Eastern Conference | Round 1 | (2) Boston Celtics vs. (7) Brooklyn Nets (BOSTON WINS 4-0)

[Dainis]

RealGM, you think muh boy Blake is gonna play tomorrow? He still got somethin' to give tha game, ya dig?

Nah homie, Blake is done as a playa.

[Hello Brooklyn]

Nets went small last game for defensive purposes.

If they played Drummond more they wouldn't have rebounding issues.

Claxton for all his defensive prowess is not a very good rebounder.

Another solution is play Blake or LMA.

Still I think Nets gave up a ton of offensive rebounds which just showed a lack of awareness as well. Wasn't all the size issue.

LMA is meant for these types of games. I dont know what is Steve Nash thinking

LMA will probably get killed on defense if the Nets try to lean on him too much, especially if they play him at the same time as Drummond and he ends up on the perimeter having to switch onto Tatum, Brown, Smart, or White.

Udoka would have a field day with Aldridge on defense.

Especially with Tatum/Brown. Maybe you get away with it vs a different team.

Griffin should be playing though in my view. Or if not him then Kessler Edwards.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I'm sure the trust of his teammates and the power of positive thinking will prevent the Celtics from repeatedly targeting him with screens to create mismatches.

Well I am hoping that coaches and teammates trust will bring the best out of LMA. If the prime LMA shows up then Horford will be shut down. And Horford is the main reason Celtics are winning. KD and Kyrie are more than enough for Tatum and Brown. But Nets have no answer for Horford.

Prime Lma is back in Portland this lma will get basted and slow roasted on defense by pretty much any person on the floor for the Celtics.

He will score tho I won’t deny that and he’s been killing the Celtics on offense most of the time. He’ll also possibly help stave some rebounding but he’ll be pulled out to the perimeter on every action.

I don't think people have watched Aldridge in a while.

I'm not saying hes unplayable. But when you have a series with many quick, young guards they will hunt him constantly.

Whatever he gives you he will give up.

And the Nets are already not a good defensive team.

[DeRoma]

SWithout weighing in on the previous discussion, I think the answer to this particular question is threefold. First, Kyrie didn't really want to be in Boston in the first place, he just preferred Boston as an alternative to Cleveland because he couldn't force a trade to New York or LA. Second, he was resentful when the Celtics continued winning when he was injured. Third, he got into a bunch of personality clashes with multiple teammates and the coach. The 2019 Celtics season was super toxic and resulted in at least three veteran free agents choosing to leave (Kyrie, Horford, Marcus Morris), so he was really just the highest profile casualty of a REALLY bad locker room, only some of which was his fault.

Perhaps he also hated the fans while he was here, who knows. But based on everything we know, those three reasons make the most sense for him leaving.

Kyrie is moody. I am sure he didn’t like Boston, which makes no sense, but I think biggest reason is he did t like getting traded and told where to be.

Durant and Kyrie would be in Boston now with Tatum if kyrie stayed. But, you also have to realize the BS that Kyrie pulls doesn’t fly in boston.

They demand you play games here. I always feel like kyrie doesn’t want to play a full 82 game season because he feels it isn’t necessary. This year was perfect kyrie. Part time player, physically healthy for the only thing that matters - playoffs.

I don't think these are true at all... I think you need to put yourself in Kyrie's shoes in order for you to see it in his perspective. Why would he leave an established contender like the Cavs with Lebron leading the squad just to go to an unproven commodity like the Celtics? He didn't hate Boston whatsoever. He was actually enamored by the potential of this team given the logistics are practically perfect at that time.

The reason why Kyrie left the Cavs was because he already experienced getting a ring with Lebron's mindset in place. Now in order for him to keep himself motivated it was time for him to lead his own team with his style of play as the leading philosophy of the team. Thus wanting to go to Boston given that you guys are already a fringe playoffs squad with a decently clean cap space for flexibility and a substantial amount of talent given that the Nets gave you guys so many picks (as well as Philly). Point is Kyrie had the creative control for you squad and that's all he literally all he wants.

The unfortunate event that had happen was the fact that he got injured by the end of that season. And the Celtics young guys carried and overachieved in the playoffs that gave them the confidence that they can do more in a short amount of time. That's an anomaly given that rookies/sophomores (i.e. Brown/Tatum) should only be trying to prove to themselves that they belong in the league at the normal rate of sports developmental stage.

