Westbrook Trades - Dream a Sweet Dream

[loveshaq786]

I know Donovan Mitchell and Rudy gobert don't see eye to eye .. what are the chances that Lakers can do it even swap for Anthony Davis and Rudy Gobert??

[Eric Bieniemy]

Caruso, I guess Jeanie wasn't as rich as everyone made her out to be since she was trying to dodge luxury tax left and right this season.

She was? Cause I see the Lakers being 4th or 5th in salary this season.....way over the cap. Maybe everyone who thought that Westbrook was gonna be this great thing, decided that it wasn't worth throwing like 20-25 mil away for a guy who prob wouldn't see much floor time. You gotta remember that the front office walked into this season thinking this was gonna be amazing. Not that Westbrook would go back to his old self, defense would crumble, the old players would essentially bring nothing to the table, and that AD would once again miss most of the season.

So $20+ mil (whatever the exact hit was gonna be) for a guy who played only 50 games last year, and gave you 6.5 points, and 3 boards and assists? Except for the Laker fans and their "cult hero" guys that come around ever 3-4 years.....that's considered a totally stupid contract.

I dunno....Alex missed half the season in Chicago. He's up to 7.5 points, 3 boards, and 4 assists. Playing almost 30 minutes, and shooting under 40% <--------------- and we rue the day we passed on this? I will admit he plays decent D, and worked pretty well with Lebron. But ok....if Westbrook was gonna eat all those minutes.....then does it even matter?

I remember everyone furious with D'antoni that he wouldn't play Devin Ebanks more. We released him that year, and he never played an NBA game again. Earl Clark was aonther one who had a couple good games with the Lakers, and then everyone wanted him to play all these minutes. Guy never once hit double digits in scoring. Not even close. We all remember Shannon Brown? Another Laker darling. He went to Phoenix and had his two best seasons.....10.5 points, and 3 rebounds, and under 2 assists. Trevor Ariza was another. I was guilty of this one. I thought he was a beast. He did have some big plays, but you go look at his stats, and thank your stars we didn't give him the contract that Houston did. The list goes on and on. Folks thought Jordan Farmar was legit. Smush Parker had his fans. I for one was furious that we let Zubac go. Go look at his stats....meh. Nice player at best. Same with Larry Nance Jr. He has his cult following who thought we gave away a potential all-star. Nope. Caruso is gone. Time for the Caruso crowd to get over it. He simply wasn't worth anything close to what we were gonna have to pay. I wish him the best, and I liked his story as much as the next fan. But he'll be one the hundreds of "oh yeah, I remember that guy" in 10 years. Like Nance. I liked Nance....but jesus, I'm not sure if he's even playing anymore. If he is....he's certainly not making any waves.

Although you fail to mention the importance of intangibles -- aspects of a player's game that stats don't accurately quantify -- I appreciate you stating a very unpopular that I find to be true ... the Caruso signing, or lack thereof, was a prudent move.

Was it a financial move? Of course it was, but a smart move within the context of going all-in with Westbrook (an extremely dumb move). Caruso was too expensive with Westbrook in tow. I agree with you.

Another thing you fail to mention is just how "easy" it was to find a "Caruso-replacement" in Austin Reaves. I'm not just saying that because he's a Caucasian with a sneaky good game. I'm saying it because Reaves was a dogged defender like Caruso who played his best with James.

Caruso will always be the better defender. He just has more pedigree, playing good defense since college. Whereas Reaves is just now making defense a priority.

Caruso's the better defender, but Reaves is better offesively by leaps and bounds. Reaves can go get a bucket. He's shifty and has a pedigree for getting his own shot.

Many players are simply replaceable. Caruso isn't immune. I've made the exact same argument here for Monk.

[tamaraw08]

Who is a good fit next to LeBron and AD? Serious question...

Hate to say it, but PG would be a great fit. A good wing defender who can shoot from outside. Another one would be Klay. Both guys are good fits with alot of people/teams....but that type of guy would allow Lebron to camp down defensively, and take that load off. And someone who could catch & shoot would be great. Followed with the ability to do a little ball-handling / play making when Lebron was off the floor.

