that this is a team with growing pains to be had. We're in between the we the north Era and transitioning to a post Era with FVV, Siakam, and Barnes developing.

Masai all he's been doing is accruing talent, while trying to remain competitive. Aside from the players I've mentioned we have OG who's 25? Trent is 23 and Achiiuwa is 22? Somewhere in that range. Barnes is 20. Lots of assets going forward, putting us in a familiar situation where we might be able to make a trade in the future. I'm thinking it might be one of fvv or siakam, but we'll see what happens

So basically because Lowry walked and you used a draft pick, it's a rebuilding year. Got it.

Seriously. Unless I am missing something, the only "rebuilding" was Lowry for Barnes/Precious. Still had FVV, Siakam, OG, Trent Jr., Boucher, Birch all back from last year's team. What is the "rebuild" here?

Look at the post a few above this one and the moves that were made in the last 12 or so months. Whatever you wanna call it, this team is far and beyond from a finished product.