Kevin Love has never made the playoffs without LeBron

[cpower]

Lebron has never won any rings without Wade, Irving and AD.

[Woodsanity]

Lebron has never won any rings without Wade, Irving and AD.

Jordan has won 0 rings without Pippen. Pretty silly take if you are serious and I don't particularly like Lebron.

[bbalnation]

You noted offensive value, but Chris really sacrificed to bring it defensively. I've seen a lot of bigger players anchoring defenses, so it makes sense.

Just for clarity, in no way was I crapping on Bosh. He filled his role very effectively. he was a better defender for Miami than he ever was for Toronto, in part due to that reduced offensive load and his fit in their scheme.

I hear you, I never took it as direct criticism of Chris, though the clarification probably helps.

I was chiming in to add more context, in terms of what that reduced offensive role looked like for Chris: elite defensive output with a different (safe to say better in a lot of ways than the Cavs?) defensive supporting cast.

[tsherkin]

You noted offensive value, but Chris really sacrificed to bring it defensively. I've seen a lot of bigger players anchoring defenses, so it makes sense.

Just for clarity, in no way was I crapping on Bosh. He filled his role very effectively. he was a better defender for Miami than he ever was for Toronto, in part due to that reduced offensive load and his fit in their scheme.

I hear you, I never took it as direct criticism of Chris, though the clarification probably helps.

I was chiming in to add more context, in terms of what that reduced offensive role looked like for Chris: elite defensive output with a different (safe to say better in a lot of ways than the Cavs?) defensive supporting cast.

For sure, and it was helpful!

[AbeVigodaLive]

guys love was avging 26 and 12 for a entire season he was making history.

In no way, shape or form is that "making history."

Yes. He was good, not great. BUT... he was a bit of a historical anomaly for those woeful Timberwolves:

2011 — Kevin Love finished 9th in the league in win shares... on a team that went 17 - 65. Nobody else in the top 19 was on a team with fewer than 44 wins.

2012 — Kevin Love finished 4th in win shares... on a team that went 26 - 40. Nobody else in the top 20 was on a team with a losing record.

2014 — Kevin Love finished 3rd in win shares... on a team that went 40 - 42. Nobody else in the top 11 was on a team that won fewer than 48 games. I guess that type of stuff happens when the team's 2nd best player shoots 38% fg.

_____

Kevin Love is the only NBA player in the past 25 years to be in the top 5 for win shares 2x on losing teams. In fact, I believe only Elton Brand in 2002 has accomplished this feat (for a 39-win team). Brand also finished 7th on a 40-win Clippers squad.

I could not find anybody else who's ever finished in the top 10... or even top 20... on a team that lost 60+ games.

[cpower]

Lebron has never won any rings without Wade, Irving and AD.

Jordan has won 0 rings without Pippen. Pretty silly take if you are serious and I don't particularly like Lebron.

i was just responding to OP

[Woodsanity]

Lebron has never won any rings without Wade, Irving and AD.

Jordan has won 0 rings without Pippen. Pretty silly take if you are serious and I don't particularly like Lebron.

i was just responding to OP

Fair enough

[G35]

I kind of see both points.

11-14, he was pretty sick offensively, though. He obviously took a hit going to Cleveland and playing with Lebron and Kyrie, of course. He was no defensive dynamo, and outside of 2014, he wasn't a HUGE monster offensively, but he was also young still and coming into his game. Would have been interesting to see what he might have accomplished had he a more solid team built around him as a feature, rather than slotting into the Miami Bosh role.

Him deciding to lose a crap ton of weight ruined him more than Lebron did.

He became a super finesse player without the athleticism and length to compliment that.

Imagine if Zach Randolph tried to play at 50 pounds lighter.

Yes, that is my recollection as well. He fit quite well alongside Lebron. His ORB dropped and he had fewer overall touches but he got his looks. Kyrie and Lebron were just better scoring options, very much like Lebron and Wade v Bosh in Miami He knew what he was signing up for.

I think that most people do not realize what they are signing up for...you have to experience the situation to understand the situation. I believe most people only learn through first hand experience, they do not listen to those who experienced similar situations. Many people think they are unique and will be able to navigate situations differently than others.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/10/lebron-james-chris-bosh-kevin-love-extremely-frustrating-interview-cleveland-cavaliers

Chris Bosh has some advice for Kevin Love now that the former Minnesota Timberwolves star is going to Cleveland to play equal partner second fiddle to LeBron James.

In a conversation with Ethan Skolnick of Bleacher Report, Bosh spoke about the difficulties of adjusting his game, attitude and expectations while playing with James as part of Miami’s “big three.”

“Yeah, it’s a lot more difficult taking a step back, because you’re used to doing something a certain way and getting looks a certain way. And then it’s like, well, no, for the benefit of the team, you have to get it here.”

