Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act!

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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#141 » by alevirfe » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:38 pm

KembaWalker wrote:
Vampirate wrote:
KembaWalker wrote:its one thing to celebrate a guy that actively disliked them and their city and immediately bailed over a long term developed guy that gave it all to your franchise and loved the city when he gets you a ring. its awkward but understandable, sure

whats weird is actively hating the other dude for having some minor degree of success somewhere else and tearing him down at every opportunity


Raptor fans gave him a standing ovation when he was on the spurs in his return game.

Awesome guy.

However, and I really did thought he'd turn things around on the Spurs, we all said 'wait until the playoffs' for a reason. He's already proven himself in the regular season even before he went to the Spurs, not so much in the playoffs.

Also, a lot of non Raptor fans are mocking him so don't just put this all on us.


yeah but you guys have a currently 4+ page thread on your board just for mocking him. its a bad look


the thing is there were a lot of Demar haters when he was on the Raps too. a thread like that is just those same posters having their curtain call

MOST Raps fans loved Demar on our team and still support him today
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bongmarley wrote:I thought he was supposed to be an elite defender. He is horrible. On the perimeter he gets blown by everytime Its really bad
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#142 » by Kreamy » Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:46 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:if you swapped dechoke to kawhi the bulls would easily win a title. masai didnt blink an eye when he gave up for a 6month rental.
toronto and spurs are lucky they got rid of him and replaced with better players.


Let's not get carried away :D
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#143 » by tsherkin » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:02 pm

KenoP13 wrote:
Lowry played awful in three of those games. Including the one that went to OT.

Here are their core statistics for the series:

Lowry PPG 23.4 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.4 Assist 5.9

Derozan PPG 22.1 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.6 Assists 2.1


Quick note. Lowry's FG% was 40.1% in the 2016 Miami series; it was his 3P% that was 38.8% in the series against the Heat. He was taking 7 3PA/g and 19.6 FGA/g in that series, so of course his raw FG% was going to be pretty low. He also averaged 6.29 FTA/g at 79.5%. His eFG% was 47.1% and his TS% was 52.4%. A rough series, to be sure; a classic example of what happens when you rely heavily on volume 3pt shooting and aren't particularly remarkable beneath the arc.

By contrast, however, Demar was taking 21.7 FGA/g at 39.1% and 44.4% TS (7.29 FTA/g at 70.6%). If you're chasing scoring efficiency, there was a large gap between the two because Demar was incompetent from the field (in that specific series) and shooting far worse than usual at the foul line. That's not the series to really go after Lowry. Kyle had a rough series, but in the close-out game, he was also the one who went 11-20 from the field, 5/7 from 3 and 8/11 from the line while Demar went 12/29 and 4/7. And we still blew them out of the water as a result of the 4th quarter, during which Demar's sole contribution was hitting one jumper, and in which Lowry had 7 points, an assist and two rebounds. Food for thought.

Lowry definitely shoulders some blame for shooting poorly through much of the series, but he closed out Miami, was about as effective as usual as our playmaker and was a viable threat from 3 across the breadth of the series. Derozan was basically useless apart from game 5.

Baski wrote:True. I really liked what I saw from the Bulls in game 1 and admittedly the difference between a win and a loss was Demar's performance. But then again they're playing the defending champs who have spent years perfecting their defensive system with a relatively consistent core. My thinking is that Demar, and the entire Bulls team was hit hard with how "real" PO defense is compared to RS (Yes Demar should be used to it by now, but he doesn't seem to have the instinctual ability to switch to PO mode that other players have). It was ugly for both teams so it very well could be first game jitters. Pretty reasonable to expect better shooting from both sides over the course of the series.


Yes, it's not like they were playing a scrub team, for sure. They were actually +6 on the Bucks after the first quarter, they just dug themselves a huge hole in the opening quarter and couldn't climb out of it. After digging a 13-point hole in the first, that this ended as a 3-possession game is kind of impressive. If Lavine OR Derozan had played just a little better, this one was within reach. Or had anyone on the team been able to hit a damned 3. Also, someone should probably bagtag Vucevic for taking 10 3s, because he also shot a ton and sucked ass at it. But yeah. This one wasn't as brutal a destruction as everyone seems to be implying. This was a winnable game. Now, surely, if Chicago can hit their stride, so too can Milwaukee, so we shall see what happens, but there's no sense writing them off yet.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#144 » by vobot » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:36 pm

PD28 wrote:Don't group all Raptors fan in this hater boat. I still believe he will turn it around, it's only one game.

