Jalen Brunson obsession

[G_K_F]

IQ ended the season with 34 points, 12 assists and 10 rebounds and makes 2.2 million a year. Oh and our 2 best players were out. I'm good with the guy we got!

So last game of the season > playoffs is what you’re saying. Good stuff.

Let’s be real here - Brunson came into the league as an efficient. He’s a consistent and efficient offensive guard - 2 things Quickley will never be. And I like Quickley.

according to the almighty TS% stat for efficiency, quickley and Jalen are about even for their first 2 seasons. And that’s with Jalen playing next to a All time great in the making

Well I guess that tells you all you need to know about the effectiveness of the TS% statistic.

[thebuzzardman]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

[Jimmit79]

I was wondering if someone can explain to me our obsession with Jalen Brunson. Bruson is a good PG but is he that good that he takes us to the promised land? I'm starting to feel like we are setting ourselves up to overpay another 2nd or 3rd option. Jaden Ivey on the other hand seems like a cornerstone piece to build around. Shouldn't our goal be to get him at all costs.

Does this explain it?

Watch on YouTube

IQ ended the season with 34 points, 12 assists and 10 rebounds and makes 2.2 million a year. Oh and our 2 best players were out. I'm good with the guy we got!

It's because those two chuckers were out that IQ had freedom to play at his best.

[-YogiBiz-]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

I’ll honestly take anything at this point.

But we gonna be real mad if Jalen Brunson really is Mo Williams 2.0

[DOT]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

I think the question of "Is Brunson worth the 25 mil plus assets we'd have to trade for him" is a good one. Personally, I think he is worth that contract, but what we'd need to sign and trade for him could go either way, I'd need to see it first

But the question of "Is Brunson an upgrade over what we have" is a ridiculous one, because of course he is.

[thebuzzardman]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

I think the question of "Is Brunson worth the 25 mil plus assets we'd have to trade for him" is a good one. Personally, I think he is worth that contract, but what we'd need to sign and trade for him could go either way, I'd need to see it first

But the question of "Is Brunson an upgrade over what we have" is a ridiculous one, because of course he is.

I was pretty strongly pro Brunson and still am, in terms of who is he is as a player.
But it matters what he price will be per year - the ol Donnie Walsh "A player is good at one price and not at another", but also, as you state, IF the Knicks can get him, what it will cost.
Again, BXetcetc is better at this, but any S&T with the Mavs will be kind of unbalanced so Knicks are going to have to put several players in it to make the money match - it's not as simple as "Pay Mitch 16, add Burks at 10, trade for Brunson".

Since the Mavs don't want to get screwed, have playoff ambitions, it would have to be "worth it", so there's at least one pick going.
We'd have to take back a bad contract like Bertrans. Probably send Fournier.

And yeah, I see people saying "Wait, we get rid of Burks and Fournier and Mitch and get Brunson? Sign me up", but that's starting to get into the "is it worth it?" territory, and it could be worse.

[Meat]

I was wondering if someone can explain to me our obsession with Jalen Brunson. Bruson is a good PG but is he that good that he takes us to the promised land? I'm starting to feel like we are setting ourselves up to overpay another 2nd or 3rd option. Jaden Ivey on the other hand seems like a cornerstone piece to build around. Shouldn't our goal be to get him at all costs.

Does this explain it?

Watch on YouTube

IQ ended the season with 34 points, 12 assists and 10 rebounds and makes 2.2 million a year. Oh and our 2 best players were out. I'm good with the guy we got!

Did you just reference the 82nd game of the season as if it was more than a picky up game?

[RHODEY]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

I think the question of "Is Brunson worth the 25 mil plus assets we'd have to trade for him" is a good one. Personally, I think he is worth that contract, but what we'd need to sign and trade for him could go either way, I'd need to see it first

But the question of "Is Brunson an upgrade over what we have" is a ridiculous one, because of course he is.

I was pretty strongly pro Brunson and still am, in terms of who is he is as a player.
But it matters what he price will be per year - the ol Donnie Walsh "A player is good at one price and not at another", but also, as you state, IF the Knicks can get him, what it will cost.
Again, BXetcetc is better at this, but any S&T with the Mavs will be kind of unbalanced so Knicks are going to have to put several players in it to make the money match - it's not as simple as "Pay Mitch 16, add Burks at 10, trade for Brunson".