Next level down would a guy like Derosen...or really anyone like KCP....with just a little more consistency on his shot. What Lebron needs nowadays are defensive guys who can shoot. AD and Lebron can do the damage inside.

For that reason, I'm not so high on Randle. You could argue that we keep Lebron outside, and have Randle and AD down low. I think that it ends up getting clogged up....but I'm willing to listen. Now with that being said....I think we can safely assume 30 missed games by AD. So having Randle with just Lebron would be great. He would essentially be a poor mans AD. <-----THAT I see value in. But come playoffs, with everyone healthy (in theory), I think those 3 become an issue as far as spreading the D out. If our other two players were Steph and Klay...then ok. But otherwise, I think we become a great 90's team.

Now that said.....YES I take Randle back for Westbrook. No question. When I say it won't work....I think it wont be great. Not that it would necessarily be 'bad'. But with Randle's long long LONG - ass contract, I'd like to run this by Lebron and get him to agree to sign the extension first. AD and Randle would not be a good pairing by themselves. Not at all

The question is Do the Knicks FO hate the idea of keeping Randle as much as the Lakers FO' idea of keeping Westbrook?
Why would the Knicks hate to keep a hard working players who barely miss games for them? Have we seen him play lately? does it matter? Let's look at the facts and SET ASIDE OUR BIASED and SUBJECTIVE opinions of his play.
For last season, Julius had his worst % of his career at 41.1% (not counting his 14 mins he played for 1 rookie game). 41.1%!! 1246 total attempts and he just made 512 shots in 2544 minutes. He lead his team in attempts but just 11th in FG% and 17th in EFG%, 18th in ORTG,
And even though he was already struggling to make shots around the basket, he actually had the guts to take 5.4 attempts from beyond 24 feet and just made 1.7/game out of it.
He also lead his team in turnovers, 16TH IN TS%, 12TH IN DBPM.
Having stated all these horrible stats, I am NOT SAYING he will continue this putrid numbers with the Lakers and it sure is scary indeed esp with his long contract. I say, Julius should be the last option. I would rather re-visit that Wall, Wood proposed trade, or that Brogdon/Hield . No way i'll take Hayward without Rozier.

[TylersLakers]

Traiding Westbrook for rozier and Hayward... Better not be for any pics.

I'm down to do a three-way.

Westbrook and Anthony Davis for rozier, smart, brown, horford

Boston gets Hayward, Anthony Davis for jaylen brown, Marcus Smart and Horford

If we trade AD, we have to look at Boston.

Honestly.. Smart, Horford, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, and 2 1st rounders for AD and THT sounds like a fantastic deal to me for both sides.

Celtics would still have Tatum, Brown, AD, White. Pretty damn good 4 options.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

You nullify injury concerns by building a well-balanced roster with depth, employing platoons.

I'd trade Westbrook and 2 FRPs for Brogdon, Hield, and Bitadze then send Hield to New Orleans for Nance (another guy with an injury history) and Devonte Graham (not quite the shooter that Hield is but a much better defender, particularly of PGs at the point of attack, something this team sorely lacks).

Finally, I'd snag Otto Porter Jr. (yet another guy with an injury history) for the tax-MLE.

These moves leave the team platooning at least two deep 1-5, and alleviates the injury fear by reducing everyone's minutes signicantly (think those old Pacers teams coached by Larry Bird that ran five guys off the bench all getting signicant minutes):

PG - James - Tucker
SG - Graham - Nunn
C - Davis - Bitadze
PF - Nance - Porter
SF - Brogdon - Reaves

You don't make moves or not make moves because you're afraid of guys getting hurt. You study their history and ask yourself if they are healthy right now. If it all checks out, you pull the trigger, build the team with proper chemistry and stress depth, which is done above.

Speaking of those old Pacer teams coached by Larry Bird (the third best player I've ever witnessed since 1986, by the way), his PG platoon was Travis Best at backup PG behind Mark Jackson as the starter.