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Exactly. I see so many comments here about raptors fans happy to see him fail. Everyone I know who followed the raptors during his time here is rooting hard for the guy this season. Maybe its just the vocal minority of the same posters who skew the perception of our fanbase. People seem to have unreal expectations out of him and then roast him when he doesn't meet them.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#145 » by DroseReturnChi » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:39 am

Kreamy wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:if you swapped dechoke to kawhi the bulls would easily win a title. masai didnt blink an eye when he gave up for a 6month rental.
toronto and spurs are lucky they got rid of him and replaced with better players.


Let's not get carried away :D


this is a joke right? your mocking kawhi after getting carried otherwise irrelevant for decades with DD?
if DD was any good why didnt Masai sign him and instead gave the same deal to GTJ? and yes im talking abt rap version of kawhi inserted this yr.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#146 » by Kreamy » Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:53 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
Kreamy wrote:
DroseReturnChi wrote:if you swapped dechoke to kawhi the bulls would easily win a title. masai didnt blink an eye when he gave up for a 6month rental.
toronto and spurs are lucky they got rid of him and replaced with better players.


Let's not get carried away :D


this is a joke right? your mocking kawhi after getting carried otherwise irrelevant for decades with DD?
if DD was any good why didnt Masai sign him and instead gave the same deal to GTJ? and yes im talking abt rap version of kawhi inserted this yr.


Kawhi joined a Raptors team that won 59 games and finished top of the Eastern Conference the year before. How many games did the Bulls win last year? Lol GTFO.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#147 » by KenoP13 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:35 am

SonicMcMahon wrote:
KenoP13 wrote:
vado wrote:
You're cherry picking games. We don't get past the Heat in 2016 without Lowry. Lowry was a better all around player than Demar during his time as a Raptor. There are reasons why Demar was getting benched at the end of his Raptors career.


Lowry played awful in three of those games. Including the one that went to OT.

Here are their core statistics for the series:

Lowry PPG 23.4 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.4 Assist 5.9

Derozan PPG 22.1 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.6 Assists 2.1

And I could say the exact same thing in the 2016-2017 series against Milwaukee.. Derozan had 3 27+ scoring games and we won 4-2. In one of the games we only scored 92 points and Derozan had 33. We would not have gotten past Milwaukee without his offensive output.


I'm not at all a Derozan hater or getting on this hate bandwagon - if the Bulls own the title and he was Finals MVP I'd be truly thrilled for the man. He's a hard-worker and a good dude by all accounts. And he does continue to build and improve his game: kudos.

And while both he and Lowry share some blame for offensive struggles (or 'choking') in the playoffs especially in the early 2010s... I just can't view them as equal offenders to the raps playoff woes...

Both struggled to score, but Lowry continued to do everything else: manage the game offensively, make the right pass, push the tempo at opportune times, get hot-hands going, dive for loose balls, take charges, make buckets when the offense was ice cold and direct the defense. (Among other less tangible things). Meanwhile, when Demar wasn't scoring, he did little else and he even took the rest of the offense out of is flow. He was often a net negative out there and it impacted team morale too.

I look at it this way, (via an albeit subjective measure): You were sometimes disappointed in Kyle's scoring, for sure. But when he was on the bench in a big game, you were begging for the team to hold it together til he got back in: "Get Kyle in! We're lost without him." With Demar, there were times you were skeptical whether he should even get those important mintues at times.



I agree 100%.. But, I am not willing to give Lowry a pass because he "hustled" He was our leading player. Playing like a decent controlled tempo point guard while **** the bed in scoring does not cut it.

It is what it is.. Personally, I think a large amount of the blame should go towards Casey. Raptors and Lowry looked miles better when Nurse finally took over as head coach.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#148 » by LoveMyRaps » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:37 am

TheHartBreakKid wrote:"come one, come all!" is a classic beginning to a thread title.


Yeah definitely tops "are we not finna"
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#149 » by KenoP13 » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:45 am

tsherkin wrote:
KenoP13 wrote:
Lowry played awful in three of those games. Including the one that went to OT.