This is where the clash of perspective happened and why he left Boston in the first place. Kyrie had to share the creative control with Tatum/Brown while Kyrie has yet to establish himself as the alpha of the squad given that he was injured at the time there was meaningful games being played. Tatum/Brown felt they should have say and respectfully so, they should. Issue is, developmental stage is different for both parties. While Boston had to pick between the two. And if I were Boston I'd also pick Tatum/Brown 1000%.

It's the same thing with KD. He left OKC cause he wants to play with shooters (since he thought Westbrook was trash) and not realizing the backlash he'll get from joining a 70 win team. Now he joined a squad with a bunch of shooters where he has a secondary star that shares the same philosophy as him.

The point is the only thing that these superstars cares about is to leave a mark on history and be remembered. It's easy to see it that way given that they make millions and get an overwhelming amount of attention that a normal human needs. These are there priorities in order for them to keep going forward and give meaning to their lives.

A lot of what you're saying is not entirely incompatible with what I'm saying.

He left Cleveland because he wanted to prove he could be top dog on a championship team instead of being overshadowed by LeBron, and also he had a personality conflict with LeBron. His motivations were very well reported at the time.

He had a list of teams he originally wanted to go to. The Knicks were his preferred destination. He wanted to play in New York. He had a few other teams he said he would be OK joining - mostly teams that were expected to contend, if I remember correctly. He did not originally include Boston on this list. Eventually, he agreed to the Boston trade once the Celtics expressed interest, because they were the only playoff team willing to give up enough to get him. But at no point did he express interest in joining the Celtics except as an outlet for leaving the Cavaliers.

He did seem to enjoy being in Boston at first, but I would attribute that to the Celtics providing what he wanted when he left Cleveland - the team winning a lot of games, and the success being attributed to him. He immediately turned negative when the Celtics continued to win after his injury. He had some pretty dicey comments downplaying the young players' success, and he skipped watching game 7 of the eastern conference finals for an elective dental surgery because he straight up didn't want to watch the team succeed without him. Which I get, that's human, so I'm not trying to be overly harsh on him, but it's weird to tell the story of why Kyrie left Boston without identifying literally the first point where the relationship between him and the rest of the team started to sour.

I'm not sure what you mean by "creative control", but during the poisonous 2018-19 season, Kyrie was upset at both off court and on court perceived slights. He was (very publicly) upset that the Celtics allowed Tatum, Brown, and Rozier to play minutes he felt should have been played by complementary veterans and take shots that he felt he should have taken. But also he just had numerous well-reported personality conflicts multiple other players. No reason to just pretend that the personality conflicts weren't an issue, and just chalk up all his disagreements with the Celtics to basketball ones, especially because at this point this is a pattern of behavior for Kyrie on three separate teams.

Also, by Kyrie's own account, he had a death in the family early in that season if I remember correctly, and it influenced his desire to play closer to home. Personally I'm not going to discount this, but it goes back to my original point that the only reason he was willing to play in Boston in the first place was because the Cavs couldn't get a good enough offer to trade him to New York. New York is his home, and he wanted to play there.

Your insistence that he really wanted to be in Boston and that the only point of discontentment Kyrie had in Boston was a disagreement with management over whether to develop youth or add more experience is completely ahistorical. He was clearly deeply unhappy on the Celtics, and it was ultimately better for both sides that he left. I'm glad for him that he found a situation that makes him happy.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Yes, I believe he wanted to stay with Boston but then the young prospects developed rather quickly to the point that the coaching staff have to implement them to the system a lot more. That's really where the issue is. Kyrie just want to prove he can carry team. He felt at one point that Boston is a great place for him accomplished that goal (which is justifiable from the time he made the decision).

For me these reasoning doesn't equivalate the overwhelming amount of hate that he got from Boston. I mean it's to the point that Boston media created so many negative press against him to the point that they painted him as this insane person to general NBA fans. To me the worst thing you can really say against Kyrie is he is an immature, petty, shortsighted person. That's really about it. However, you guys should've been ready for this for a player that lives by the mamba mentality. I mean if you compare him to MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, he is actually a lot more down to earth to them. The difference is they were internationally loved cause a lot of the press coddled them (yes that includes Westbrook at one point but then analytics streamlined and people realized he is trash).

Then again, maybe i'm just a very lenient person since A lot of Nets fans hated Harden for what he did and I think his decision to leave was justified (i sided with him).

