Eastern Conference | Round 1 | (4) Philadelphia 76ers vs. (5) Toronto Raptors

[pingpongrac]

Scottie Barnes?

Added literally a future superstar in Barnes.
Not to mention, Achiuwa and Trent are terrific young prospects. Not sure why he makes it seem like they're cans or something.

Because the question is whether the Raptors are rebuilding. Yes, they added Barnes. They didn't trade a veteran for him or for the draft pick to draft him. They selected him with their pick. That doesn't transform the following season into a rebuilding season any more than it does for the other 25 times that used a first round pick on a player last year.

2018/19: traded DeRozan (28) + Poeltl (22) + 1st for Kawhi (27) + Green (31) and traded JV (26) + Wright (26) + Miles (30) + 2nd for Gasol (34). Won 58 games during the season and won the Championship with most of the roster being 30+ years old.

2019/20: lost Kawhi in FA and made some minor additions (RHJ, Davis, Thomas). Won 53 games in a shortened season and lost a hard-fought 7-game series to the Celtics in the 2nd round.

2020/21: lost Gasol and Ibaka in FA and filled them in with mediocre Cs (Baynes and Len). Made some trades at the deadline sending out Powell (27), Thomas (26) and Davis (23) for GTJ (22) and two 2nds. Won 27 games. Yuck.

2021/22: lost Baynes (34), Hood (29), Bembry (27), Watson (26) and Johnson (25) in FA and filled them in with Champagnie (20), Bonga (21) and Svi (24). Drafted Barnes (19) with their own 1st and Johnson (20) and Banton (21) with the 2nd they received in trades 3 months prior. Traded Lowry (35) for Dragic (35) + Achiuwa (21) then swapped Dragic for Thad (33) while sliding down a dozen spots from late 1st to early 2nd. Picked up Brooks (23) along the way and gave him some meaningful minutes while we were injured. Won 48 games with half of the active roster being newly acquired in the past ~12 months (GTJ, Achiuwa, Barnes, Banton, Svi, Brooks, Thad) and most of those players are in either their first or second season with actual NBA minutes.

How can you look at where Toronto was 2 or 3 seasons ago compared to now with a significantly younger and different roster yet still think "nope, Toronto isn't rebuilding because they kept a few players in their mid-20s and traded down 12 or 13 spots in the draft"?

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[cupcakesnake]

The treadmill vs. rebuilding discourse is getting tedious. I see the rebuilding narrative in terms of being built around Scottie's future, and I see the treadmill argument since their 2 best players just entered their prime. Neither is a great description of the Raptors, so trying to slap that label on isn't helping understand the particulars of that franchise. If you insist on a one-word descriptor, I hear "re-tooling" is a popular term.

The Raptors are clearly interested in finding a path bath to championship contention. The veterans of their 2019 squad (Kawhi, Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka) are gone. The young players from that team (Fred, OG, Siakam) have entered their prime, and all have had sort of break through seasons. The Raps had a nightmare season last year and combined with a bit of lottery lock, got a blue chipper in Scottie Barnes. The Raps have skewed young with their roster decisions. They haven't been eager to give up any of their homegrown talent, though they traded Norm for the younger GTJ (I think moreso due to contract flexibility reasons than talent). They gave their rookie all the minutes he could handle, and started the season by giving big rotation roles to guys like Dalano Banton and Justin Champagnie. Once they realized how good this team could be, they went for it. Despite some untimely injuries, it largely worked out: grabbing the 5th seed was no small task in an insanely competitive East.

The Raps are good now, but they are clearly trying to line things up to be better later. They have only 1 guy in his 30s on the roster. In another season or 2, if they haven't found a way back to contention, they maybe think harder about the trade market for Siakam and FVV. But right now, I imagine Masai and co. are on a Scottie Barnes (20) and OG (24) timeline.

Regardless, the Raps would love to win this series and will try their best to do so! The injuries suck, but I'll wait until this series is at game 4. Phili should bring the same energy as game 1 to defend their homecourt.

[SelfishPlayer]

Added literally a future superstar in Barnes.
Not to mention, Achiuwa and Trent are terrific young prospects. Not sure why he makes it seem like they're cans or something.

Because the question is whether the Raptors are rebuilding. Yes, they added Barnes. They didn't trade a veteran for him or for the draft pick to draft him. They selected him with their pick. That doesn't transform the following season into a rebuilding season any more than it does for the other 25 times that used a first round pick on a player last year.

2018/19: traded DeRozan (28) + Poeltl (22) + 1st for Kawhi (27) + Green (31) and traded JV (26) + Wright (26) + Miles (30) + 2nd for Gasol (34). Won 58 games during the season and won the Championship with most of the roster being 30+ years old.

2019/20: lost Kawhi in FA and made some minor additions (RHJ, Davis, Thomas). Won 53 games in a shortened season and lost a hard-fought 7-game series to the Celtics in the 2nd round.

