Which player would be best suited to guard Jokic 1 on 1 over a 7 game series?

[No-more-rings]

See above, who would be the best bet in your mind? This year's Jokic is more mobile than prior years but not as strong or heavy not sure how that effects things.

[giordunk]

I'm tempted to say Rodman as a bit of a copout answer. Jokic is obviously very different from other elite centers so a dominant defensive shot-blocking force down low isn't the obvious answer, but physicality definitely matters as we saw a Lakers Dwight Howard had success guarding Jokic in 2020 playoffs.

I'd still say Rodman - I think the combination of basketball IQ, getting under his skin, and physicality are all a good combo. Maybe Rasheed Wallace as well.

[Owly]

Not saying it's the choice but Sabonis would be interesting.

Taking an L in agility department (assuming we're talking NBA Sabonis).
But he has:
The bulk to stand his ground better than most.
The size to contest (without leaving his feet) and to obscure passing lanes.
The BBIQ to maybe see the court ... I'm inclined to say almost as well as Jokic.

I don't know ... but it would be fun to watch.

[70sFan]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

[No-more-rings]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

There’s limited poll options.

[70sFan]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

There’s limited poll options.

Of course, though I don't think Robinson or Wallace are better choices than Thurmond, even for consideration.

[falcolombardi]

Not saying it's the choice but Sabonis would be interesting.

Taking an L in agility department (assuming we're talking NBA Sabonis).
But he has:
The bulk to stand his ground better than most.
The size to contest (without leaving his feet) and to obscure passing lanes.
The BBIQ to maybe see the court ... I'm inclined to say almost as well as Jokic.

I don't know ... but it would be fun to watch.

is hard to see sabonis as a bbiq peer to jokic, as impressive as aome of his passes are, the assistts total or assist/turnover ratio are like 10 notches below jokic

he had as many turnover as assists in the nba, is hard to imagine him as jokic-like considering that

[70sFan]

Not saying it's the choice but Sabonis would be interesting.

Taking an L in agility department (assuming we're talking NBA Sabonis).
But he has:
The bulk to stand his ground better than most.
The size to contest (without leaving his feet) and to obscure passing lanes.
The BBIQ to maybe see the court ... I'm inclined to say almost as well as Jokic.

I don't know ... but it would be fun to watch.

is hard to see sabonis as a bbiq peer to jokic, as impressive as aome of his passes are, the assistts total or assist/turnover ratio are like 10 notches below jokic

he had as many turnover as assists in the nba, is hard to imagine him as jokic-like considering that

NBA Sabonis would also struggle to guard Jokic without the ball. Joker is very active off-ball, he destroys most bigger centers with his combination of shooting and cutting to the basket off screens. Sabonis certainly wouldn't have the agility or conditioning to chase down Jokic.

[Samurai]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

Thurmond is a great choice since I think he is the best man defender for a big. The other one who would check all the boxes would be a prime (and healthy) Bill Walton, particularly for his discipline, elite fundamentals and basketball IQ.

[70sFan]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

Thurmond is a great choice since I think he is the best man defender for a big. The other one who would check all the boxes would be a prime (and healthy) Bill Walton, particularly for his discipline, elite fundamentals and basketball IQ.

Walton is an excellent choice as well. I might prefer Thurmond slightly because he was a bit more athletic and stronger, but it's a nice mention. Duncan would be a decent choice as well.

[Owly]

Not saying it's the choice but Sabonis would be interesting.

Taking an L in agility department (assuming we're talking NBA Sabonis).
But he has:
The bulk to stand his ground better than most.
The size to contest (without leaving his feet) and to obscure passing lanes.
The BBIQ to maybe see the court ... I'm inclined to say almost as well as Jokic.