[Fencer reregistered]

I don't think these are true at all... I think you need to put yourself in Kyrie's shoes in order for you to see it in his perspective. Why would he leave an established contender like the Cavs with Lebron leading the squad just to go to an unproven commodity like the Celtics? He didn't hate Boston whatsoever. He was actually enamored by the potential of this team given the logistics are practically perfect at that time.

The reason why Kyrie left the Cavs was because he already experienced getting a ring with Lebron's mindset in place. Now in order for him to keep himself motivated it was time for him to lead his own team with his style of play as the leading philosophy of the team. Thus wanting to go to Boston given that you guys are already a fringe playoffs squad with a decently clean cap space for flexibility and a substantial amount of talent given that the Nets gave you guys so many picks (as well as Philly). Point is Kyrie had the creative control for you squad and that's all he literally all he wants.

The unfortunate event that had happen was the fact that he got injured by the end of that season. And the Celtics young guys carried and overachieved in the playoffs that gave them the confidence that they can do more in a short amount of time. That's an anomaly given that rookies/sophomores (i.e. Brown/Tatum) should only be trying to prove to themselves that they belong in the league at the normal rate of sports developmental stage.

This is where the clash of perspective happened and why he left Boston in the first place. Kyrie had to share the creative control with Tatum/Brown while Kyrie has yet to establish himself as the alpha of the squad given that he was injured at the time there was meaningful games being played. Tatum/Brown felt they should have say and respectfully so, they should. Issue is, developmental stage is different for both parties. While Boston had to pick between the two. And if I were Boston I'd also pick Tatum/Brown 1000%.

It's the same thing with KD. He left OKC cause he wants to play with shooters (since he thought Westbrook was trash) and not realizing the backlash he'll get from joining a 70 win team. Now he joined a squad with a bunch of shooters where he has a secondary star that shares the same philosophy as him.

The point is the only thing that these superstars cares about is to leave a mark on history and be remembered. It's easy to see it that way given that they make millions and get an overwhelming amount of attention that a normal human needs. These are there priorities in order for them to keep going forward and give meaning to their lives.

A lot of what you're saying is not entirely incompatible with what I'm saying.

He left Cleveland because he wanted to prove he could be top dog on a championship team instead of being overshadowed by LeBron, and also he had a personality conflict with LeBron. His motivations were very well reported at the time.

He had a list of teams he originally wanted to go to. The Knicks were his preferred destination. He wanted to play in New York. He had a few other teams he said he would be OK joining - mostly teams that were expected to contend, if I remember correctly. He did not originally include Boston on this list. Eventually, he agreed to the Boston trade once the Celtics expressed interest, because they were the only playoff team willing to give up enough to get him. But at no point did he express interest in joining the Celtics except as an outlet for leaving the Cavaliers.

He did seem to enjoy being in Boston at first, but I would attribute that to the Celtics providing what he wanted when he left Cleveland - the team winning a lot of games, and the success being attributed to him. He immediately turned negative when the Celtics continued to win after his injury. He had some pretty dicey comments downplaying the young players' success, and he skipped watching game 7 of the eastern conference finals for an elective dental surgery because he straight up didn't want to watch the team succeed without him. Which I get, that's human, so I'm not trying to be overly harsh on him, but it's weird to tell the story of why Kyrie left Boston without identifying literally the first point where the relationship between him and the rest of the team started to sour.

I'm not sure what you mean by "creative control", but during the poisonous 2018-19 season, Kyrie was upset at both off court and on court perceived slights. He was (very publicly) upset that the Celtics allowed Tatum, Brown, and Rozier to play minutes he felt should have been played by complementary veterans and take shots that he felt he should have taken. But also he just had numerous well-reported personality conflicts multiple other players. No reason to just pretend that the personality conflicts weren't an issue, and just chalk up all his disagreements with the Celtics to basketball ones, especially because at this point this is a pattern of behavior for Kyrie on three separate teams.

Also, by Kyrie's own account, he had a death in the family early in that season if I remember correctly, and it influenced his desire to play closer to home. Personally I'm not going to discount this, but it goes back to my original point that the only reason he was willing to play in Boston in the first place was because the Cavs couldn't get a good enough offer to trade him to New York. New York is his home, and he wanted to play there.