2020/21: lost Gasol and Ibaka in FA and filled them in with mediocre Cs (Baynes and Len). Made some trades at the deadline sending out Powell (27), Thomas (26) and Davis (23) for GTJ (22) and two 2nds. Won 27 games. Yuck.

2021/22: lost Baynes (34), Hood (29), Bembry (27), Watson (26) and Johnson (25) in FA and filled them in with Champagnie (20), Bonga (21) and Svi (24). Drafted Barnes (19) with their own 1st and Johnson (20) and Banton (21) with the 2nd they received in trades 3 months prior. Traded Lowry (35) for Dragic (35) + Achiuwa (21) then swapped Dragic for Thad (33) while sliding down a dozen spots from late 1st to early 2nd. Picked up Brooks (23) along the way and gave him some meaningful minutes while we were injured. Won 48 games with half of the active roster being newly acquired in the past ~12 months (GTJ, Achiuwa, Barnes, Banton, Svi, Brooks, Thad) and most of those players are in either their first or second season with actual NBA minutes.

How can you look at where Toronto was 2 or 3 seasons ago compared to now with a significantly younger and different roster yet still think "nope, Toronto isn't rebuilding because they kept a few players in their mid-20s and traded down 12 or 13 spots in the draft"?

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What does retooling mean in regards to GMing an NBA franchise?

[Tha Cynic]

The best way to judge what this season is by feel of the most invested fans. If your fans are relaxed and still happy with a season, that means you've done what you expected or more. If you're stressed and pissed at the end of the season about your team's play then your team failed in your eyes.

I think most Raptors fans can say this is the most relaxed they have felt in years.

[Tha Cynic]

My opinion of the 76ers is that I'm impressed by Embiid. I felt he acted like a big baby for years, but this year he looks like a different person in terms of maturity. He's ready for this team to win.

Maxey seems like one of the most likeable players in the league and he's going to be a stud.

I don't trust Harden at all.

I think Glen (Doc) Rivers is one of the most overrated coaches in the league. Well now everyone probably knows.

I also think the 76ers made the Nets a better team, but that was kind of negated by Simmons never playing.

I don't think the 76ers as a whole are good enough to get past the second round but I could be wrong. The Raptors and 76ers actually like each other in terms of the players. There are a lot of friendships there.

[SelfishPlayer]

My opinion of the 76ers is that I'm impressed by Embiid. I felt he acted like a big baby for years, but this year he looks like a different person in terms of maturity. He's ready for this team to win.

Maxey seems like one of the most likeable players in the league and he's going to be a stud.

I don't trust Harden at all.

I think Glen (Doc) Rivers is one of the most overrated coaches in the league. Well now everyone probably knows.

I also think the 76ers made the Nets a better team, but that was kind of negated by Simmons never playing.

The Lakers would have made the playoffs every season during the LeBron era if Doc were the head coach.

[Tha Cynic]

My opinion of the 76ers is that I'm impressed by Embiid. I felt he acted like a big baby for years, but this year he looks like a different person in terms of maturity. He's ready for this team to win.

Maxey seems like one of the most likeable players in the league and he's going to be a stud.

I don't trust Harden at all.

I think Glen (Doc) Rivers is one of the most overrated coaches in the league. Well now everyone probably knows.

I also think the 76ers made the Nets a better team, but that was kind of negated by Simmons never playing.

The Lakers would have made the playoffs every season during the LeBron era if Doc were the head coach.

No way. James forced that team into making some terrible trades and acquisitions and then the expected injuries happened.

[MoMoneyMoProbs]

The Kawhi trade wasn't a strategy it was good fortune. Popovich is probably the only GM that would banish an All NBA player to Canada.

Ah so this was good fortune but the 76ers getting a disgruntled star get traded twice in less than a season isn't. Gotcha.

Harden went where he wanted to go, Popovich refused to do that for Kawhi and opted to banish him to Canada. Philadelphia offers desirability to NBA players that Canada can not.

I'd love to hear more about this desirability.

[bebopdeluxe]

If the 76ers get past the Raptors, the Philly fans will understand the difference in how the Raptors are reffed vs the Celtics or Heat as an example. You won't see Tatum get 3 no impact on play phantom calls take him out of any ability to defend. You won't see Embiid gett calls where the defenders get to their spots and simply go up straight. The Raptors are one of the best defensive teams in the league and have the coach who throws out the most schemes. It is definitely frustrating when one end of the floor is reffed differently than the other. Again, this round doesn't matter, but the fans will understand when the 76ers face another American darling team. If those fouls called in the Raptors were legit fouls, then each team would have numerous players foul out each game.

Tatum has a completely different game than Embiid. Why would he get the same calls?