Since the Mavs don't want to get screwed, have playoff ambitions, it would have to be "worth it", so there's at least one pick going.
We'd have to take back a bad contract like Bertrans. Probably send Fournier.

And yeah, I see people saying "Wait, we get rid of Burks and Fournier and Mitch and get Brunson? Sign me up", but that's starting to get into the "is it worth it?" territory, and it could be worse.

How about to you just move Randle...?

[thebuzzardman]

I think the question of "Is Brunson worth the 25 mil plus assets we'd have to trade for him" is a good one. Personally, I think he is worth that contract, but what we'd need to sign and trade for him could go either way, I'd need to see it first

But the question of "Is Brunson an upgrade over what we have" is a ridiculous one, because of course he is.

I was pretty strongly pro Brunson and still am, in terms of who is he is as a player.
But it matters what he price will be per year - the ol Donnie Walsh "A player is good at one price and not at another", but also, as you state, IF the Knicks can get him, what it will cost.
Again, BXetcetc is better at this, but any S&T with the Mavs will be kind of unbalanced so Knicks are going to have to put several players in it to make the money match - it's not as simple as "Pay Mitch 16, add Burks at 10, trade for Brunson".

Since the Mavs don't want to get screwed, have playoff ambitions, it would have to be "worth it", so there's at least one pick going.
We'd have to take back a bad contract like Bertrans. Probably send Fournier.

And yeah, I see people saying "Wait, we get rid of Burks and Fournier and Mitch and get Brunson? Sign me up", but that's starting to get into the "is it worth it?" territory, and it could be worse.

How about to you just move Randle...?

Again, I'll defer to BXetcetc on this, but I don't think it works as simply as that.

Randle would be the salary that mostly matches Brunson, but when teams over the cap trade, there's an imbalance for the team with incoming and outgoing and same on the other side. Still would have to be expanded.

I'm not sure Dallas wants to pair Randle with Luka. But hey, to quote Isiah Thomas on putting two ball dominant players together "So crazy it might work!"

[DOT]

I'm not sure Dallas wants to pair Randle with Luka."

That's the problem with all these Randle deals

I don't think a lot of teams are looking at him as someone they want to pair up with their guy

Especially not Cuban, he has a, let's say, type of player he likes

You have to convince who we're trading him to that they can get 2021 Randle out of him again, which some will take a risk on, depending on how desperate they are.

[j4remi]

Knick fans: This team sucks
Knick fans when any attempt to upgrade the team is brought up: That guy isn't good enough for the Knicks.

I think the question of "Is Brunson worth the 25 mil plus assets we'd have to trade for him" is a good one. Personally, I think he is worth that contract, but what we'd need to sign and trade for him could go either way, I'd need to see it first

But the question of "Is Brunson an upgrade over what we have" is a ridiculous one, because of course he is.

Yeah, I'm in this boat. I think Brunson's an obvious upgrade and also brings a certain on-court mentality that this team could really use (he brings a certain poise where he can step up when Luka starts to go off the rails and throw fits).

I also think 20 million starting is fine for a player of his caliber. It might become another Fournier thing though (slow start becomes justification to trash the contract even as the player begins validating the price tag later).

I think IQ's late emergence does change the equation a bit. If you project IQ to continue his growth curve, then he'll be a starting-caliber PG soon enough. Tyus Jones as competition for the slot and a guaranteed quality back-up wouldn't be a bad alternative (assuming Jones takes another back-up value contract)...That also ties into my all cheapskate off-season gameplan (dump as many vets as possible, especially Randle. Sign Tyus Jones and Jalen Smith on cheap multi-year deals, luck into Mathurin at 11 and go forward with all the young guys + captain Taj Gibson).

[Esq-4]

On paper, it is one of the places that makes sense to move Randle to add to the back court.

[TheGreenArrow]

On paper, it is one of the places that makes sense to move Randle to add to the back court.

Yep and berman mentioned it’s one of Julius’s preferred destinations if dealt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Zenzibar]

I am soooo happy Brunson had a great game. That way Dallas has no choice but sign him and takes off our radar.

[HarthorneWingo]

Does this explain it?

Watch on YouTube

IQ ended the season with 34 points, 12 assists and 10 rebounds and makes 2.2 million a year. Oh and our 2 best players were out. I'm good with the guy we got!

Did you just reference the 82nd game of the season as if it was more than a picky up game?