Here are their core statistics for the series:

Lowry PPG 23.4 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.4 Assist 5.9

Derozan PPG 22.1 (fg 38.1%) Reb 5.6 Assists 2.1


Quick note. Lowry's FG% was 40.1% in the 2016 Miami series; it was his 3P% that was 38.8% in the series against the Heat. He was taking 7 3PA/g and 19.6 FGA/g in that series, so of course his raw FG% was going to be pretty low. He also averaged 6.29 FTA/g at 79.5%. His eFG% was 47.1% and his TS% was 52.4%. A rough series, to be sure; a classic example of what happens when you rely heavily on volume 3pt shooting and aren't particularly remarkable beneath the arc.

By contrast, however, Demar was taking 21.7 FGA/g at 39.1% and 44.4% TS (7.29 FTA/g at 70.6%). If you're chasing scoring efficiency, there was a large gap between the two because Demar was incompetent from the field (in that specific series) and shooting far worse than usual at the foul line. That's not the series to really go after Lowry. Kyle had a rough series, but in the close-out game, he was also the one who went 11-20 from the field, 5/7 from 3 and 8/11 from the line while Demar went 12/29 and 4/7. And we still blew them out of the water as a result of the 4th quarter, during which Demar's sole contribution was hitting one jumper, and in which Lowry had 7 points, an assist and two rebounds. Food for thought.

Lowry definitely shoulders some blame for shooting poorly through much of the series, but he closed out Miami, was about as effective as usual as our playmaker and was a viable threat from 3 across the breadth of the series. Derozan was basically useless apart from game 5.

Baski wrote:True. I really liked what I saw from the Bulls in game 1 and admittedly the difference between a win and a loss was Demar's performance. But then again they're playing the defending champs who have spent years perfecting their defensive system with a relatively consistent core. My thinking is that Demar, and the entire Bulls team was hit hard with how "real" PO defense is compared to RS (Yes Demar should be used to it by now, but he doesn't seem to have the instinctual ability to switch to PO mode that other players have). It was ugly for both teams so it very well could be first game jitters. Pretty reasonable to expect better shooting from both sides over the course of the series.


Yes, it's not like they were playing a scrub team, for sure. They were actually +6 on the Bucks after the first quarter, they just dug themselves a huge hole in the opening quarter and couldn't climb out of it. After digging a 13-point hole in the first, that this ended as a 3-possession game is kind of impressive. If Lavine OR Derozan had played just a little better, this one was within reach. Or had anyone on the team been able to hit a damned 3. Also, someone should probably bagtag Vucevic for taking 10 3s, because he also shot a ton and sucked ass at it. But yeah. This one wasn't as brutal a destruction as everyone seems to be implying. This was a winnable game. Now, surely, if Chicago can hit their stride, so too can Milwaukee, so we shall see what happens, but there's no sense writing them off yet.


I'm not sure where you are getting Lowry's stats against the Heat. Here is a direct link to the ESPN stats page https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3012/type/nba/year/2016

Also, I agree.. Lowry played better in the series. In general.. His tenure (pre Kawhi) should be viewed in a more positive light amongst fans.

But, if you take the totality of their performances in the playoffs.. Lowry **** the bed plenty of times too. Personally, the most infuriating one was against Milwaukee in 2017 playoffs. Scoring 10-12 points every game and taking the safest shots available. Meanwhile Derozan put up 27 points in three games. In two of those we scored 92 points or less. He really carried us in the series.

I agree with everything you said about DeRozan's performance against the Bulls. We'll see how they rebound in the second game. I definitely wouldn't write them off. One thing I would note is.. I think in the playoffs Derozan really benefits of having a good point guard feed him on the offensive end. He doesn't really have that right now.. It will be difficult for him to get going offensively in a slow mid court game solely relying on his mid range and he won't be able to get to the basket as easy as he does during the regular season.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#150 » by tsherkin » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:01 am

KenoP13 wrote:I'm not sure where you are getting Lowry's stats against the Heat. Here is a direct link to the ESPN stats page https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/3012/type/nba/year/2016


Basketball reference series summary.

But, if you take the totality of their performances in the playoffs.. Lowry **** the bed plenty of times too.


Yep. He's a high 3Pr player who (with few exceptions) doesn't stun with either volume or efficiency from under the arc. He's a 3pt-or-FTA kind of guy, so he usually has a crap FG%. That puts a cap on his overall value as a scorer, of course, and leads to many nights where he's off in terms of his shooting and thus mediocre at best in terms of his efficiency as well. As the real driver of our offense, he shoulders plenty of his own blame at times, absolutely. It's just that he typically did a lot more for the team than Demar did, on both ends of the court, so he tends to get a little more leeway on examination.