I don't know ... but it would be fun to watch.

is hard to see sabonis as a bbiq peer to jokic, as impressive as aome of his passes are, the assistts total or assist/turnover ratio are like 10 notches below jokic

he had as many turnover as assists in the nba, is hard to imagine him as jokic-like considering that

Okay ... I will say/grant that "almost as well as" was a rough off top of head vague handwave rather a specific attempt to systematically grade BBIQ and in part perhaps attempt not to annoy anyone on either side.

That said A/T ratio (as someone who will look at it) is a poor way to assess vision or BBIQ. You'd come out thinking Sidney Lowe, Pooh Richardson and John Paxson were the guys seeing all the angles, when really they were risk-averse non-penetrating point guards.

FWIW, He didn't have as many turnovers as assists. Fwiw, Robinson is about 1:1. Sheed is a little above, but a a glance still worse on lower volume, lower rate. Kareem, Duncan and especially Garnett and are good by this measure. But none was to my knowledge a home-run, audacious passer or a guy throwing big outlets. Not that these are directly comparable across different offensive roles.

And I'd argue Sabonis saw the court better than anyone on the longlist, most aren't debatable or remotely close. I don't know because it's one of those loose, imaginary things and because it's not quite clear what these notches are trying to measure [at very least trying to mash two box elements together - unclear how] but if the gap is something like "10 notches" any scale of anything in this area ... your scale will need to have a lot of notches to then also be able to usefully compare centers and distinguish between Sabonis and say Olajuwon and then Olajuwon to say a Zo/Moses/Duckworth/Seikaly ... nevermind to an Acie Earl or a Yinka Dare. I'm inclined to think Sabonis was a top 1 percent passer at center and if this curve is going meaningfully compare centers ... I'll just say it's fair that Jokic might break the curve on a passing center scale.

Not saying it's the choice but Sabonis would be interesting.

Taking an L in agility department (assuming we're talking NBA Sabonis).
But he has:
The bulk to stand his ground better than most.
The size to contest (without leaving his feet) and to obscure passing lanes.
The BBIQ to maybe see the court ... I'm inclined to say almost as well as Jokic.

I don't know ... but it would be fun to watch.

is hard to see sabonis as a bbiq peer to jokic, as impressive as aome of his passes are, the assistts total or assist/turnover ratio are like 10 notches below jokic

he had as many turnover as assists in the nba, is hard to imagine him as jokic-like considering that

NBA Sabonis would also struggle to guard Jokic without the ball. Joker is very active off-ball, he destroys most bigger centers with his combination of shooting and cutting to the basket off screens. Sabonis certainly wouldn't have the agility or conditioning to chase down Jokic.

First I'll agree on Thurmond. I almost noted him as an omission for players with reps as man-defenders at center ... he's maybe at the top. That said even for him ... he's more noted for taking out Abdul-Jabbar's scoring efficiency. Young Abdul- Jabbar doesn't have the heft of Jokic, nor is Jokic primarily about post-ups and his vision is out of this world ... it's a very different challenge.

That said ... yes, NBA version he's not as agile (a younger version might be preferable, but less know to us) ... and am not saying I'd pick him given one ... and part of it was a desire to just see the matchup ... that much was already said. In defense of it though you could pick holes in every one of these guys. None of them has seen a Jokic before, most either would get bullied, or at best haven't shown they could guard a guy on the outside like Jokic or both. Whilst some have top end defensive BBIQ none saw the floor as Jokic did on offense and most aren't remotely close so whilst defense is different and from a different perspective it's at least arguably hard for them to see and think as he did (how much this actually helps, given the different perspective is debatable).

To me the answer is (1) there's no good individual answer and (2) you don't draw up defensive gameplans on individuals and (2a) especially not against a guy doing so much damage by his passing, (2b) especially not when the guy has poor teammates which gives you a much better shot at damaging team effectiveness.

[rand]

Having seen the video of old Wilt guarding prime Kareem, it's hard not to pick him.

[ty 4191]

Having seen the video of old Wilt guarding prime Kareem, it's hard not to pick him.