Your insistence that he really wanted to be in Boston and that the only point of discontentment Kyrie had in Boston was a disagreement with management over whether to develop youth or add more experience is completely ahistorical. He was clearly deeply unhappy on the Celtics, and it was ultimately better for both sides that he left. I'm glad for him that he found a situation that makes him happy.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Yes, I believe he wanted to stay with Boston but then the young prospects developed rather quickly to the point that the coaching staff have to implement them to the system a lot more. That's really where the issue is. Kyrie just want to prove he can carry team. He felt at one point that Boston is a great place for him accomplished that goal (which is justifiable from the time he made the decision).

For me these reasoning doesn't equivalate the overwhelming amount of hate that he got from Boston. I mean it's to the point that Boston media created so many negative press against him to the point that they painted him as this insane person to general NBA fans. To me the worst thing you can really say against Kyrie is he is an immature, petty, shortsighted person. That's really about it. However, you guys should've been ready for this for a player that lives by the mamba mentality. I mean if you compare him to MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, he is actually a lot more down to earth to them. The difference is they were internationally loved cause a lot of the press coddled them (yes that includes Westbrook at one point but then analytics streamlined and people realized he is trash).

Then again, maybe i'm just a very lenient person since A lot of Nets fans hated Harden for what he did and I think his decision to leave was justified (i sided with him).

Boston also has a lot of scientists, engineers, etc.

Not a lot of love for the flat-earth anti-vaxxer from that crowd.

[Slax]

I don't think these are true at all... I think you need to put yourself in Kyrie's shoes in order for you to see it in his perspective. Why would he leave an established contender like the Cavs with Lebron leading the squad just to go to an unproven commodity like the Celtics? He didn't hate Boston whatsoever. He was actually enamored by the potential of this team given the logistics are practically perfect at that time.

The reason why Kyrie left the Cavs was because he already experienced getting a ring with Lebron's mindset in place. Now in order for him to keep himself motivated it was time for him to lead his own team with his style of play as the leading philosophy of the team. Thus wanting to go to Boston given that you guys are already a fringe playoffs squad with a decently clean cap space for flexibility and a substantial amount of talent given that the Nets gave you guys so many picks (as well as Philly). Point is Kyrie had the creative control for you squad and that's all he literally all he wants.

The unfortunate event that had happen was the fact that he got injured by the end of that season. And the Celtics young guys carried and overachieved in the playoffs that gave them the confidence that they can do more in a short amount of time. That's an anomaly given that rookies/sophomores (i.e. Brown/Tatum) should only be trying to prove to themselves that they belong in the league at the normal rate of sports developmental stage.

This is where the clash of perspective happened and why he left Boston in the first place. Kyrie had to share the creative control with Tatum/Brown while Kyrie has yet to establish himself as the alpha of the squad given that he was injured at the time there was meaningful games being played. Tatum/Brown felt they should have say and respectfully so, they should. Issue is, developmental stage is different for both parties. While Boston had to pick between the two. And if I were Boston I'd also pick Tatum/Brown 1000%.

It's the same thing with KD. He left OKC cause he wants to play with shooters (since he thought Westbrook was trash) and not realizing the backlash he'll get from joining a 70 win team. Now he joined a squad with a bunch of shooters where he has a secondary star that shares the same philosophy as him.

The point is the only thing that these superstars cares about is to leave a mark on history and be remembered. It's easy to see it that way given that they make millions and get an overwhelming amount of attention that a normal human needs. These are there priorities in order for them to keep going forward and give meaning to their lives.

A lot of what you're saying is not entirely incompatible with what I'm saying.

He left Cleveland because he wanted to prove he could be top dog on a championship team instead of being overshadowed by LeBron, and also he had a personality conflict with LeBron. His motivations were very well reported at the time.

He had a list of teams he originally wanted to go to. The Knicks were his preferred destination. He wanted to play in New York. He had a few other teams he said he would be OK joining - mostly teams that were expected to contend, if I remember correctly. He did not originally include Boston on this list. Eventually, he agreed to the Boston trade once the Celtics expressed interest, because they were the only playoff team willing to give up enough to get him. But at no point did he express interest in joining the Celtics except as an outlet for leaving the Cavaliers.

He did seem to enjoy being in Boston at first, but I would attribute that to the Celtics providing what he wanted when he left Cleveland - the team winning a lot of games, and the success being attributed to him. He immediately turned negative when the Celtics continued to win after his injury. He had some pretty dicey comments downplaying the young players' success, and he skipped watching game 7 of the eastern conference finals for an elective dental surgery because he straight up didn't want to watch the team succeed without him. Which I get, that's human, so I'm not trying to be overly harsh on him, but it's weird to tell the story of why Kyrie left Boston without identifying literally the first point where the relationship between him and the rest of the team started to sour.