I disagree that those were phantom calls. When you get to the line all the time, the 50/50 calls tend to go your way. Many of those calls that some fans pointed out were clear fouls.

You missed his point.

In this series, the calls are being made a certain way and in Cynic's eyes (and many others), it's because the Sixers are the media's pick to win, as they have the star clout that everyone buys into. If the Sixers play in future rounds against the Celtics or Nets - two teams that don't have the default "Toronto are the outsiders and don't deserve the same calls" thing going on - then the calls the Sixers are getting against the Raptors disappear when its Tatum or Durant getting the star treatment at the other end.

THAT is when you notice how good the whistle was for you in this round... though there is a chance the rest of the games aren't officiated as poorly as Game 1.

Are we STILL talking about the refs? Really?

[SelfishPlayer]

Ah so this was good fortune but the 76ers getting a disgruntled star get traded twice in less than a season isn't. Gotcha.

Harden went where he wanted to go, Popovich refused to do that for Kawhi and opted to banish him to Canada. Philadelphia offers desirability to NBA players that Canada can not.

I'd love to hear more about this desirability.

United States...

[JShuttlesworth]

Harden went where he wanted to go, Popovich refused to do that for Kawhi and opted to banish him to Canada. Philadelphia offers desirability to NBA players that Canada can not.

I'd love to hear more about this desirability.

United States...

AMMERICCCAAAAAA

....Good one.

[MoMoneyMoProbs]

Harden went where he wanted to go, Popovich refused to do that for Kawhi and opted to banish him to Canada. Philadelphia offers desirability to NBA players that Canada can not.

I'd love to hear more about this desirability.

United States...

Okay thanks. I just wanted clarification since you had stated that specifically the City of Brotherly Love offers more desirability than the county of Canada as a whole.

[SelfishPlayer]

I'd love to hear more about this desirability.

United States...

Okay thanks. I just wanted clarification since you had stated that specifically the City of Brotherly Love offers more desirability than the county of Canada as a whole.

Location location location...

[ken6199]

Spoiler:

Read on Twitter

Not sure why you posted this one here. I sort of see the motivation but I don't think it is well justified.

What I can tell you is if I was a raptors fan in the arena at that time I would be cheering too - as my first reaction. Not that I wish any injuries on a player but keep in mind this was game 5 of the finals with my team seeing its potentially first ever championship so if my opponent best player went down there was no way my first reaction would be like "geez is that a minor injury I think we should put health above everything I hope KD gets back up and continue to torture our defenders in game 6 and 7". No, you can bet my first reaction would be joy and relief. If KD don't come back our chances are looking much better!

However when those adrenalines are over and I realize that's one serious injury I am going to feel bad for him. I might even feel a bit guilty for that joy I had earlier. That's why fans in the arena were heard starting to clap and wish KD good health, which I believe were genuine. It was out of respect for a competitor who fought back from a calf injury in the same post season only to go down again in game 5.

I am never endorsing cheering injuries on a player. I just don't understand why people keep bringing out this video and hammering it as something utterly bad and inexcusable behavior. Worse, it often comes with a generalization label of "raptors fans" as if the entire fan base was doing this. Let's stop that.

Fair enough, point well taken. The same thing can be said about the Embiid crying meme too right?

Pointing fun at legitimate human emotion.

Isn't that what memes are made from? Aren't Lebron and MJ's crying memes used more often? Same with Embiid's which is mostly used as a banter with some occasional trolling here and there. It's like in every thread that involves Giannis Harden stuff people bring out the ball smacking meme to troll Harden - that doesn't bother me at all.

Hey Embiid is having an amazing season and hopefully a monster post season as well. Like you, I am pulling for the 76ers for obvious reasons but I wouldn't let those noise affect me.

[Black Mage]

Well, he's already way ahead of Embiid's progress at this stage of his career...Embiid played 0 games his first two seasons, lets compare 3rd year Barnes vs. 3rd year Embiid in a couple years, yeah?

Nice try. Barnes had a solid rookie year. Embiid led the league in scoring and will probably finish 2nd in the MVP in back to back seasons.

Let me know when Barnes even SNIFFS that level, and then we can talk. OK?

Were you expecting a rookie to do that? Why wouldn't we compare apples to apples? Lets see what they look like in their 3rd year, for each of them, yeah?

I'd be willing to bet Barnes 3rd year > Embiid's 3rd year...

Why? Embiid played 0 games, wasn't able to practice or even work out for the most part. How would comparing Barnes with 150+ games in the NBA be in any way relevant to Embiid at zero games?

[eyeatoma]

Not sure why you posted this one here. I sort of see the motivation but I don't think it is well justified.

What I can tell you is if I was a raptors fan in the arena at that time I would be cheering too - as my first reaction. Not that I wish any injuries on a player but keep in mind this was game 5 of the finals with my team seeing its potentially first ever championship so if my opponent best player went down there was no way my first reaction would be like "geez is that a minor injury I think we should put health above everything I hope KD gets back up and continue to torture our defenders in game 6 and 7". No, you can bet my first reaction would be joy and relief. If KD don't come back our chances are looking much better!