Mark Jackson should coach this team (bad attempt at a segue). He's not the only one for the job. That'd be silly to suggest, but he checks all the boxes for me. He's shown that he can galvanize and lead, and he's shown he can inspire his team to play good defense with spirit and intensity.

Build this team right, with balance and depth -- fear of injury be damned -- and hire an inspirational voice in the locker roomn and this team will be back in the mix right away.

[zimpy27]

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

You nullify injury concerns by building a well-balanced roster with depth, employing platoons.

I'd trade Westbrook and 2 FRPs for Brogdon, Hield, and Bitadze then send Hield to New Orleans for Nance (another guy with an injury history) and Devonte Graham (not quite the shooter that Hield is but a much better defender, particularly of PGs at the point of attack, something this team sorely lacks).

Finally, I'd snag Otto Porter Jr. (yet another guy with an injury history) for the tax-MLE.

These moves leave the team platooning at least two deep 1-5, and alleviates the injury fear by reducing everyone's minutes signicantly (think those old Pacers teams coached by Larry Bird that ran five guys off the bench all getting signicant minutes):

PG - James - Tucker
SG - Graham - Nunn
C - Davis - Bitadze
PF - Nance - Porter
SF - Brogdon - Reaves

You don't make moves or not make moves because you're afraid of guys getting hurt. You study their history and ask yourself if they are healthy right now. If it all checks out, you pull the trigger, build the team with proper chemistry and stress depth, which is done above.

Speaking of those old Pacer teams coached by Larry Bird (the third best player I've ever witnessed since 1986, by the way), his PG platoon was Travis Best at backup PG behind Mark Jackson as the starter.

Mark Jackson should coach this team (bad attempt at a segue). He's not the only one for the job. That'd be silly to suggest, but he checks all the boxes for me. He's shown that he can galvanize and lead, and he's shown he can inspire his team to play good defense with spirit and intensity.

Build this team right, with balance and depth -- fear of injury be damned -- and hire an inspirational voice in the locker roomn and this team will be back in the mix right away.

Pretty much what I'd be doing.

I'd take the Knicks package without picks and then use the smaller contracts packaged with picks to bring back players.
Though I highly doubt that Pelicans do anything to help Lakers so you would probably rule them out.

Westbrook for Fournier, Burks, Kemba, Taj
Saves money so that you can bring back Monk with TaxMLE and be as expensive as last year (which seemed like the FO spending max)

Then you attach FRPs, SRPs and swaps to these players for reliable role players.

Kemba+Taj+FRP+swap for Melton+Tillman
Fournier+FRP for upgraded SF/PF like Jerami Grant

Melton, Monk, Grant, LeBron, Davis -- Nunn, Burks, Reaves, THT, Tillman -- Augustin, SJ, Gabriel, Howard
Gives you a spot for one SG rookie as an undrafted rookie.

[One Love]

Lakers are WAIVING Westbrook...

Lakers are NOT taking back ANY bad deals (Hayward, Rozier or Bogdon)...

Team is already better by subtraction...

[danfantastk32]

Lakers are WAIVING Westbrook...

Lakers are NOT taking back ANY bad deals (Hayward, Rozier or Bogdon)...

Team is already better by subtraction...

If this is true, I'm fine with it.

[danfantastk32]

Although you fail to mention the importance of intangibles -- aspects of a player's game that stats don't accurately quantify -- I appreciate you stating a very unpopular that I find to be true ... the Caruso signing, or lack thereof, was a prudent move.

I'm not a huge 'intangibles' guy.....I typically reserve that kinda stuff for elevating A+ players to Elite level. Stuff that separates the real cream....Jordan and Kobe's grit. Garnett as well. The way Rodman played just crazy good defense for his size, and could get into everyone's head...all the while being the best rebounder in the game. That's intangibles to me. Unless your bringing something really special to the floor on a nightly basis.....you need to be scoring, rebounding, assisting. Otherwise, yeah....like you said: Replaceable. Shane Battier hung his hat on being a really good defender. Caruso ain't no Battier. Caruso is hardly a fantastic defender. He's good, and he tries. Great. But he's not the steals leader, so we need production in the form of points, rebounds, assists.