Not that Bosh has regrets. He tells Skolnick that great things can come from the partnership but that “it’s never easy.”

As for Love, Bosh says he’ll have to “fight a lot of his instincts” to get the ball down low and use his athleticism to get to the hoop.

“It’s going to be very difficult for him. Even if I was in his corner and I was able to tell him what to expect and what to do, it still doesn’t make any difference. You still have to go through things, you still have to figure out things on your own. It’s extremely difficult and extremely frustrating. He’s going to have to deal with that.”

Love knows he’s going to have to make some changes to his play in order for the Cavaliers to succeed. He admitted it at Cleveland’s media day last month. “I’d be lying to myself and lying to everybody here if I was telling you I didn’t have to sacrifice,” Love said.

If players know what they are signing up for when they play with Lebron, then basically you are removing any excuses for the results. You know what you are doing, do not claim ignorance or surprise at how things turn out.

Just like Lebron should know the same thing:
- realize that playing with three elite players, someone is going to have to sacrifice and someone's production is going to do down. This has happened twice with Love and Bosh, where they both come in and there is a disappointment in how it turned out

- Signing Anthony Davis, knowing he has had an extensive injury history...Lebron knew what he was getting when the Lakers traded for him

- Signing Russell Westbrook...you know how he plays...you know his personality...but you signed him anyway....you know what you are getting with Westbrook

- Signing Frank Vogel you know he is a defensive coach...and if you do not sign defensive players...if you have an older roster....you know what you are getting


When players decide to go into the NBA, you know what you are signing up for, you know that you have to give interviews, you have to deal with obnoxious fans, you are going to have critics in the media...players know what they are signing up for...but people still act surprised when it happens.....

[JonFromVA]

Love's change in attitude happened because not only was he healthy and able to contribute, he felt he had a coach who had his back, and the team was starting to gel and play meaningful games again. They even brought in Ricky Rubio which somehow didn't rekindle old animosities but instead relit old chemistries.

It really has nothing to do with LeBron or Bosh, and everything about Kevin finding a new way to help a team that plays to his strengths and doesn't constantly expose his weaknesses.

[SonicMcMahon]

Mitch Richmond was hella good. Took the Kings to the playoffs and would have upset the sonics if he didn't get hurt.

If you're referring to '96, not a chance man.

[bbalnation]

Just for clarity, in no way was I crapping on Bosh. He filled his role very effectively. he was a better defender for Miami than he ever was for Toronto, in part due to that reduced offensive load and his fit in their scheme.

I hear you, I never took it as direct criticism of Chris, though the clarification probably helps.

I was chiming in to add more context, in terms of what that reduced offensive role looked like for Chris: elite defensive output with a different (safe to say better in a lot of ways than the Cavs?) defensive supporting cast.

For sure, and it was helpful!

[Pelon chingon]

Mitch Richmond was hella good. Took the Kings to the playoffs and would have upset the sonics if he didn't get hurt.

If you're referring to '96, not a chance man.

Straight up you guys were about to smell what the rock was cooking.

[SonicMcMahon]

Mitch Richmond was hella good. Took the Kings to the playoffs and would have upset the sonics if he didn't get hurt.

If you're referring to '96, not a chance man.

Straight up you guys were about to smell what the rock was cooking.

Haha, okay. Well, I was twelve at the time and remember being disappointed it wasn't a sweep... then we swept the defending champs and took one of the greatest teams ever to 6 games in the NBA finals.

But y'know, can't say I watched that series with a closeness I would today. And I'll give it up for Mitch too: Boy was a scorer.

If ever the Kings and Sonics meet again, maybe we can watch over a beer... ya simpleton.

[tsherkin]

I think that most people do not realize what they are signing up for...you have to experience the situation to understand the situation. I believe most people only learn through first hand experience, they do not listen to those who experienced similar situations. Many people think they are unique and will be able to navigate situations differently than others.

I think it's reasonable to suggest he didn't know what it would be like in terms of the fan response to him, yeah. But he'd have to be a complete clown of a human not to realize that he was sacrificing shots, and thus counting stats, going to a team with one of the best scorers in league history and a ball-handling scoring point. And he acknowledged this with the word "sacrifice" himself, in the linked article.

Also, Bosh was discussing difficulty, not an issue of expectation. Knowing what you're signing up for and finding it simple/easy are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

[KrAzY3]

Lebron has never won any rings without Wade, Irving and AD.

Jordan has won 0 rings without Pippen. Pretty silly take if you are serious and I don't particularly like Lebron.

Perhaps he was just making a point about the assertion of the topic itself.

I mean we can flip that right back around right? Pippen won 0 rings without Jordan. It is a team sport so when we start trying to credit success entirely to one individual it gets kind of difficult.

I mean who really won an NBA championship without a really good second star helping them? I guess it's Dirk in 2011 (ironically beating LeBron) and then how far back do we have to go?