That doesn’t mean that sticking with IQ is the better move for us.

[HarthorneWingo]

I am soooo happy Brunson had a great game. That way Dallas has no choice but sign him and takes off our radar.

The Pacers are allegedly interested in Brunson which is wild bc Haliburton played lights out for them since the trade.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/266605/Pacers-May-Target-Jalen-Brunson-In-Free-Agency

[thebuzzardman]

I'm not sure Dallas wants to pair Randle with Luka."

That's the problem with all these Randle deals

I don't think a lot of teams are looking at him as someone they want to pair up with their guy

Especially not Cuban, he has a, let's say, type of player he likes

You have to convince who we're trading him to that they can get 2021 Randle out of him again, which some will take a risk on, depending on how desperate they are.

Another reason I don't include Randle in Brunson trades is that I think the team is committed to him, for now, like it or not.

Knicks give Randle the extension. Randle plays some financial ball with the team buy taking less so there is some flexibility.
Randle starts to stink up the joint and pout, Thibs never reduces his minutes until the VERY end of the season, where it seems like Knicks want to get a longer look at Obi
Randle pouts, gets into it with fans, Knicks not only tolerate this behavior but put up some fine money and support him.
Knicks CAA and Kentucky connections
And so on.

I think the Knicks give it a shot with Randle plus a legit upgrade at PG somehow and maybe even a stretch 5/better C.

Gut feeling, and it's not based on strongly liking Brunson or hating Mitch, but feels like the Knicks do some version of the following:

Mitch plus parts for Brunson plus parts (Mavs parts are Bertrans and whatever else, Knick parts are grab bag choice of Fournier/Burks/Walker, a pick, not sure if Mavs need "a youth" to do the deal

Knicks trade for Turner
Knicks draft non offensively limited C capable of hitting a jumper, picking and popping as well as rolling, instead of just a roll man.

I'm not advocating these trades, even though I did briefly stan for idea of Turner. Nor do I think they make the Knicks that great.
I think these are the beginning moves.

Knicks still then hold some assets and Randle as the basis for Zion if it ever happens where Zion becomes first guy not to pick up the qualifying offer etc etc.

[DOT]

I'm not sure Dallas wants to pair Randle with Luka."

That's the problem with all these Randle deals

I don't think a lot of teams are looking at him as someone they want to pair up with their guy

Especially not Cuban, he has a, let's say, type of player he likes

You have to convince who we're trading him to that they can get 2021 Randle out of him again, which some will take a risk on, depending on how desperate they are.

Another reason I don't include Randle in Brunson trades is that I think the team is committed to him, for now, like it or not.

Knicks give Randle the extension. Randle plays some financial ball with the team buy taking less so there is some flexibility.
Randle starts to stink up the joint and pout, Thibs never reduces his minutes until the VERY end of the season, where it seems like Knicks want to get a longer look at Obi
Randle pouts, gets into it with fans, Knicks not only tolerate this behavior but put up some fine money and support him.
Knicks CAA and Kentucky connections
And so on.

I think the Knicks give it a shot with Randle plus a legit upgrade at PG somehow and maybe even a stretch 5/better C.

Gut feeling, and it's not based on strongly liking Brunson or hating Mitch, but feels like the Knicks do some version of the following:

Mitch plus parts for Brunson plus parts (Mavs parts are Bertrans and whatever else, Knick parts are grab bag choice of Fournier/Burks/Walker, a pick, not sure if Mavs need "a youth" to do the deal

Knicks trade for Turner
Knicks draft non offensively limited C capable of hitting a jumper, picking and popping as well as rolling, instead of just a roll man.

I'm not advocating these trades, even though I did briefly stan for idea of Turner. Nor do I think they make the Knicks that great.
I think these are the beginning moves.

Knicks still then hold some assets and Randle as the basis for Zion if it ever happens where Zion becomes first guy not to pick up the qualifying offer etc etc.

I think it's equally likely or even more likely we can't make any moves cause no one wants our overpaid vets, so we end up just letting Mitch walk and drafting his replacement at 12, then run it back with the same group

Burks/Rose
Fournier/Quick
RJ/Grimes
Randle/Obi
Noel/12th pick

Then when we end with 34 wins, blame everything on Thibs, fire him, and chase a star in 2023.

[cgmw]

I'm not sure Dallas wants to pair Randle with Luka."