I have. And 70's Fan certainly has. Wilt lost 10 inches on his vertical after knee surgery in 1969. He still blocked many of Kareem's Sky Hooks (Kareem himself said that nobody else ever did)...

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Read on Twitter

By the time he faced Kareem? He was a shell of his healthy, former self. Still did well, all things considered.

[mdonnelly1989]

You have to answer the question - what do you need to defend Jokic successfully?

1. Size not defend him in the post.
2. Length to contest his shots, as he wasn't much of a vertical finisher.
3. Just enough quickness to defend him without the ball.
4. Extreme discipline and fundamentals.

Nate Thurmond checks all the boxes. Why not going for the perfect choice here? Lack of him on this poll is very concerning.

Lmfaooo I read your comment about Nate Thurmond before you even posted it

[mdonnelly1989]

Wilts length and athletic ability would really give Jokic some fits...

I voted KG but I think Wilt actually

[ronnymac2]

Draymond Green

You don't need a monster post defender or whoever you think guarded Wilt or Shaq the best. LOL at the panic.

[dygaction]

Need to add Anthony Davis, Ayton, and Draymond in the choices...

[70sFan]

Need to add Anthony Davis, Ayton, and Draymond in the choices...

Davis is relatively poor choice against Jokic, given what we've seen.

[70sFan]

Having seen the video of old Wilt guarding prime Kareem, it's hard not to pick him.

I have. And 70's Fan certainly has. Wilt lost 10 inches on his vertical after knee surgery in 1969. He still blocked many of Kareem's Sky Hooks (Kareem himself said that nobody else ever did)...

Read on Twitter

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By the time he faced Kareem? He was a shell of his healthy, former self. Still did well, all things considered.

The problem with Wilt is that he was inconsistent with guarding perimeter and he loved sagging off his man to guard the paint. That wouldn't work vs Jokic.

[70sFan]

First I'll agree on Thurmond. I almost noted him as an omission for players with reps as man-defenders at center ... he's maybe at the top. That said even for him ... he's more noted for taking out Abdul-Jabbar's scoring efficiency. Young Abdul- Jabbar doesn't have the heft of Jokic, nor is Jokic primarily about post-ups and his vision is out of this world ... it's a very different challenge.

Well, I didn't pick Thurmond strictly because of his work against Kareem.

About the heft, well Thurmond also did tremendous job on Wilt who was significantly bigger and stronger than Jokic. When you also take a look at Thurmond work against someone like Bob Lanier (similar physique, very skilled scorer who could do damage in the post with this strength), it's also notable how well he fared:

1972-74 Lanier: 24.0 ppg, 14.4 rpg, 3.5 apg on 49.6 FG%, 77.9 FT% and 53.7 TS% in 38.4 mpg
vs Thurmond (15 games): 18.3 ppg, 15.7 rpg, 4.5 apg on 41.1 FG%, 89.1 FT% and 46.9 TS% in 41.8 mpg

Sample of size isn't huge, but 15 games is enough that one outlier game wouldn't influence averages too much. Lanier was of course different than Jokic, but he's the closest one to him in terms of scoring repertoire that existed back then in my opinion.

Thurmond also had quite a lot of success against bigs that were not primarly post up centers as well. Willis Reed was more of an off-ball and P&R player than post up specialist and Thurmond completely dominated him H2H.

There is another thing with Thurmond though, that puts him extremely high for me in this discussion. Thurmond was extremely focused on his H2H matchups. He's known for scouting his opponents, studying their strengths and weaknesses. He'd definitely try to find a weakness in Jokic's skillset and take advantage out of it. Thurmond had the perfect combination of physical profile and mindset to limit your opposing star.

To me the answer is (1) there's no good individual answer and (2) you don't draw up defensive gameplans on individuals and (2a) especially not against a guy doing so much damage by his passing, (2b) especially not when the guy has poor teammates which gives you a much better shot at damaging team effectiveness.

That's 100% true, you can't stop at individual matchups against Jokic.