Shannon Brown could light up the crowd, as could Nance. I thought Nance was a decent defender at times too. Almost all these guys could bring something to the table. Just not at a high level, and with damn little consistency. Caruso was a fighter. He's scraping and clawing for his foothold in the NBA. I dug the guy. I wish he was still a Laker. But it's also time to move on from the "what coulda been" with Caruso. He's an extremely limited bench/role player. Let's stop romanticizing. I think you and I are pretty much on the same page with Caruso.

The reason I didn't bring up Reeves, is that after about game 6 this season, I saw this team was gonna spiral down the toilet. I already TOTALLY didn't want Westbrook. And Melo is prob my least fave player in the NBA (Westbrook not far behind). So I really wasn't into this squad from the get-go. And after watching them suck for half a dozen games, I pretty much only watched games when I was out somewhere, and it was on....and that was usually only half-watching, and only part of a game. I'm very glad I did that. As much as I love me some Lakers.....I was ok pretending this year didn't exist. Russ, and Melo can move on, and I'll have very little memories of it actually having happened.

Sorry....long way of saying: I didn't really watch too much of Reeves. So while I agree with you, I didn't feel like I knew enough to make that statement. I wish Caruso the best. Glad he got a nice little contract there. If he's half-smart, he's set for life. Good for him.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Lakers are WAIVING Westbrook...

Lakers are NOT taking back ANY bad deals (Hayward, Rozier or Bogdon)...

Team is already better by subtraction...

Or just send him home in lieu of a deal.

[loveshaq786]

Lakers are WAIVING Westbrook...

Lakers are NOT taking back ANY bad deals (Hayward, Rozier or Bogdon)...

Team is already better by subtraction...

Or just send him home in lieu of a deal.

You can't just waive him, you can buy him out, or stretch his deal out

[Eric Bieniemy]

Lakers are WAIVING Westbrook...

Lakers are NOT taking back ANY bad deals (Hayward, Rozier or Bogdon)...

Team is already better by subtraction...

Or just send him home in lieu of a deal.

You can't just waive him, you can buy him out, or stretch his deal out

Right, or pay him to sit at home until a deal arises. That's the option I was referring to.

[danfantastk32]

Or just send him home in lieu of a deal.

You can't just waive him, you can buy him out, or stretch his deal out

Right, or pay him to sit at home until a deal arises. That's the option I was referring to.

Isn't that what they're essentially doing with Wall? I'm totally cool with that.

Plan A: We find a trade where we take back some mediocre stuff. Couple guys on 2-3 year deals who are decent, but overpaid. Or perhaps an overpaid guy on a 3-year deal...but then we get a semi-promising younger guy as well. Something like that.

Plan B: Westbrook agrees to a buyout, and the Lakers save 10-ish mil. Westbrook will find someone willing to sign him on a one year $10-15 mil deal. He's got stats and sells jerseys. There will be someone. We'd get out of some luxury tax, and call it a day.

Plan C: He just sits his ass at home. He'll earn his $45ish mil, and then we part ways next offseason.

What we 1000% don't want to do is stretch this contract, and have $15 mill sitting over us for 3 years. Just deal with the contract, and make it through the year. Lebron can go for Kareem's record. Keep Davis out at much as possible, and give the guy like a year and a half to get fully and properly healed. Go get what limited pieces you can, and try not to embarrass yourselves again. I think Lebron and a decent cast can make the playoffs. And there will be Davis.....just really limited.

Get Davis' stock back up. Because you'll want to try and attract a new star in 2 years in the event that Lebron walks. OR...if we want, we can trade Davis (who's looking much better these days....) and begin the full rebuild.