I'm not sure what you mean by "creative control", but during the poisonous 2018-19 season, Kyrie was upset at both off court and on court perceived slights. He was (very publicly) upset that the Celtics allowed Tatum, Brown, and Rozier to play minutes he felt should have been played by complementary veterans and take shots that he felt he should have taken. But also he just had numerous well-reported personality conflicts multiple other players. No reason to just pretend that the personality conflicts weren't an issue, and just chalk up all his disagreements with the Celtics to basketball ones, especially because at this point this is a pattern of behavior for Kyrie on three separate teams.

Also, by Kyrie's own account, he had a death in the family early in that season if I remember correctly, and it influenced his desire to play closer to home. Personally I'm not going to discount this, but it goes back to my original point that the only reason he was willing to play in Boston in the first place was because the Cavs couldn't get a good enough offer to trade him to New York. New York is his home, and he wanted to play there.

Your insistence that he really wanted to be in Boston and that the only point of discontentment Kyrie had in Boston was a disagreement with management over whether to develop youth or add more experience is completely ahistorical. He was clearly deeply unhappy on the Celtics, and it was ultimately better for both sides that he left. I'm glad for him that he found a situation that makes him happy.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Yes, I believe he wanted to stay with Boston but then the young prospects developed rather quickly to the point that the coaching staff have to implement them to the system a lot more. That's really where the issue is. Kyrie just want to prove he can carry team. He felt at one point that Boston is a great place for him accomplished that goal (which is justifiable from the time he made the decision).

For me these reasoning doesn't equivalate the overwhelming amount of hate that he got from Boston. I mean it's to the point that Boston media created so many negative press against him to the point that they painted him as this insane person to general NBA fans. To me the worst thing you can really say against Kyrie is he is an immature, petty, shortsighted person. That's really about it. However, you guys should've been ready for this for a player that lives by the mamba mentality. I mean if you compare him to MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, he is actually a lot more down to earth to them. The difference is they were internationally loved cause a lot of the press coddled them (yes that includes Westbrook at one point but then analytics streamlined and people realized he is trash).

Then again, maybe i'm just a very lenient person since A lot of Nets fans hated Harden for what he did and I think his decision to leave was justified (i sided with him).

I feel like you're being naive if you felt like there was any chance any fan base would have a mutually amicable split after all the stuff he did while he was with the Celtics, how he left, and then the way he has repeatedly taken jabs at the Celtics organization and fans since he left. bisme summarized some of it here, but I think it actually undersells what a weird whirlwind of negativity the whole Kyrie experience was for Boston: viewtopic.php?p=98271162#p98271162. I doubt Kyrie intended to piss off Boston fans while he was here and the way he left, rather I think he's just a self absorbed dude with very little self awareness and maturity and so he acted in ways that caused animosity toward him both by teammates and fans to spiral without thinking about it. The intensity with which a lot of fans reacted was over the top, but at the same time it was inevitable and justified that there are lingering negative feelings towards him.

Anyway, I don't hold any personal resentment toward him, but Kyrie makes a fun villain for the Celtics, and I enjoy rooting against him because of that. He fills a gap after LeBron moved west. And unless he's dumb as rocks or completely unable to control his actions, to some extent he must enjoy the negative attention, because he acts the heel when he plays in Boston.

[AussieCeltic]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

you realise that Horford played (maybe) the best game of his career?

Wasn’t even close to his best game.

I mean he had a 20/15/5 game only 3 weeks ago against the Grizzlies. He’s completely stepped up since Rob went down.

Don’t get me wrong, he was better than usual but a lot of that has to do with the Nets weak front court. If you’re relying on Drummond and Claxton, Horford wins that battle every game.

[duppyy]

F kyrie chants during red sox game lol. Relentless boston fans.

[Tha King]

The way the Celtics were defending Durant reminded me of the old Grizzlies and Warriors playoff defenses against him. Don't think this is a defense where constant multiple dribble iso scoring will be consistently effective

What also stood out were the 3 assists and 6 turnovers along with Curry only having 7 FG attempts and Mills 1. The Celtics switching defense can make it difficult for the role players to get involved so interested to see if KD can be an effective playmaker in this series.

Close game 1 but think the Celtics could come away even more confident as Kyrie's near 40 points on a ridiculous 81% TS masked quite a bit of issues for the Nets.