That's the problem with all these Randle deals

I don't think a lot of teams are looking at him as someone they want to pair up with their guy

Especially not Cuban, he has a, let's say, type of player he likes

You have to convince who we're trading him to that they can get 2021 Randle out of him again, which some will take a risk on, depending on how desperate they are.

Another reason I don't include Randle in Brunson trades is that I think the team is committed to him, for now, like it or not.

Knicks give Randle the extension. Randle plays some financial ball with the team buy taking less so there is some flexibility.
Randle starts to stink up the joint and pout, Thibs never reduces his minutes until the VERY end of the season, where it seems like Knicks want to get a longer look at Obi
Randle pouts, gets into it with fans, Knicks not only tolerate this behavior but put up some fine money and support him.
Knicks CAA and Kentucky connections
And so on.

I think the Knicks give it a shot with Randle plus a legit upgrade at PG somehow and maybe even a stretch 5/better C.

Gut feeling, and it's not based on strongly liking Brunson or hating Mitch, but feels like the Knicks do some version of the following:

Mitch plus parts for Brunson plus parts (Mavs parts are Bertrans and whatever else, Knick parts are grab bag choice of Fournier/Burks/Walker, a pick, not sure if Mavs need "a youth" to do the deal

Knicks trade for Turner
Knicks draft non offensively limited C capable of hitting a jumper, picking and popping as well as rolling, instead of just a roll man.

I'm not advocating these trades, even though I did briefly stan for idea of Turner. Nor do I think they make the Knicks that great.
I think these are the beginning moves.

Knicks still then hold some assets and Randle as the basis for Zion if it ever happens where Zion becomes first guy not to pick up the qualifying offer etc etc.

Turner
Randle
Burks
Donovan
Brunson

We’d have to trade every other FRP til 2030, but Steve Mills’ Board of Directors Knicks would do it. Especially if we can pickup Andre Drummond too.

[thebuzzardman]

That's the problem with all these Randle deals

I don't think a lot of teams are looking at him as someone they want to pair up with their guy

Especially not Cuban, he has a, let's say, type of player he likes

You have to convince who we're trading him to that they can get 2021 Randle out of him again, which some will take a risk on, depending on how desperate they are.

Another reason I don't include Randle in Brunson trades is that I think the team is committed to him, for now, like it or not.

Knicks give Randle the extension. Randle plays some financial ball with the team buy taking less so there is some flexibility.
Randle starts to stink up the joint and pout, Thibs never reduces his minutes until the VERY end of the season, where it seems like Knicks want to get a longer look at Obi
Randle pouts, gets into it with fans, Knicks not only tolerate this behavior but put up some fine money and support him.
Knicks CAA and Kentucky connections
And so on.

I think the Knicks give it a shot with Randle plus a legit upgrade at PG somehow and maybe even a stretch 5/better C.

Gut feeling, and it's not based on strongly liking Brunson or hating Mitch, but feels like the Knicks do some version of the following:

Mitch plus parts for Brunson plus parts (Mavs parts are Bertrans and whatever else, Knick parts are grab bag choice of Fournier/Burks/Walker, a pick, not sure if Mavs need "a youth" to do the deal

Knicks trade for Turner
Knicks draft non offensively limited C capable of hitting a jumper, picking and popping as well as rolling, instead of just a roll man.

I'm not advocating these trades, even though I did briefly stan for idea of Turner. Nor do I think they make the Knicks that great.
I think these are the beginning moves.

Knicks still then hold some assets and Randle as the basis for Zion if it ever happens where Zion becomes first guy not to pick up the qualifying offer etc etc.

Turner
Randle
Burks
Donovan
Brunson

We’d have to trade every other FRP til 2030, but Steve Mills’ Board of Directors Knicks would do it. Especially if we can pickup Andre Drummond too.

I know you hate Dolan, Knicks gonna chase vets blah blah blah.

I don't think they have the assets to go Brunson and Turner, no less Mitchell. In fact, if they were to somehow get Mitchell (which I think is highly unlikely) they won't have any assets left for anyone.

So, my GUESS is that the Knicks trade for a PG and draft a more versatile C OR trade for a more versatile C and draft a PG.

I don't like Randle, would prefer they would trade him, but this post is "what I think the Knicks might do, not what I hope they do, or what would piss me off if they do"