That's what I'd do. If plan A happens....then I guess we reload best we can,and try this again. If its B or C....then scrap this year, and get Davis looking good and shiny again. Lebron chasing Kareem....and the team fighting for (and hopefully making) the 6th-7th spot should keep most everyone involved for the year. Low standards, for sure....but I think this is our best realistic option

[Eric Bieniemy]

I would've sent him home this year. Addition by subtraction. They probably make the playoffs with Westbrook at home on the couch.

[Ball so hard]

Context matters...

We're talking a trade for Westbrook here... Randle clearly has the most upside of any of the players mentioned in a Westbrook trade... He's the most talented player remotely available...

It's a risk for sure, but beggars can't be choosers...

Brogdon's defense is getting fairly over-rated here...

I think I'd still do the Hayward/Rozier trade as the best fit, but, if the options are Brogdon/Heild or Randle/Fornier/RJ/IQ/2nd... I think you do the NY trade every time.

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

This approach is as likely as the one you favor to keep us in the "mess" we're currently in. Would put your money on Lebron and AD staying healthy? As the saying goes, hope is not a strategy.

[SK21209]

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

This approach is as likely as the one you favor to keep us in the "mess" we're currently in. Would put your money on Lebron and AD staying healthy? As the saying goes, hope is not a strategy.

No, but its our only bet that can hit. A supporting cast of Burks, Fournier, and other mediocre to below average role players is not winning a championship even if they play all 82 games and winning a championship is all that matters if LeBron and AD are on the team. The front office was correct in their assessment last offseason that the we needed more perimeter creation outside of LeBron, Russ was just the wrong choice to accomplish that. Basically, the 2020 blueprint isn't good enough anymore. The rest of the league has improved, we won't be able to replicate that roster from a defensive standpoint in one offseason and, most importantly, I don't think LeBron can be our full time point guard every night anymore.

What we need is a roster that, if we catch a lot of breaks and things fall our way, is capable of winning a championship. That's all we can ask for at this point given how badly we've mismanaged the roster over the last two years. So yes, we need to take fliers on guys like Brogdon or Hayward who have plenty of problems staying healthy, but if they are on the court we actually have a team with enough talent to contend.

[Ball so hard]

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

This approach is as likely as the one you favor to keep us in the "mess" we're currently in. Would put your money on Lebron and AD staying healthy? As the saying goes, hope is not a strategy.

No, but its our only bet that can hit. A supporting cast of Burks, Fournier, and other mediocre to below average role players is not winning a championship even if they play all 82 games and winning a championship is all that matters if LeBron and AD are on the team. The front office was correct in their assessment last offseason that the we needed more perimeter creation outside of LeBron, Russ was just the wrong choice to accomplish that. Basically, the 2020 blueprint isn't good enough anymore. The rest of the league has improved, we won't be able to replicate that roster from a defensive standpoint in one offseason and, most importantly, I don't think LeBron can be our full time point guard every night anymore.

What we need is a roster that, if we catch a lot of breaks and things fall our way, is capable of winning a championship. That's all we can ask for at this point given how badly we've mismanaged the roster over the last two years. So yes, we need to take fliers on guys like Brogdon or Hayward who have plenty of problems staying healthy, but if they are on the court we actually have a team with enough talent to contend.

Don't agree with your approach, but I do understand your reasoning.

[zimpy27]

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

This approach is as likely as the one you favor to keep us in the "mess" we're currently in. Would put your money on Lebron and AD staying healthy? As the saying goes, hope is not a strategy.

No, but its our only bet that can hit. A supporting cast of Burks, Fournier, and other mediocre to below average role players is not winning a championship even if they play all 82 games and winning a championship is all that matters if LeBron and AD are on the team. The front office was correct in their assessment last offseason that the we needed more perimeter creation outside of LeBron, Russ was just the wrong choice to accomplish that. Basically, the 2020 blueprint isn't good enough anymore. The rest of the league has improved, we won't be able to replicate that roster from a defensive standpoint in one offseason and, most importantly, I don't think LeBron can be our full time point guard every night anymore.