[Marvin Martian]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

They have bigger wings. Nash just isn't playing them for some reason

[DeRoma]

A lot of what you're saying is not entirely incompatible with what I'm saying.

He left Cleveland because he wanted to prove he could be top dog on a championship team instead of being overshadowed by LeBron, and also he had a personality conflict with LeBron. His motivations were very well reported at the time.

He had a list of teams he originally wanted to go to. The Knicks were his preferred destination. He wanted to play in New York. He had a few other teams he said he would be OK joining - mostly teams that were expected to contend, if I remember correctly. He did not originally include Boston on this list. Eventually, he agreed to the Boston trade once the Celtics expressed interest, because they were the only playoff team willing to give up enough to get him. But at no point did he express interest in joining the Celtics except as an outlet for leaving the Cavaliers.

He did seem to enjoy being in Boston at first, but I would attribute that to the Celtics providing what he wanted when he left Cleveland - the team winning a lot of games, and the success being attributed to him. He immediately turned negative when the Celtics continued to win after his injury. He had some pretty dicey comments downplaying the young players' success, and he skipped watching game 7 of the eastern conference finals for an elective dental surgery because he straight up didn't want to watch the team succeed without him. Which I get, that's human, so I'm not trying to be overly harsh on him, but it's weird to tell the story of why Kyrie left Boston without identifying literally the first point where the relationship between him and the rest of the team started to sour.

I'm not sure what you mean by "creative control", but during the poisonous 2018-19 season, Kyrie was upset at both off court and on court perceived slights. He was (very publicly) upset that the Celtics allowed Tatum, Brown, and Rozier to play minutes he felt should have been played by complementary veterans and take shots that he felt he should have taken. But also he just had numerous well-reported personality conflicts multiple other players. No reason to just pretend that the personality conflicts weren't an issue, and just chalk up all his disagreements with the Celtics to basketball ones, especially because at this point this is a pattern of behavior for Kyrie on three separate teams.

Also, by Kyrie's own account, he had a death in the family early in that season if I remember correctly, and it influenced his desire to play closer to home. Personally I'm not going to discount this, but it goes back to my original point that the only reason he was willing to play in Boston in the first place was because the Cavs couldn't get a good enough offer to trade him to New York. New York is his home, and he wanted to play there.

Your insistence that he really wanted to be in Boston and that the only point of discontentment Kyrie had in Boston was a disagreement with management over whether to develop youth or add more experience is completely ahistorical. He was clearly deeply unhappy on the Celtics, and it was ultimately better for both sides that he left. I'm glad for him that he found a situation that makes him happy.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Yes, I believe he wanted to stay with Boston but then the young prospects developed rather quickly to the point that the coaching staff have to implement them to the system a lot more. That's really where the issue is. Kyrie just want to prove he can carry team. He felt at one point that Boston is a great place for him accomplished that goal (which is justifiable from the time he made the decision).

For me these reasoning doesn't equivalate the overwhelming amount of hate that he got from Boston. I mean it's to the point that Boston media created so many negative press against him to the point that they painted him as this insane person to general NBA fans. To me the worst thing you can really say against Kyrie is he is an immature, petty, shortsighted person. That's really about it. However, you guys should've been ready for this for a player that lives by the mamba mentality. I mean if you compare him to MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, he is actually a lot more down to earth to them. The difference is they were internationally loved cause a lot of the press coddled them (yes that includes Westbrook at one point but then analytics streamlined and people realized he is trash).

Then again, maybe i'm just a very lenient person since A lot of Nets fans hated Harden for what he did and I think his decision to leave was justified (i sided with him).

I feel like you're being naive if you felt like there was any chance any fan base would have a mutually amicable split after all the stuff he did while he was with the Celtics, how he left, and then the way he has repeatedly taken jabs at the Celtics organization and fans since he left. bisme summarized some of it here, but I think it actually undersells what a weird whirlwind of negativity the whole Kyrie experience was for Boston: viewtopic.php?p=98271162#p98271162. I doubt Kyrie intended to piss off Boston fans while he was here and the way he left, rather I think he's just a self absorbed dude with very little self awareness and maturity and so he acted in ways that caused animosity toward him both by teammates and fans to spiral without thinking about it. The intensity with which a lot of fans reacted was over the top, but at the same time it was inevitable and justified that there are lingering negative feelings towards him.