However when those adrenalines are over and I realize that's one serious injury I am going to feel bad for him. I might even feel a bit guilty for that joy I had earlier. That's why fans in the arena were heard starting to clap and wish KD good health, which I believe were genuine. It was out of respect for a competitor who fought back from a calf injury in the same post season only to go down again in game 5.

I am never endorsing cheering injuries on a player. I just don't understand why people keep bringing out this video and hammering it as something utterly bad and inexcusable behavior. Worse, it often comes with a generalization label of "raptors fans" as if the entire fan base was doing this. Let's stop that.

Fair enough, point well taken. The same thing can be said about the Embiid crying meme too right?

Pointing fun at legitimate human emotion.

Isn't that what memes are made from? Aren't Lebron and MJ's crying memes used more often? Same with Embiid's which is mostly used as a banter with some occasional trolling here and there. It's like in every thread that involves Giannis Harden stuff people bring out the ball smacking meme to troll Harden - that doesn't bother me at all.

Hey Embiid is having an amazing season and hopefully a monster post season as well. Like you, I am pulling for the 76ers for obvious reasons but I wouldn't let those noise affect me.

The Jordan crying meme, wasn't during one of the lowest moments of his career though. The Embiid crying meme is a way to be spiteful, because of salty fans not able being able to take a player celebrating after a windmill dunk in the playoffs. Embiid was showing immense vulnerability, something we should all admire. I see what you are getting at, but this is different.

The ball smacking meme is legitimately funny, and isn't showing a distraught Harden.

[Mikistan]

Fair enough, point well taken. The same thing can be said about the Embiid crying meme too right?

Pointing fun at legitimate human emotion.

Isn't that what memes are made from? Aren't Lebron and MJ's crying memes used more often? Same with Embiid's which is mostly used as a banter with some occasional trolling here and there. It's like in every thread that involves Giannis Harden stuff people bring out the ball smacking meme to troll Harden - that doesn't bother me at all.

Hey Embiid is having an amazing season and hopefully a monster post season as well. Like you, I am pulling for the 76ers for obvious reasons but I wouldn't let those noise affect me.

The Jordan crying meme, wasn't during one of the lowest moments of his career though. The Embiid crying meme is a way to be spiteful, because of salty fans not able being able to take a player celebrating after a windmill dunk in the playoffs. Embiid was showing immense vulnerability, something we should all admire. I see what you are getting at, but this is different.

The ball smacking meme is legitimately funny, and isn't showing a distraught Harden.

The lowest moment in his career was not losing in game 7 to the eventual champs...

[Black Mage]

Nothing. Just stirring up more drama when it has already been covered ad nauseum that 99% of Raptors fans were cheering a fast-break opportunity in a potential Championship-clinching game at home. One fan being an idiot and waving goodbye to Durant or ~100 fans cheering because Durant was injured doesn't speak for the whole fanbase.

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Did you listen to the video?

The video that started literally a second after Ibaka was fouled at the other end and awarded 2 free throws in a close game? Yes.

Wild how Philly fans think they're excused from cheering a promising rookie's injury because someone fouled out in a blowout in G1 of the first round, but Raptors fans are still being attacked for cheering during/after a fast-break in a potential Championship-clinching game.

Editing post b/c you actually said what I wrote, which is fans cheered b/c it was announced at same time that FVV was fouled out. Also for context, "Hit the Road Jack" is a standard PA soundbite played when opponent fouls out.

[BullyKing]

For the record, count me all the way out on talking crap about Canada. It's an awesome country and Toronto's an awesome city.

[eyeatoma]

Isn't that what memes are made from? Aren't Lebron and MJ's crying memes used more often? Same with Embiid's which is mostly used as a banter with some occasional trolling here and there. It's like in every thread that involves Giannis Harden stuff people bring out the ball smacking meme to troll Harden - that doesn't bother me at all.

Hey Embiid is having an amazing season and hopefully a monster post season as well. Like you, I am pulling for the 76ers for obvious reasons but I wouldn't let those noise affect me.

The Jordan crying meme, wasn't during one of the lowest moments of his career though. The Embiid crying meme is a way to be spiteful, because of salty fans not able being able to take a player celebrating after a windmill dunk in the playoffs. Embiid was showing immense vulnerability, something we should all admire. I see what you are getting at, but this is different.

The ball smacking meme is legitimately funny, and isn't showing a distraught Harden.

The lowest moment in his career was not losing in game 7 to the eventual champs...

Lol, I'd say that is the definition of lowest moment. Are you serious haha? To lose on a quadruple doink buzzerbeater in game 7? That's a high moment?