What we need is a roster that, if we catch a lot of breaks and things fall our way, is capable of winning a championship. That's all we can ask for at this point given how badly we've mismanaged the roster over the last two years. So yes, we need to take fliers on guys like Brogdon or Hayward who have plenty of problems staying healthy, but if they are on the court we actually have a team with enough talent to contend.

This is the reasoning that had Lakers go from a championship team to this season. Feverishly trying to upgrade because of the fear that other teams got better. Running away from what made you great.

Never have we seen a GM make more moves after a championship than we saw Pelinka make.

The 2020 blueprint is the best go by. Lebron's entire career has been about people thinking spacing was key. It's not. His best 2-man lineups have always been with defensive, hustling, high IQ guards (they don't even need to be particularly talented in shooting).

There is a simple truth with building around LeBron. You don't build the team to make his scoring easier, he's already great at that. You want to give him players that make his job on defense easier and he'll make their job on offense easier.

Yes Lakers need another playmaker like Rondo on the 2020 championship run. He brought defense and playmaking in game that was complex and multi-layered. Then the rest of the team needs to be hustle/defense first.

[TylersLakers]

Yeah if Lakers don't want Hayward then they won't want Brogdon because of injuries..

I think the best trade is Westbrook for Fournier+Burks+Kemba+Taj with no picks going either way.

Then Lakers trade Kemba+Taj with picks for other pieces. I think Burks+Fournier are good fits alone.

If Knicks want to give Randle over Burks+Kemba+Taj then they got to give an FRP.

Passing on the Hayward/Rozier or Brogdon/Hield trades for that Knicks trade because of injury concerns on Hayward and Brogdon would be a colossal mistake. This team is lead by a 37 year old LeBron James and an injury-prone Anthony Davis, there is no escaping injury concerns. We need to build a team with the highest possible ceiling and just pray that LeBron, AD and whomever are able to stay healthy. If LeBron or AD get hurt, we're **** anyway. That Knicks trade to bring in role players is exactly the kind of "floor-raising" thinking that got us in this mess in the first place.

You nullify injury concerns by building a well-balanced roster with depth, employing platoons.

I'd trade Westbrook and 2 FRPs for Brogdon, Hield, and Bitadze then send Hield to New Orleans for Nance (another guy with an injury history) and Devonte Graham (not quite the shooter that Hield is but a much better defender, particularly of PGs at the point of attack, something this team sorely lacks).

Finally, I'd snag Otto Porter Jr. (yet another guy with an injury history) for the tax-MLE.

These moves leave the team platooning at least two deep 1-5, and alleviates the injury fear by reducing everyone's minutes signicantly (think those old Pacers teams coached by Larry Bird that ran five guys off the bench all getting signicant minutes):

PG - James - Tucker
SG - Graham - Nunn
C - Davis - Bitadze
PF - Nance - Porter
SF - Brogdon - Reaves

You don't make moves or not make moves because you're afraid of guys getting hurt. You study their history and ask yourself if they are healthy right now. If it all checks out, you pull the trigger, build the team with proper chemistry and stress depth, which is done above.

Speaking of those old Pacer teams coached by Larry Bird (the third best player I've ever witnessed since 1986, by the way), his PG platoon was Travis Best at backup PG behind Mark Jackson as the starter.

Mark Jackson should coach this team (bad attempt at a segue). He's not the only one for the job. That'd be silly to suggest, but he checks all the boxes for me. He's shown that he can galvanize and lead, and he's shown he can inspire his team to play good defense with spirit and intensity.

Build this team right, with balance and depth -- fear of injury be damned -- and hire an inspirational voice in the locker roomn and this team will be back in the mix right away.

I actually really like this team. Nance is a legit playoff contributor, exactly what I've always thought.

I still have a hard time believing that Indiana doesn't have better options for Hield and/or Brogdon trades. We'll see what happens.

[loveshaq786]

Anthony Davis and nunn for PG Tucker and Jimmy Butler....

If Jimmy wants out