Anyway, I don't hold any personal resentment toward him, but Kyrie makes a fun villain for the Celtics, and I enjoy rooting against him because of that. He fills a gap after LeBron moved west. And unless he's dumb as rocks or completely unable to control his actions, to some extent he must enjoy the negative attention, because he acts the heel when he plays in Boston.

I don't expect you guys not to hate the guy. Obviously, any normal person would feel some sort of discontent towards him. What I'm pointing out is the OVERWHELMING amount of hate. Celtics are hating him like he is free agent Lebron made a show about announcing his decision just to say he is leaving. He also didn't fake an injury for half a season to lower his value so he can play with other superstar like what Vince Carter did to Toronto(Reminder we are talking about King James and Air Canada in comparison to Kyrie). Kyrie was just an unproven superstar, that just wants to be in top 10 player conversation, signed with the Celtics in the middle of his career, had a bunch of disagreements with his colleagues and left a couple years after. Yet, it's been 3 years and the general fans are still showing the same type of energy. Boston fans and the media are also the ones instigating at him but when he retaliate Boston fans are acting so hurt. Which is basically narcissism in itself. Maybe it's the Boston Media and how it influences the mentality to think this way. Then again your influencers are really loyal towards the Celtics and maybe it's due to the historical success Boston have. I don't see this as a Nets fan and I'm sure majority of the NBA teams also don't see this. Funny part is, you also didn't see this with Cleveland since IMO he did Cleveland way worse than what he did to Boston.

*I wanna make sure to say i'm not pointing at you since i think you have a good attitude about the whole thing I'm talking about majority of the fans*.

[Slax]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

They have bigger wings. Nash just isn't playing them for some reason

Only Kessler Edwards, which... look, I think the Nets should probably take a shot on giving him minutes, it might help with the defense a little, but he's not going to fix the rebounding.

[DarkXaero]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

They have bigger wings. Nash just isn't playing them for some reason

Who are we talking about here? Kessler Edwards?

[KIRAG]

I have a feeling we will see a lot of facilitating from Kyrie tomorrow with a sprinke of getting his own shots and to some extent Durant too so the Celtics better be ready to defend Dragic, Curry, Mills and the Nets bigs. Kyrie had some nice dimes to KD and other teammates last game that resulted in buckets so I expect the Nets to make that adjustment in tomorrow's game. Interested to know if the Cs will do anything differently from the last game.

[Triple M]

I know that Brooklyn has 7fters in Drummond and Durant also 6'11 Claxton, but it seems like Boston plays bigger. There were times where there was 3 guys 6'4 and under while the Celtics rotation has 2 guys under 6'4 in total. Also, the fact that they only have 1 wing makes it hard for them to match up at times, and where the Harris injury is glaring.

[ajones9219]

BKN really needs to start Claxton if they want to stand a chance imo. Drummond is going to get abused every game by Boston. The matchup is just bad for him.

[jfs1000d]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

Nets went small last game for defensive purposes.

If they played Drummond more they wouldn't have rebounding issues.

Claxton for all his defensive prowess is not a very good rebounder.

Another solution is play Blake or LMA.

Still I think Nets gave up a ton of offensive rebounds which just showed a lack of awareness as well. Wasn't all the size issue.

Drummond is unplayable in this series.


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[Slax]

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Yes, I believe he wanted to stay with Boston but then the young prospects developed rather quickly to the point that the coaching staff have to implement them to the system a lot more. That's really where the issue is. Kyrie just want to prove he can carry team. He felt at one point that Boston is a great place for him accomplished that goal (which is justifiable from the time he made the decision).

For me these reasoning doesn't equivalate the overwhelming amount of hate that he got from Boston. I mean it's to the point that Boston media created so many negative press against him to the point that they painted him as this insane person to general NBA fans. To me the worst thing you can really say against Kyrie is he is an immature, petty, shortsighted person. That's really about it. However, you guys should've been ready for this for a player that lives by the mamba mentality. I mean if you compare him to MJ, Kobe, Westbrook, he is actually a lot more down to earth to them. The difference is they were internationally loved cause a lot of the press coddled them (yes that includes Westbrook at one point but then analytics streamlined and people realized he is trash).

Then again, maybe i'm just a very lenient person since A lot of Nets fans hated Harden for what he did and I think his decision to leave was justified (i sided with him).