Demar averaged 23.5 ppg in that series, but yeah, Lowry only about 14.3. Identical TS%. Powell was big for us then. And yeah, Demar has definitely had some decent to good series performances for us. The Washington series comes to mind. He was pretty hot and cold, of course, but games like 2, 4 and 5 were really good. Wasn't much present for the close-out game, of course, but he still had three 30+-point nights for us in the series.

I agree with everything you said about DeRozan's performance against the Bulls. We'll see how they rebound in the second game. I definitely wouldn't write them off. One thing I would note is.. I think in the playoffs Derozan really benefits of having a good point guard feed him on the offensive end. He doesn't really have that right now.. It will be difficult for him to get going offensively in a slow mid court game solely relying on his mid range and he won't be able to get to the basket as easy as he does during the regular season.


Playoff Demar would definitely benefit from having a PG feeding him. When he's able to get away from spamming isolations on every set, he has a whole other set of skills that he can use. This is what I was talking about before. Prior to developing handles and extending his range a little bit, Demar was actually pretty good at just-in-time cuts and getting those weakside reversal isos and what have you for the quick move and all the stuff that required him to do a lot less creating off the dribble. He doesn't do nearly as much of that now as a more focal player, and it hurts him. I also agree with the slow mid-court game relying on the mid-range, that's going to generally hurt most players. There are some guys who can create well in that context, he just unfortunately isn't one of them.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#151 » by bearadonisdna » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:41 pm

TokeBulls wrote:6-25, 18 points. Dude single handedly shot the Bulls out of the game when they made a run and took the lead. Constantly forced long 2's. Hits the floor every time and complains about no fouls, is late getting back because of it.

Now I see why they call him DeMar DeFrozen! This loss is squarely on him. What a BUM.


This is bad fandom man.
The bulls have been a treadmill team since the whole board championed ayo as some kind of starting caliber player.
Its really typical for bulls fans to blame their best players and not the real flaws of the team.
Like coaching.
Bradley is probably the teams best interior defender and gets dnp for TT.
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Re: Come one, come all! See the marvelous DeMar DeFrozen and his disappearing act! 

Post#152 » by tsherkin » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:45 pm

bearadonisdna wrote:
TokeBulls wrote:6-25, 18 points. Dude single handedly shot the Bulls out of the game when they made a run and took the lead. Constantly forced long 2's. Hits the floor every time and complains about no fouls, is late getting back because of it.

Now I see why they call him DeMar DeFrozen! This loss is squarely on him. What a BUM.


This is bad fandom man.
The bulls have been a treadmill team since the whole board championed ayo as some kind of starting caliber player.
Its really typical for bulls fans to blame their best players and not the real flaws of the team.
Like coaching.
Bradley is probably the teams best interior defender and gets dnp for TT.



Coaching is a legitimate discussion point, but in a reasonably close game, him shooting <25% from the floor and wasting points at the line definitely hurt them, so that is also quite fair to discuss.
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#153 » by Dupp » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:49 am

:thinking:
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#154 » by Vampirate » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:51 am

We all know every good magic trick needs a setup.

Derozan disappeared in Game 1 so he could magically reappear in game 2.

What a slight of hand performance!

Jokes aside, great game Demar.
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#155 » by Jables » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:11 am

If DeRozan needs to score 40 every night for them to have a chance, the Jordan comparisons earlier in the year really need to come true!
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#156 » by tsherkin » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:17 am

Welp, there it is. Shots were falling for him tonight. He also got to the line and everything, this is the bounce-back game. Normalization. We'll see what happens in game 3, but this off-sets that first game reasonably nicely.
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#157 » by bebopdeluxe » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:20 am

Nice bounce-back and dagger shot.
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#158 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:23 am

TokeBulls wrote:Now I see why they call him DeMar DeFrozen! This loss is squarely on him. What a BUM.

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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#159 » by picc » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:25 am

DD went off. Hope this is a new beginning for him. Props where due.
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Re: DeRozan has an off game. Hopefully bounces back game 2. 

Post#160 » by Shock Defeat » Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:25 am

Weak ass move by the OP to change the thread title to something less critical.

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