I feel like you're being naive if you felt like there was any chance any fan base would have a mutually amicable split after all the stuff he did while he was with the Celtics, how he left, and then the way he has repeatedly taken jabs at the Celtics organization and fans since he left. bisme summarized some of it here, but I think it actually undersells what a weird whirlwind of negativity the whole Kyrie experience was for Boston: viewtopic.php?p=98271162#p98271162. I doubt Kyrie intended to piss off Boston fans while he was here and the way he left, rather I think he's just a self absorbed dude with very little self awareness and maturity and so he acted in ways that caused animosity toward him both by teammates and fans to spiral without thinking about it. The intensity with which a lot of fans reacted was over the top, but at the same time it was inevitable and justified that there are lingering negative feelings towards him.

Anyway, I don't hold any personal resentment toward him, but Kyrie makes a fun villain for the Celtics, and I enjoy rooting against him because of that. He fills a gap after LeBron moved west. And unless he's dumb as rocks or completely unable to control his actions, to some extent he must enjoy the negative attention, because he acts the heel when he plays in Boston.

I don't expect you guys not to hate the guy. Obviously, any normal person would feel some sort of discontent towards him. What I'm pointing out is the OVERWHELMING amount of hate. Celtics are hating him like he is free agent Lebron made a show about announcing his decision just to say he is leaving. He also didn't fake an injury for half a season to lower his value so he can play with other superstar like what Vince Carter did to Toronto(Reminder we are talking about King James and Air Canada in comparison to Kyrie). Kyrie was just an unproven superstar, that just wants to be in top 10 player conversation, signed with the Celtics in the middle of his career, had a bunch of disagreements with his colleagues and left a couple years after. Yet, it's been 3 years and the general fans are still showing the same type of energy. Boston fans and the media are also the ones instigating at him but when he retaliate Boston fans are acting so hurt. Which is basically narcissism in itself. Maybe it's the Boston Media and how it influences the mentality to think this way. Then again your influencers are really loyal towards the Celtics and maybe it's due to the historical success Boston have. I don't see this as a Nets fan and I'm sure majority of the NBA teams also don't see this. Funny part is, you also didn't see this with Cleveland since IMO he did Cleveland way worse than what he did to Boston.

*I wanna make sure to say i'm not pointing at you since i think you have a good attitude about the whole thing I'm talking about majority of the fans*.

To be crystal clear, the biggest reason Celtics fans have animosity toward Kyrie is probably the believe that as a result of his already having mentally checked out of Boston before the all star break, he mailed it in during the playoffs against the Bucks and knowingly played in a way that prevented the team from having a chance at winning during a season when the Celtics had the talent to make a deep run. I don't really care to compare it to things other players have done, but what he did was significantly more damaging than just butting heads with teammates and then leaving after hitting free agency a la Jimmy Butler.

Editing to add, rehashing our **** 2019 season to rag on people over the negative things that happened then isn't really what I want to do with my time, so I'm probably going to bounce out of this particular discussion soon. I do appreciate the civil tone though, it's nice just having a discussion with a fan of an opposing team without it being adversarial or anything.

[jfs1000d]

I know that Brooklyn has 7fters in Drummond and Durant also 6'11 Claxton, but it seems like Boston plays bigger. There were times where there was 3 guys 6'4 and under while the Celtics rotation has 2 guys under 6'4 in total. Also, the fact that they only have 1 wing makes it hard for them to match up at times, and where the Harris injury is glaring.

Boston is way bigger and longer.

I think Claxton gotta play 30 minutes. Celtics will roast Drummond on defense.

Nets have defense problem. Kyrie a terrible defender and does t pressure the ball. That allows smart to get o the paint. Drummond doesn’t protect rim. Bad combination.

Brown a good defender, as is Durant. But lord, they get no ball pressure with an Irving/curry backcourt.


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[Marvin Martian]

Something under-discussed in the last thread: the Nets' lack of size is REALLY hurting them on the glass. Celtics dominated the boards, and I'm not really sure how the Nets can fix that without playing Drummond and Claxton together, which would create all sorts of other problems for them. Anything is a difference-maker in such a close game, and clearly the Celtics having actual big men - and especially Horford - who can both crash the boards and play versatile defense and mesh together on offense gave the Nets a lot of trouble. And that Celtics advantage will only widen if Rob Williams can come back healthy enough to provide quality minutes later in the series.

They have bigger wings. Nash just isn't playing them for some reason

Who are we talking about here? Kessler Edwards?

And Cam Thomas. Not ideal options but far better than playing Mills and Curry who are worthless if they aren't scoring at least 15 points to offset the poor defense and rebounding